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2012-11-01 9:12 AM

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Subject: Some run training advice.

So I have slowly built up my running from 0mpw to ~15-20mpw.  Here is my issue though currently I only run 3x a week.  Most of my runs are 5-7 miles now, which is fine (I'm not the fastest runner usually 9:30min/mile or so training 8:40min/mile race).  What I am wondering is how I should go about increasing my mileage.  If I should start running back to back days (currently I usually run MWF), or just continue to increase my mileage as is. 

If I do add another day (which I think I would prefer), should I scale back on my other runs a bit?  Adding an additional 5 mile or so run would definitely violate the '10% rule'.

FWIW I have a single 10 mile run under my belt, and am planning on a 1/2 marathon in May (have two choices haven't decided which one yet, maybe both? One is the beginning of May the other is at the end)

I guess I'm just looking for some good advice, I'm looking to increase my mpw to 30 or so (don't have a goal date I just would like 30mpw).  My logs are mostly up to date if that would help anyone out.

Thanks!



2012-11-01 9:19 AM
in reply to: #4478290

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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.

Start by keeping the mileage the same, but splitting it up so that you're adding another day. Maybe make that a 3-miler. Then start increasing one of the runs that isn't backed by a repeat day. After that one's back up, start putting the original 3 days back up where they were. Then you'll be at a solid 4 days a week.

Add a 5th day as you did the 4th. Rinse and repeat.

2012-11-01 4:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.

^^^^ That ^^^^ sounds like a smart plan to me.  I could also see putting in that 5th day even before the three 'original' days are back up to current distances.

The important point is that you should now increase frequency.  Don't be afraid of back to back running days.

2012-11-01 5:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.

The 10% addition per week is a recommended max. value.

If you haven't been very athletic before or are prone to injuries, you might be better of doing 5% increase per week.

The weekly mileage matters the most.

15 ~ 20mpw is a big gap.

Normally folks like their long run on Sat or Sun.

You may want to start that.

You could do:

T -4

W -3

T -3

S - 10

Then add miles on to the T-days until you are up to 5 miles, then add to the S day until you hit 13.

At that point I would add mileage to the other S day.

BUt for a HM you don;t need to run more then 4xweek.

Also mkae sure to never add more than 10%.

Put in a recovery week every 4th or 5th week, in that week you reduce weekly mileage by 20%.

The next week the 10% increase is based on mileage before the recovery week.

2012-11-01 6:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
I really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
2012-11-01 8:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.

Follow what bridert recommended. Keep mileage the same, add frequency. It will feel easy. Then build from there. Most of the time, if you feel that you *need* a rest day between runs, then you're probably running too hard.

One sentence summary, often heard here in some form: "Run often: mostly easy, sometimes hard".

If you want to read more, try reading about the BarryP run program. It's very simple, no frills, and quite effective. (And one of the things that it ensures: avoid having more than a third of your weekly mileage in any individual run.



2012-11-01 9:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
Snaaijer - 2012-11-01 6:55 PMI really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
Many half and full marathon plans do that. I'm doing RW marathon plan. This week for example is 3,4,3 then 12 on weekend. I would do what the others have said, and I had to realize this myself: run more. I'm up to 5 days a week, even if one day is a short 3 mile recovery run etc.
2012-11-01 9:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.

taylorz13 - 2012-11-01 10:19 PM
Snaaijer - 2012-11-01 6:55 PMI really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
Many half and full marathon plans do that. I'm doing RW marathon plan.

You are right. And those plans are risky. They help somebody to get through a (half-)marathon ... if they make it to the start-line uninjured.

2012-11-02 12:42 AM
in reply to: #4479754

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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
colinphillips - 2012-11-01 4:26 PM

taylorz13 - 2012-11-01 10:19 PM
Snaaijer - 2012-11-01 6:55 PMI really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
Many half and full marathon plans do that. I'm doing RW marathon plan.

You are right. And those plans are risky. They help somebody to get through a (half-)marathon ... if they make it to the start-line uninjured.

x2 

RW does have some good running plans, but just realize that not all of their plans are good.  A plan like 3,4,3,12 caters towards a beginner who isn't willing to put in the hard work it takes to properly prepare for a half marathon.  There are a lot of people that start out this way (that's also how I started out), so naturally RW wants to appeal to them.  And lets not forget that RW is in the business of making money.  The more people their plans appeal to (whether they are good plans or not) the more magazines they sell and the more traffic their websites get.

2012-11-02 12:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
colinphillips - 2012-11-01 9:26 PM

taylorz13 - 2012-11-01 10:19 PM
Snaaijer - 2012-11-01 6:55 PMI really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
Many half and full marathon plans do that. I'm doing RW marathon plan.

You are right. And those plans are risky. They help somebody to get through a (half-)marathon ... if they make it to the start-line uninjured.

I didn't.....and I'll never do that again.  I made it to the start line fine on my own in my first marathon.....the RW plan I did, with the long run being half of the weekly mileage was a joke for my 2nd.  Never again.

