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Women to be cleared for combat roles (Page 2)
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 2013-01-23 10:29 PM in reply to: #4592127 |
Expert  2192    Greenville, SC |  Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat rolesLeft Brain - 2013-01-23 11:26 PM blueyedbikergirl - 2013-01-23 10:19 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. it's a fact of life. It happens every day without the added stress of combat. I'm glad I don't live where you do - to live with that kind of fear would be exhausting to me. So, you are saying that you would walk in any neighborhood in Chicago, at any hour of the day, without that fear? Because if that's the case, I'll take that bet. I get to pick the neighborhood. Remember, it's just a group of men after a few drinks.....I get to pick the neighborhood. you could make that type of scenario for anyone. im sure there is a street somewhere you don't want to walk down at a certain time of day. |
| 2013-01-23 10:30 PM in reply to: #4592085 |
Pro 3906  St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 9:51 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-23 9:47 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 9:42 PM OK I don't get what your problem is this time. Or are you just intentionally trying to be a jerk?jlruhnke - 2013-01-23 9:07 PM Hopefully these women on the front lines are treated with the respect they deserve. http://news.yahoo.com/air-force-calls-number-sex-assaults-appalling-150039203--politics.html Yes, because war is the last bastion of respect. Tony, have you ever been in the military? Have you ever been around guys who are so keyed up on fighting and testosterone that they can hardly control themselves? I'm not trying to be a jerk....this is just the stupidest idea in the history of stupid ideas. Yeah, put women on the front lines in the worst of combat and then expect what? Hell, read the article.....now triple it in a combat zone, and then talk about how disrespectful the soldiers are. Here's my deal....just so you aren't confused: IT'S DISRESPECTFUL TO WOMEN TO PUT THEM ON THE FRONT LINE OF COMBAT. Does that clear it up for you? Better tell that to my sister-in-law who just got back from a rotation with a SF unit in Afghanistan. She was/is participating in the Female Engagement Team program, and was on patrol with a SF team for a large chunk of 2012. http://www.army.mil/article/88366/ She's out there doing it. The only ones being disrespectful are the people who refuse to acknowledge that she's out there on patrol just the same as all the men in her unit. She humped the same ruck over the same mountains as the rest of her unit, and she deserves to be recognized the same as everyone else. |
| 2013-01-23 10:31 PM in reply to: #4592130 |
Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. men/women don't get equal treatment. They just don't. Physically we are different - we are wired differently. In the workplace it can be equal - it rarely is. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's a fact. And in some physical jobs I cannot compete in the workplace. I cannot be equal.
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| 2013-01-23 10:33 PM in reply to: #4592130 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Clempson - 2013-01-23 10:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. Equal in what? Get 100 women and line them up against 100 men.....let them fight. Sure....equal. My wife and daughters are BETTER than me at so many things.....but fighting? Again, this is the dumbest crap ever. Hey....WAIT.....I get it, we're the same physically, you know, equal....what was I thinking?
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| 2013-01-23 10:33 PM in reply to: #4592131 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:28 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-23 10:23 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:15 PM OK so ... how about instead of keeping women from combat we, oh I don't know, expect men to control themselves around women? I'm glad I don't live in your world where women who are around a group of pumped up men should expect to be sexually assaulted. mr2tony - 2013-01-23 10:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Tony......I wish the world was like you think it is.
