General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard? Rss Feed  
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2012-12-10 9:24 AM

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Subject: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

A little history.  I am a 60 year old new rider; having been riding since last April or so, when I decided to go from being strictly a runner to a triathlete.  (Wanting/needing the cross training for my back - which gives me issues from time to time).

Saturday afternoon I went out for a training ride - really just wanting to get some good mileage in at a solid cruise speed.  I ended up riding 32.3 miles at 19 miles per hour.  This is my longest, and fastest ride ... like ever.  And I was very happy with it!  Felt great afterward and the legs gave me no problems whatsoever.  I ran 10 miles this morning  and it went well.

But, I looked at the HR profile for my ride and it looks like I may have ridden this pretty hard.

17.53% Zones 1 to 3 (mostly 3)
48.63% Zone 4
33.84% Zone 5

That's a fairly high percentage of my time in Zones 4 and 5.  Did I ride this too hard?  (Like I said I'm new at this biking stuff).  Should I be riding easier?  Or is this ride a good thing?  Comments and suggestions - all welcome!

Bill 



2012-12-10 9:29 AM
in reply to: #4528998

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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

By definition, its would probably be impossible to spend that much time in Z4 and Z5; I would go back and determine your zones again.  If you felt great afterwards, and you still aren't suffering now, you're probably fine.

edit: Every now and then my 305 gives me a funky HR reading (based on my RPE.)  When I upload the data to Garmin Connect it appears that there are lots of spikes into the 250-ish BPM range.  You may have something similar skewing your data.



Edited by wbattaile 2012-12-10 9:31 AM
2012-12-10 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

My Garmin soft-strap showed my HR up to 250 and sometime in the 200's for over an hour.

I am now using a Polar Softstrap with my Garmin ANT+ sensor and had not any issues.

I think the HR-strap from Garmin might be causing reading issues in your case as well.

 

Further, you may want to elaborate on how your HR zones are defined.

There are multiple options in doing so, some better, some worse...

2012-12-10 10:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
timf79 - 2012-12-10 9:58 AM

My Garmin soft-strap showed my HR up to 250 and sometime in the 200's for over an hour.

I am now using a Polar Softstrap with my Garmin ANT+ sensor and had not any issues.

I think the HR-strap from Garmin might be causing reading issues in your case as well.

 

Further, you may want to elaborate on how your HR zones are defined.

There are multiple options in doing so, some better, some worse...

x2.  Also lets say your HR zone 3 is 150-160 bpm and zone 4 161-170.  If you are riding around at 161 technically you might be in zone 4, but in reality you arent doing significantly more work then having a HR of 160 and being in zone 3

2012-12-10 1:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

By definition, its would probably be impossible to spend that much time in Z4 and Z5; I would go back and determine your zones again.  If you felt great afterwards, and you still aren't suffering now, you're probably fine.

Makes sense.  You've probably nailed it here.  I need to do another Lactate Threshold test and see what my HR's are now.

edit: Every now and then my 305 gives me a funky HR reading (based on my RPE.)  When I upload the data to Garmin Connect it appears that there are lots of spikes into the 250-ish BPM range.  You may have something similar skewing your data.

I don't really think my HRs were skewed/spiked.  I have very few problems in this regard with my 910.  And on my previous 305 for that matter.

Bill



Edited by breger1 2012-12-10 1:20 PM
2012-12-10 1:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

You probably need to retest your zones.

If you finish a ride feeling fine...there is no way you rode too hard.  If anything, you didn't ride hard enough...just sayin. 



2012-12-10 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
breger1 - 2012-12-10 10:24 AM

Did I ride this too hard?  

I don't know anything about HR zones.  The answer is no.

 

 



Edited by Goosedog 2012-12-10 1:29 PM
2012-12-10 2:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
By the way, you're awesome.  Good job.
2012-12-10 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

Bodaggit - 2012-12-10 3:01 PM By the way, you're awesome.  Good job.

So is that "awesome for a 60 year old" or just awesome in general?  Wink
Kidding!  Thanks.

Bill

2012-12-10 2:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
tri808 - 2012-12-10 2:26 PM

You probably need to retest your zones.

If you finish a ride feeling fine...there is no way you rode too hard.  If anything, you didn't ride hard enough...just sayin. 

This.