2012-11-02 5:35 AM
in reply to: #4479918

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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
tri808 - 2012-11-02 1:42 AM
colinphillips - 2012-11-01 4:26 PM

taylorz13 - 2012-11-01 10:19 PM
Snaaijer - 2012-11-01 6:55 PMI really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
Many half and full marathon plans do that. I'm doing RW marathon plan.

You are right. And those plans are risky. They help somebody to get through a (half-)marathon ... if they make it to the start-line uninjured.

x2 

RW does have some good running plans, but just realize that not all of their plans are good.  A plan like 3,4,3,12 caters towards a beginner who isn't willing to put in the hard work it takes to properly prepare for a half marathon.  There are a lot of people that start out this way (that's also how I started out), so naturally RW wants to appeal to them.  And lets not forget that RW is in the business of making money.  The more people their plans appeal to (whether they are good plans or not) the more magazines they sell and the more traffic their websites get.

 

Just like tri808 says. The scary thing is that  many plans that are built like that are always intended for beginers, bucket listers and 1st timers, the people who more often than not would benefit from a well thought out balanced plan.

I don't believe you will find a plan for any advanced stage runners (Hansons, McMillan, Daniels, Canova or an multitude of even semi decent coaches) that goes the route of stacking the long run.



2012-11-02 9:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
qrkid - 2012-11-02 5:35 AM
tri808 - 2012-11-02 1:42 AM
colinphillips - 2012-11-01 4:26 PM

taylorz13 - 2012-11-01 10:19 PM
Snaaijer - 2012-11-01 6:55 PMI really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
Many half and full marathon plans do that. I'm doing RW marathon plan.

You are right. And those plans are risky. They help somebody to get through a (half-)marathon ... if they make it to the start-line uninjured.

x2 

RW does have some good running plans, but just realize that not all of their plans are good.  A plan like 3,4,3,12 caters towards a beginner who isn't willing to put in the hard work it takes to properly prepare for a half marathon.  There are a lot of people that start out this way (that's also how I started out), so naturally RW wants to appeal to them.  And lets not forget that RW is in the business of making money.  The more people their plans appeal to (whether they are good plans or not) the more magazines they sell and the more traffic their websites get.

 

Just like tri808 says. The scary thing is that  many plans that are built like that are always intended for beginers, bucket listers and 1st timers, the people who more often than not would benefit from a well thought out balanced plan.

I don't believe you will find a plan for any advanced stage runners (Hansons, McMillan, Daniels, Canova or an multitude of even semi decent coaches) that goes the route of stacking the long run.

 

First off, thanks for the responses all some good info here to digest. I have to admit I do feel a bit uneasy about such a large difference in my long run and my short run.

There are so many running plans out there that they can be a bit intimidating.  Does anyone have one that the recommend?  I am willing, and want to put in the hard work that it takes to improve on my running.  I have come to far to through it all away by doing something stupid.  My first 1/2 marathon is still months away so I have plenty of time to do it right.

 

2012-11-02 9:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
qrkid - 2012-11-02 5:35 AM
tri808 - 2012-11-02 1:42 AM
colinphillips - 2012-11-01 4:26 PM

taylorz13 - 2012-11-01 10:19 PM
Snaaijer - 2012-11-01 6:55 PMI really wouldnt advise anyone to get 50% of their mileage from one long run.
Many half and full marathon plans do that. I'm doing RW marathon plan.

You are right. And those plans are risky. They help somebody to get through a (half-)marathon ... if they make it to the start-line uninjured.

x2 

RW does have some good running plans, but just realize that not all of their plans are good.  A plan like 3,4,3,12 caters towards a beginner who isn't willing to put in the hard work it takes to properly prepare for a half marathon.  There are a lot of people that start out this way (that's also how I started out), so naturally RW wants to appeal to them.  And lets not forget that RW is in the business of making money.  The more people their plans appeal to (whether they are good plans or not) the more magazines they sell and the more traffic their websites get.

 

Just like tri808 says. The scary thing is that  many plans that are built like that are always intended for beginers, bucket listers and 1st timers, the people who more often than not would benefit from a well thought out balanced plan.

I don't believe you will find a plan for any advanced stage runners (Hansons, McMillan, Daniels, Canova or an multitude of even semi decent coaches) that goes the route of stacking the long run.

This is probably exactly correct. The analyisis about RW plans is probably spot on. Makes sense.

My RW marathon plan is identical to the Hal Higdon plan is the Novice 1 "gentle" preparation for first marathon. I have a running background (never a marathon though) and so I am adding some miles AND short runs between those prescribed in the plan. My goad for my marathon is to finish as strong as i can with NO injury and frankly that's in the 4:30 range or more.

2012-11-02 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
Justin86 - 2012-11-02 10:06 AM 

There are so many running plans out there that they can be a bit intimidating.  Does anyone have one that the recommend?  I am willing, and want to put in the hard work that it takes to improve on my running.  I have come to far to through it all away by doing something stupid.  My first 1/2 marathon is still months away so I have plenty of time to do it right.

You're being smart.  That's good to see.

Check out this thread, and the links in the third or so post.  You could do a lot worse than follow that plan (BarryP).