Dude, I don't live in that world either.....but I'd be glad to take you to it and show it to you. You act like it doesn't exist. Incredible. Truly. So because there are men out there who rape women, women shoudln't be allowed to do jobs that put them in with the men? Ridiculous. It's mind-boggling to me that people still think like you do. You're basically saying that women shouldn't be allowed to do something because the men they'd work with won't be able to behave themselves. Again, maybe instead of punishing women by not allowing them to be in combat, we should expect the men with whom they'd serve to be more respectful. |
Where do you think the numbers in that article come from, Mars??| 2013-01-23 10:33 PM in reply to: #4592127 |
Champion 10550 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:26 PM blueyedbikergirl - 2013-01-23 10:19 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. it's a fact of life. It happens every day without the added stress of combat. I'm glad I don't live where you do - to live with that kind of fear would be exhausting to me. So, you are saying that you would walk in any neighborhood in Chicago, at any hour of the day, without that fear? Because if that's the case, I'll take that bet. I get to pick the neighborhood. Remember, it's just a group of men after a few drinks.....I get to pick the neighborhood. Hmmm.... as long as my reading comprehension is up to sufficient reading comprehension levels, in looking at what I posted I said that I wouldn't want to live with the level of fear that Jo experiences or in the area that she lives in that causes her to feel that way. BUT if that's where she wants to live, then that's where she wants to live. I've lived in Vancouver, London and now Chicago. So far, not once have I ever felt the fear that someone might do me harm and I've walked through some pretty sketchy neighbourhoods. Google East Vancouver or the Vancouver Lower East Side and see what a wonderful area that is. Maybe you should take some reading comprehension tests? |
| 2013-01-23 10:34 PM in reply to: #4592141 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:33 PM Clempson - 2013-01-23 10:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. Equal in what? Get 100 women and line them up against 100 men.....let them fight. Sure....equal. My wife and daughters are BETTER than me at so many things.....but fighting? Again, this is the dumbest crap ever. Hey....WAIT.....I get it, we're the same physically, you know, equal....what was I thinking?
Haha so you ARE a chauvinist pig, you're not just delusional. That explains a lot. |
| 2013-01-23 10:35 PM in reply to: #4592137 |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles jobaxas - 2013-01-23 11:31 PM Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. men/women don't get equal treatment. They just don't. Physically we are different - we are wired differently. In the workplace it can be equal - it rarely is. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's a fact. And in some physical jobs I cannot compete in the workplace. I cannot be equal.
so are you arguing that women don't deserve equal treatment? if you are going to go the "wired" route maybe we should exclude all women from math and science; leave them to linguistics and composition, you are better "wired for that". |
| 2013-01-23 10:35 PM in reply to: #4592137 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:31 PM Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. men/women don't get equal treatment. They just don't. Physically we are different - we are wired differently. In the workplace it can be equal - it rarely is. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's a fact. And in some physical jobs I cannot compete in the workplace. I cannot be equal.
What do you do for a living? |
| 2013-01-23 10:35 PM in reply to: #4592133 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Clempson - 2013-01-23 10:29 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 11:26 PM blueyedbikergirl - 2013-01-23 10:19 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. it's a fact of life. It happens every day without the added stress of combat. I'm glad I don't live where you do - to live with that kind of fear would be exhausting to me. So, you are saying that you would walk in any neighborhood in Chicago, at any hour of the day, without that fear? Because if that's the case, I'll take that bet. I get to pick the neighborhood. Remember, it's just a group of men after a few drinks.....I get to pick the neighborhood. you could make that type of scenario for anyone. im sure there is a street somewhere you don't want to walk down at a certain time of day. Look, you can act like it's the same......I'm laughing at you because you know better than to think it's the same. If you do, than you need to walk down those streets. I have, many times....and it's NOT the same. |
| 2013-01-23 10:36 PM in reply to: #4592132 |
Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:28 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:21 PM So it's a fact, so you just accept it? That's even more sad and ridiculous that Left Brain. At least he's a man and can't be expected to control himself when he's pumped up and around women, apparently, but YOU are a woman and I would think you'd expect men to not sexually harass you in any situation. Do you NOT expect men to behave themselves around you? To take it back full circle, these men are military men. They're taught to be respectful toward others. They SHOULD know how to be respectful to women. To say women shouldn't be allowed to serve because they run the risk of rape is not the fault of the woman, it's the fault of the would-be rapist. To exclude women from something like this because men can't be expected to control their sex drive is insulting to not only women, but it SHOULD be considered disrespectful to men. mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:16 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM And that's OK with you? So by your rationale women shouldn't be allowed into sporting events. Or pubs where there's a sport event being shown? mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. It's a fact. Oh hold on where did I type that? Of course it's not okay - Geez. BUT it's a fact - until you can walk in our shoes you cannot judge. Of course we go to sporting events of course we go to pubs but let me tell you as a woman you have to have your wits about you at all times. You have to be aware, you have to be safe - you travel with friends where you can. I live in Melbourne it's a safe city - rape and murder still happen. Just because I say it happens does not mean I am okay with it. You're nuts! Man you're good at putting words in people's mouths. Do I find it acceptable no. BUT it is a fact - or am I imagining the number of rapes that happen every day. Do you know anyone who has been raped? It is a very sad fact of life, it happens. Of course of the men I know I expect them to treat women with respect. I don't know all the men in the world. I don't know those drunken louts walking out of the pub as I walk past. I cannot expect them to treat me with respect. I would rather act with caution than suffer the ordeal of rape.