You mentioned you were a runner.  Have you done HR training in the past and know what your running zones are?  Generally cycling HR zones will be about 10 bpm less.

Mark

2012-12-10 2:08 PM
in reply to: #4529529

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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
I would say that if you did 90 minutes almost all in Z4 and Z5 and felt great afterwards?  You need to recheck you zones.  I would feel pretty spent after doing 90 in Z4/Z5.


2012-12-10 2:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
RedCorvette - 2012-12-10 3:05 PM 

You mentioned you were a runner.  Have you done HR training in the past and know what your running zones are?  Generally cycling HR zones will be about 10 bpm less.

Mark

Here are my riding and running Zones based on LT testing I did last July/August.  Looks like about 13 bpm difference or so.  (And yes, my max. HR is pretty low relative to many other people.  183 is the highest I've ever recorded - at the end of my 5K PR.)

Bill

?



Edited by breger1 2012-12-10 2:23 PM
2012-12-10 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

Those numbers are remarkably close to mine.  FWIW, I'm 59 and have a resting HR of 41 bpm. 

I find that I have to put out a fairly reasonable effort to stay in Z2/Z3 on the bike when I'm riding on my own. I usually don't get into Z4 unless I'm doing intervals.

Mark

2012-12-10 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
breger1 - 2012-12-10 10:24 AM

 Did I ride this too hard?  (Like I said I'm new at this biking stuff).  Should I be riding easier?  Or is this ride a good thing?  Comments and suggestions - all welcome!

Bill 



Beyond the discussion of your correct heart rate zones and whether your device was measuring your HR properly, the correct answer is "I don't know." Reason being is that I don't know how this ride fits into your training plan, or what kind of terrain you were riding on, or how fast or how long you usually ride, or... you get the point.

Having said that, if this is a long ride for you, slow it down and stay in your lower heart rates. Endurance comes first, the speed later. As an example of one, all my rides are in Z1 at this time of year. In the big scheme of things though, congratulations! You seem to be adapting to the bike well. Have a great season!

Ken
2012-12-10 2:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

kenail - 2012-12-10 3:38 PM 

Having said that, if this is a long ride for you, slow it down and stay in your lower heart rates. Endurance comes first, the speed later.

What is it about riding in lower zones that helps build endurance, as you say, that riding in the higher zones does not?

 

 

2012-12-10 3:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
I don't want to see the OP get hijacked, but there are many good arguments for low HR zone training. We may be talking at cross-purposes, though -- what you're thinking of as "endurance" may be different than me. In my case I'm talking about training at purely aerobic levels. The following excerpt isn't original to me, but I think it's a good summation of the key points (originally keyed towards runners, but the principle is the same):

What benefits might I reap from low HR training?

a. You’ll train your body to use fat for fuel at a reasonably fast running pace (reasonably fast means different things to different people). With enough of this training, this means that you can preserve your precious carbohydrate stores throughout very long races. You can avoid “the wall” and “bonking” in marathons and longer races.
b. Running at a much lower level of effort, aerobically, will be much less taxing on your body, even if you end up as fast as or faster than your original training pace.
c. You will strengthen your legs and hips tremendously.
d. You will be adding an additional fuel tank that you didn’t realize that you had.
e. You will develop significant aerobic speed, which means you may reach speeds that you were doing before low HR training at very high level of effort, with ease.
f. You will eliminate as strong of a reliance on carbs during most races, and certainly training runs.

Scientifically, what is happening with this approach?

You are training your aerobic system, which includes using more fat (vs carbohydrate) for fuel and using slow-twitch muscle fibers as well as building mitochondria.

Will this make me a faster runner?

It may not make you faster, but it will help you build aerobic speed, converting much of the capability of your anaerobic system to your aerobic system. Since your anaerobic system cannot sustain you for very long, this means that you will be able to sustain higher speeds for longer periods of time.

Ken


2012-12-10 3:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
Last I checked...training in Z4/5 is still aerobic.  With regards to running though (the OP is talking about biking), I would indeed recommend lower zone training, but not for the reasons you mentioned.  More for injury prevention and lower recovery costs so that you can run more.  Biking's not impact nature, and quicker recovery costs make it ideal for higher zone training (while still being aerobic).
2012-12-10 3:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

Thanks for the response.  I guess what I'm having a hard time understanding is why you would suggest that there is a greater training benefit to the OP by riding easier rather than riding harder.  He said he felt good, was able to run long the next day - I guess I just don't understand the suggestion to take it easier.