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=414314&posts=34&start=1

2012-11-02 10:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
^^^ Read this ^^^. I was about to write the same thing, but Michael beat me to it. The BarryP approach is gimmick-free, and very effective. 
2012-11-02 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.

I will add that most "good" plans, look intimidating at first.  You may think to yourself...geez...it's going to take me 6-9 months using this plan before it says I'm going to be ready for a half marathon.  Well...good plans don't take shortcuts and don't sugar coat things. 

I use a variation of BarryP's plan, and if you wanted to get your LR up to 14 miles in prep for a half marathon, then BarryP suggests you would need to be running 4.5, 9, 4.5, 9, 4.5, 14 for a total of 45.5 mpw.  Sounds like a lot right?  Well...it is.  It will take most people a long time to get there.  But the people that do...they tend to get there well prepared and injury free.

It's not for everyone though...not everyone can run that many miles due to prior injuries.  But assuming you're healthy...I think it's the best way to go.



2012-11-02 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.

Ok thanks for all of the advice!  That thread was a good read.  I made up a 16 week training plan, please feel free to comment and tell me whats wrong with it (I'm sure there is a lot!).  It is not exactly what he puts out (5 days a week), but I think it is slow to increase the distances.  I built in some recovery weeks as well. 

Take a look if you would and please feel free to rip it apart.

You guys are great btw, appreciate the help.





Attachments
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RunTrain.xlsx (10KB - 32 downloads)
2012-11-02 1:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
Justin86 - 2012-11-02 7:14 AM

Ok thanks for all of the advice!  That thread was a good read.  I made up a 16 week training plan, please feel free to comment and tell me whats wrong with it (I'm sure there is a lot!).  It is not exactly what he puts out (5 days a week), but I think it is slow to increase the distances.  I built in some recovery weeks as well. 

Take a look if you would and please feel free to rip it apart.

You guys are great btw, appreciate the help.

Looks pretty good.

ETA: this plan should take you to around end of February...which will give you another 8+ weeks to ramp up for a May half marathon.  The one thing I will add is that I think it's good that you accounted for 3 cut back weeks.  But when the time comes, if you don't feel like you need them...there is no real need to take them.  Just listen to your body.  Often times I account for cut back weeks, but I rarely take them when I actually planned them.



Edited by tri808 2012-11-02 1:43 PM
2012-11-02 2:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
tri808 - 2012-11-02 2:37 PM

Justin86 - 2012-11-02 7:14 AM

Ok thanks for all of the advice!  That thread was a good read.  I made up a 16 week training plan, please feel free to comment and tell me whats wrong with it (I'm sure there is a lot!).  It is not exactly what he puts out (5 days a week), but I think it is slow to increase the distances.  I built in some recovery weeks as well. 

Take a look if you would and please feel free to rip it apart.

You guys are great btw, appreciate the help.

Looks pretty good.

ETA: this plan should take you to around end of February...which will give you another 8+ weeks to ramp up for a May half marathon.  The one thing I will add is that I think it's good that you accounted for 3 cut back weeks.  But when the time comes, if you don't feel like you need them...there is no real need to take them.  Just listen to your body.  Often times I account for cut back weeks, but I rarely take them when I actually planned them.



Agreed, it looks fine.

One thing to consider is the effort level for each of those runs. Generally, you want the effort to be on the easy side. What does easy mean? Personally, I try to monitor my breathing, and overall how I feel. If there's burning sensations, or I'm huffing and puffing, I'm not going easy.

Sometimes, though, you will end up going harder than you wanted. Nothing wrong with it, and it's the reason why, in my opinion, beginner plans shouldn't specifically include harder efforts intentionally; a new runner is going to struggle with always running consistently anyway (heck, experienced runners do, too). That being said, there's nothing wrong with pushing the last few miles on the long runs every now and again. Helps get you mentally ready for a race situation.

Also, you can look at incorporating drills, such as striders or high knees. Here's a good list.
2012-11-02 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
Whoa...he's back!!!
2012-11-02 4:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Some run training advice.
tri808 - 2012-11-02 1:37 PM
Justin86 - 2012-11-02 7:14 AM

Ok thanks for all of the advice!  That thread was a good read.  I made up a 16 week training plan, please feel free to comment and tell me whats wrong with it (I'm sure there is a lot!).  It is not exactly what he puts out (5 days a week), but I think it is slow to increase the distances.  I built in some recovery weeks as well. 

Take a look if you would and please feel free to rip it apart.

You guys are great btw, appreciate the help.

Looks pretty good.

ETA: this plan should take you to around end of February...which will give you another 8+ weeks to ramp up for a May half marathon.  The one thing I will add is that I think it's good that you accounted for 3 cut back weeks.  But when the time comes, if you don't feel like you need them...there is no real need to take them.  Just listen to your body.  Often times I account for cut back weeks, but I rarely take them when I actually planned them.

 

Yes from what I understand these are important in your training.  They may not be needed like you said but It seems to be a good idea to have them.  If I need them I need them, if not then I don't and I can adjust the plan accordingly.

It is going to be a bit difficult though, some of these shorter runs will seem way to easy I think.  But we will see.  Looking forward to having an actual training plan then just getting out there for some random amount of miles on a random day.



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