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| 2013-01-23 10:36 PM in reply to: #4592147 |
Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:35 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:31 PM What do you do for a living?Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. men/women don't get equal treatment. They just don't. Physically we are different - we are wired differently. In the workplace it can be equal - it rarely is. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's a fact. And in some physical jobs I cannot compete in the workplace. I cannot be equal.
Irrelevant. |
| 2013-01-23 10:37 PM in reply to: #4592141 |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 11:33 PM Clempson - 2013-01-23 10:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. Equal in what? Get 100 women and line them up against 100 men.....let them fight. Sure....equal. My wife and daughters are BETTER than me at so many things.....but fighting? Again, this is the dumbest crap ever. Hey....WAIT.....I get it, we're the same physically, you know, equal....what was I thinking?
if they aren't good at fighting maybe they shouldn't sign up for the armed forces. im good at math so i became an engineer. everyone is different, everyone should follow their passion. line 100 women soldiers up against 100 civilian men. my money isn't on the men. |
| 2013-01-23 10:37 PM in reply to: #4592110 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:15 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-23 10:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Tony......I wish the world was like you think it is. They come as the result of people with attitudes like yours that 'boys will be boys' when they're in combat and that sort of behavior is expected or 'comes with the territory'. Thanks for being part of the solution. And yeah, before you ask, my brother and his wife are both in the Army (101st), and have done multiple tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. See above for my sister-in-law's most recent deployment experience. |
| 2013-01-23 10:38 PM in reply to: #4592146 |
Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:35 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 11:31 PM Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. men/women don't get equal treatment. They just don't. Physically we are different - we are wired differently. In the workplace it can be equal - it rarely is. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's a fact. And in some physical jobs I cannot compete in the workplace. I cannot be equal.
so are you arguing that women don't deserve equal treatment? if you are going to go the "wired" route maybe we should exclude all women from math and science; leave them to linguistics and composition, you are better "wired for that". Not arguing that at all. I'm saying i cannot do some physical jobs. Go past any building site, go down a mine - see how many women are there doing the exact same job. We deserve an equal right. But I cannot do everything a man does, I'm not ashamed to admit that. |
| 2013-01-23 10:38 PM in reply to: #4592149 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:36 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:28 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:21 PM So it's a fact, so you just accept it? That's even more sad and ridiculous that Left Brain. At least he's a man and can't be expected to control himself when he's pumped up and around women, apparently, but YOU are a woman and I would think you'd expect men to not sexually harass you in any situation. Do you NOT expect men to behave themselves around you? To take it back full circle, these men are military men. They're taught to be respectful toward others. They SHOULD know how to be respectful to women. To say women shouldn't be allowed to serve because they run the risk of rape is not the fault of the woman, it's the fault of the would-be rapist. To exclude women from something like this because men can't be expected to control their sex drive is insulting to not only women, but it SHOULD be considered disrespectful to men. mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:16 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM And that's OK with you? So by your rationale women shouldn't be allowed into sporting events. Or pubs where there's a sport event being shown? mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. It's a fact. Oh hold on where did I type that? Of course it's not okay - Geez. BUT it's a fact - until you can walk in our shoes you cannot judge. Of course we go to sporting events of course we go to pubs but let me tell you as a woman you have to have your wits about you at all times. You have to be aware, you have to be safe - you travel with friends where you can. I live in Melbourne it's a safe city - rape and murder still happen. Just because I say it happens does not mean I am okay with it. You're nuts! Man you're good at putting words in people's mouths. Do I find it acceptable no. BUT it is a fact - or am I imagining the number of rapes that happen every day. Do you know anyone who has been raped? It is a very sad fact of life, it happens. Of course of the men I know I expect them to treat women with respect. I don't know all the men in the world. I don't know those drunken louts walking out of the pub as I walk past. I cannot expect them to treat me with respect. I would rather act with caution than suffer the ordeal of rape.