 

 

2012-12-10 4:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?

kenail - 2012-12-10 3:16 PM I don't want to see the OP get hijacked, but there are many good arguments for low HR zone training. We may be talking at cross-purposes, though -- what you're thinking of as "endurance" may be different than me. In my case I'm talking about training at purely aerobic levels. The following excerpt isn't original to me, but I think it's a good summation of the key points (originally keyed towards runners, but the principle is the same): What benefits might I reap from low HR training? a. You’ll train your body to use fat for fuel at a reasonably fast running pace (reasonably fast means different things to different people). With enough of this training, this means that you can preserve your precious carbohydrate stores throughout very long races. You can avoid “the wall” and “bonking” in marathons and longer races. b. Running at a much lower level of effort, aerobically, will be much less taxing on your body, even if you end up as fast as or faster than your original training pace. c. You will strengthen your legs and hips tremendously. d. You will be adding an additional fuel tank that you didn’t realize that you had. e. You will develop significant aerobic speed, which means you may reach speeds that you were doing before low HR training at very high level of effort, with ease. f. You will eliminate as strong of a reliance on carbs during most races, and certainly training runs. Scientifically, what is happening with this approach? You are training your aerobic system, which includes using more fat (vs carbohydrate) for fuel and using slow-twitch muscle fibers as well as building mitochondria. Will this make me a faster runner? It may not make you faster, but it will help you build aerobic speed, converting much of the capability of your anaerobic system to your aerobic system. Since your anaerobic system cannot sustain you for very long, this means that you will be able to sustain higher speeds for longer periods of time. Ken

Well, the thread was about cycling, not running if you want to stay on topic. So scratch item b (though I would agree with it). None of the other items make sense or are really blown out of proportion in importance. Training at threshold is still highly dominated by the aerobic part. Perhaps I'm missing something from the context of where this was taken from.

2012-12-10 7:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Ride - did I ride this too hard?
brigby1 - 2012-12-10 5:46 PM

kenail - 2012-12-10 3:16 PM I don't want to see the OP get hijacked, but there are many good arguments for low HR zone training. We may be talking at cross-purposes, though -- what you're thinking of as "endurance" may be different than me. In my case I'm talking about training at purely aerobic levels. The following excerpt isn't original to me, but I think it's a good summation of the key points (originally keyed towards runners, but the principle is the same): What benefits might I reap from low HR training? a. You’ll train your body to use fat for fuel at a reasonably fast running pace (reasonably fast means different things to different people). With enough of this training, this means that you can preserve your precious carbohydrate stores throughout very long races. You can avoid “the wall” and “bonking” in marathons and longer races. b. Running at a much lower level of effort, aerobically, will be much less taxing on your body, even if you end up as fast as or faster than your original training pace. c. You will strengthen your legs and hips tremendously. d. You will be adding an additional fuel tank that you didn’t realize that you had. e. You will develop significant aerobic speed, which means you may reach speeds that you were doing before low HR training at very high level of effort, with ease. f. You will eliminate as strong of a reliance on carbs during most races, and certainly training runs. Scientifically, what is happening with this approach? You are training your aerobic system, which includes using more fat (vs carbohydrate) for fuel and using slow-twitch muscle fibers as well as building mitochondria. Will this make me a faster runner? It may not make you faster, but it will help you build aerobic speed, converting much of the capability of your anaerobic system to your aerobic system. Since your anaerobic system cannot sustain you for very long, this means that you will be able to sustain higher speeds for longer periods of time. Ken

Well, the thread was about cycling, not running if you want to stay on topic. So scratch item b (though I would agree with it). None of the other items make sense or are really blown out of proportion in importance. Training at threshold is still highly dominated by the aerobic part. Perhaps I'm missing something from the context of where this was taken from.

I don't think you're missing anything.  I agree completely.

To the OP, sounds like you did not ride too hard since you felt good and were able to run fine during your next workout.  Unless cumulative fatigue were to begin to build by riding at that effort, keep it up or ride even harder. 

As an aside, riding in Z1 would be a waste of time for most triathletes at almost any time of year (unless it is a recovery period after a harder interval).  Few ride enough where Z1 will be very effective in driving adaptations.

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