Right, but in a workplace, if you're working with a group of all men, and you're the only woman, then are you scared? I mean, should you be excluded, not because you aren't unable to do the job, but because you're a woman and the men can't be expected to control themselves? |
| 2013-01-23 10:40 PM in reply to: #4592144 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles mr2tony - 2013-01-23 10:34 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:33 PM Haha so you ARE a chauvinist pig, you're not just delusional. That explains a lot. Clempson - 2013-01-23 10:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. Equal in what? Get 100 women and line them up against 100 men.....let them fight. Sure....equal. My wife and daughters are BETTER than me at so many things.....but fighting? Again, this is the dumbest crap ever. Hey....WAIT.....I get it, we're the same physically, you know, equal....what was I thinking?
I don't care what label you put on it. You should know by now that you aren't going to hurt my feelings. Here's the fact. Put more women on the front lines and you will have more women sexually assaulted. You can cry foul all you want......and I'll stand next to you and proclaim how wrong it is right with you....and then I'll tell you how stupid you were for allowing it. That's all.....you crazy kids have fun. |
| 2013-01-23 10:40 PM in reply to: #4592148 |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 11:35 PM Clempson - 2013-01-23 10:29 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 11:26 PM blueyedbikergirl - 2013-01-23 10:19 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. it's a fact of life. It happens every day without the added stress of combat. I'm glad I don't live where you do - to live with that kind of fear would be exhausting to me. So, you are saying that you would walk in any neighborhood in Chicago, at any hour of the day, without that fear? Because if that's the case, I'll take that bet. I get to pick the neighborhood. Remember, it's just a group of men after a few drinks.....I get to pick the neighborhood. you could make that type of scenario for anyone. im sure there is a street somewhere you don't want to walk down at a certain time of day. Look, you can act like it's the same......I'm laughing at you because you know better than to think it's the same. If you do, than you need to walk down those streets. I have, many times....and it's NOT the same. how do you know what the same is or isn't? can you change your gender at will and experience the scenario through either role? |
| 2013-01-23 10:41 PM in reply to: #4592154 |
Elite 4435 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:38 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:36 PM Right, but in a workplace, if you're working with a group of all men, and you're the only woman, then are you scared? I mean, should you be excluded, not because you aren't unable to do the job, but because you're a woman and the men can't be expected to control themselves? mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:28 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:21 PM So it's a fact, so you just accept it? That's even more sad and ridiculous that Left Brain. At least he's a man and can't be expected to control himself when he's pumped up and around women, apparently, but YOU are a woman and I would think you'd expect men to not sexually harass you in any situation. Do you NOT expect men to behave themselves around you? To take it back full circle, these men are military men. They're taught to be respectful toward others. They SHOULD know how to be respectful to women. To say women shouldn't be allowed to serve because they run the risk of rape is not the fault of the woman, it's the fault of the would-be rapist. To exclude women from something like this because men can't be expected to control their sex drive is insulting to not only women, but it SHOULD be considered disrespectful to men. mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:16 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM And that's OK with you? So by your rationale women shouldn't be allowed into sporting events. Or pubs where there's a sport event being shown? mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. It's a fact. Oh hold on where did I type that? Of course it's not okay - Geez. BUT it's a fact - until you can walk in our shoes you cannot judge. Of course we go to sporting events of course we go to pubs but let me tell you as a woman you have to have your wits about you at all times. You have to be aware, you have to be safe - you travel with friends where you can. I live in Melbourne it's a safe city - rape and murder still happen. Just because I say it happens does not mean I am okay with it. You're nuts! Man you're good at putting words in people's mouths. Do I find it acceptable no. BUT it is a fact - or am I imagining the number of rapes that happen every day. Do you know anyone who has been raped? It is a very sad fact of life, it happens. Of course of the men I know I expect them to treat women with respect. I don't know all the men in the world. I don't know those drunken louts walking out of the pub as I walk past. I cannot expect them to treat me with respect. I would rather act with caution than suffer the ordeal of rape.
No I work with guys and I'm not scared. I personally wouldn't put myself in the position to find out. |
| 2013-01-23 10:41 PM in reply to: #4592152 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles coredump - 2013-01-23 10:37 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:15 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-23 10:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Tony......I wish the world was like you think it is. They come as the result of people with attitudes like yours that 'boys will be boys' when they're in combat and that sort of behavior is expected or 'comes with the territory'. Thanks for being part of the solution. And yeah, before you ask, my brother and his wife are both in the Army (101st), and have done multiple tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. See above for my sister-in-law's most recent deployment experience. Yes, let's ask some of the female officers who've served multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan who are on here what they think of that attitude. I don't think they'd like it much. |
| 2013-01-23 10:43 PM in reply to: #4592135 |
Champion 10550 Austin, Texas | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles coredump - 2013-01-23 10:30 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 9:51 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-23 9:47 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 9:42 PM OK I don't get what your problem is this time. Or are you just intentionally trying to be a jerk?jlruhnke - 2013-01-23 9:07 PM Hopefully these women on the front lines are treated with the respect they deserve. http://news.yahoo.com/air-force-calls-number-sex-assaults-appalling-150039203--politics.html Yes, because war is the last bastion of respect. Tony, have you ever been in the military? Have you ever been around guys who are so keyed up on fighting and testosterone that they can hardly control themselves? I'm not trying to be a jerk....this is just the stupidest idea in the history of stupid ideas. Yeah, put women on the front lines in the worst of combat and then expect what? Hell, read the article.....now triple it in a combat zone, and then talk about how disrespectful the soldiers are. Here's my deal....just so you aren't confused: IT'S DISRESPECTFUL TO WOMEN TO PUT THEM ON THE FRONT LINE OF COMBAT. Does that clear it up for you? Better tell that to my sister-in-law who just got back from a rotation with a SF unit in Afghanistan. She was/is participating in the Female Engagement Team program, and was on patrol with a SF team for a large chunk of 2012. http://www.army.mil/article/88366/ She's out there doing it. The only ones being disrespectful are the people who refuse to acknowledge that she's out there on patrol just the same as all the men in her unit. She humped the same ruck over the same mountains as the rest of her unit, and she deserves to be recognized the same as everyone else. She absolutely does. |
| 2013-01-23 10:43 PM in reply to: #4592153 |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles jobaxas - 2013-01-23 11:38 PM Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:35 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 11:31 PM Clempson - 2013-01-24 3:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. men/women don't get equal treatment. They just don't. Physically we are different - we are wired differently. In the workplace it can be equal - it rarely is. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's a fact. And in some physical jobs I cannot compete in the workplace. I cannot be equal.
so are you arguing that women don't deserve equal treatment? if you are going to go the "wired" route maybe we should exclude all women from math and science; leave them to linguistics and composition, you are better "wired for that". Not arguing that at all. I'm saying i cannot do some physical jobs. Go past any building site, go down a mine - see how many women are there doing the exact same job. We deserve an equal right. But I cannot do everything a man does, I'm not ashamed to admit that. there are plenty of men who don't meet "physical" requirements for jobs as well. also im sure if you looked at the applicant ratio for these jobs you would see where the discrepancy comes from. |
| 2013-01-23 10:44 PM in reply to: #4592155 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:40 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-23 10:34 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:33 PM Haha so you ARE a chauvinist pig, you're not just delusional. That explains a lot. Clempson - 2013-01-23 10:27 PM stupid. should have happened long ago. either men/women get equal treatment or we can just admit they aren't equal at all, which just opens up more doorways into medieval oppression. Equal in what? Get 100 women and line them up against 100 men.....let them fight. Sure....equal. My wife and daughters are BETTER than me at so many things.....but fighting? Again, this is the dumbest crap ever. Hey....WAIT.....I get it, we're the same physically, you know, equal....what was I thinking?
I don't care what label you put on it. You should know by now that you aren't going to hurt my feelings. Here's the fact. Put more women on the front lines and you will have more women sexually assaulted. You can cry foul all you want......and I'll stand next to you and proclaim how wrong it is right with you....and then I'll tell you how stupid you were for allowing it. That's all.....you crazy kids have fun. Yep run off because you know you're argument is invalid and ridiculous. Please, come back tomorrow and explain to some of our female troops here why they shouldn't be allowed to serve on the front lines. Explain to them that they shouldn't be allowed up there because their coworkers wouldn't be expected to control themselves. |
| 2013-01-23 10:44 PM in reply to: #4592152 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles coredump - 2013-01-23 10:37 PM Left Brain - 2013-01-23 10:15 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-23 10:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Tony......I wish the world was like you think it is. They come as the result of people with attitudes like yours that 'boys will be boys' when they're in combat and that sort of behavior is expected or 'comes with the territory'. Thanks for being part of the solution. And yeah, before you ask, my brother and his wife are both in the Army (101st), and have done multiple tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. See above for my sister-in-law's most recent deployment experience. I appreciate your family's service.....my own family can keep up with any if we are going to start measuring.....just saying. I didn't say "boys will be boys".....but you need to pay attention with what happens. I'm going to say the same thing to you I said to Tony.....more women in combat means more women sexually assaulted (and if the battle is lost they ALL will be if they are still alive)....it's wrong, what's your point? Are you denying what I am saying? Because if you are......you're not paying attention. Edited by Left Brain 2013-01-23 10:45 PM |
| 2013-01-23 10:45 PM in reply to: #4592158 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Women to be cleared for combat roles jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:41 PM mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:38 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:36 PM Right, but in a workplace, if you're working with a group of all men, and you're the only woman, then are you scared? I mean, should you be excluded, not because you aren't unable to do the job, but because you're a woman and the men can't be expected to control themselves? mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:28 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:21 PM So it's a fact, so you just accept it? That's even more sad and ridiculous that Left Brain. At least he's a man and can't be expected to control himself when he's pumped up and around women, apparently, but YOU are a woman and I would think you'd expect men to not sexually harass you in any situation. Do you NOT expect men to behave themselves around you? To take it back full circle, these men are military men. They're taught to be respectful toward others. They SHOULD know how to be respectful to women. To say women shouldn't be allowed to serve because they run the risk of rape is not the fault of the woman, it's the fault of the would-be rapist. To exclude women from something like this because men can't be expected to control their sex drive is insulting to not only women, but it SHOULD be considered disrespectful to men. mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:16 PM jobaxas - 2013-01-23 10:13 PM And that's OK with you? So by your rationale women shouldn't be allowed into sporting events. Or pubs where there's a sport event being shown? mr2tony - 2013-01-24 3:08 PM Oh and with regard to the article to which you've linked, are you implying that if a woman is in a combat zone then she's going to get raped? In other words, you're saying anytime there's a pumped up group of men, that those men aren't going to be expected to control themselves if a woman is present? So, basically, you're saying that if a woman goes in with that group or is put in with that group, then she's going to be raped? Explain that because it makes no sense to me. Dude. I don't know where you're from (or when, I should say) but where I'm from that's NOT OK. Pack mentality exists - it just does. Even walking down a street as a woman - I see a group of lads or men after a football match or after a few drinks - I worry. It's a fact. Oh hold on where did I type that? Of course it's not okay - Geez. BUT it's a fact - until you can walk in our shoes you cannot judge. Of course we go to sporting events of course we go to pubs but let me tell you as a woman you have to have your wits about you at all times. You have to be aware, you have to be safe - you travel with friends where you can. I live in Melbourne it's a safe city - rape and murder still happen. Just because I say it happens does not mean I am okay with it. You're nuts! Man you're good at putting words in people's mouths. Do I find it acceptable no. BUT it is a fact - or am I imagining the number of rapes that happen every day. Do you know anyone who has been raped? It is a very sad fact of life, it happens. Of course of the men I know I expect them to treat women with respect. I don't know all the men in the world. I don't know those drunken louts walking out of the pub as I walk past. I cannot expect them to treat me with respect. I would rather act with caution than suffer the ordeal of rape.
No I work with guys and I'm not scared. I personally wouldn't put myself in the position to find out. OK so let's say your boss came to you and said `If you stay in your job, these men can't be expected to control themselves, so you're fired.' How would you feel about that? |
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