Snowden again.. Why? (Page 5)
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't think modern digital data CAN be dumped....it exists somewhere no matter where you dump it from. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain I don't think modern digital data CAN be dumped....it exists somewhere no matter where you dump it from. Everywhere I have worked we've had data retention policies. That does not mean they were always followed. However tracking digital data used to be much easier. You backed up to tape or some other storage device, made short term and long term archives, and rotated them periodically. Companies like Iron Mountain would literally pick up boxes of tapes and store them for you. Now that disk space is so cheap it's easier to distribute data across redundant systems, like in the Amazon AWS cloud. So bits and pieces of your data could sit on thousands of drives across multiple data centers. There is no one physical location anymore, which is both good and bad for data security. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain I don't think modern digital data CAN be dumped....it exists somewhere no matter where you dump it from. Everywhere I have worked we've had data retention policies. That does not mean they were always followed. However tracking digital data used to be much easier. You backed up to tape or some other storage device, made short term and long term archives, and rotated them periodically. Companies like Iron Mountain would literally pick up boxes of tapes and store them for you. Now that disk space is so cheap it's easier to distribute data across redundant systems, like in the Amazon AWS cloud. So bits and pieces of your data could sit on thousands of drives across multiple data centers. There is no one physical location anymore, which is both good and bad for data security. I'm not that saavy on how it's done.....I just know that if we dig long enough and turn over enough rocks we can usually find what we want. We worked a murder a few months ago that was video'd on an I-phone and then erased......the experts had to go through encription.....but we got it. And if you use Wi-fi......you can dump from your instrument....that doesn't mean the data isn't there within the IP address. I know that from watching the child porn guys do their work. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Tupuppy is right about 6 degree thing. A friend of mine when she was a child used to live in Saudi Arabia., Compound she lived on with several other families was owned by the Bin Ladin family. Two of her childhood friends who she still talks to are the sons of some now dead dictator that was very cruel. Sure those sons wanted nothing to do with there father,had no contact with him, and were 2 out of 60 kids that man had but under those rules her and I should still be suspect. As a mater of fact I think that means everyone on this board should be spyed on by the NSA. All in the name of "Freedom". |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain I don't think modern digital data CAN be dumped....it exists somewhere no matter where you dump it from. Everywhere I have worked we've had data retention policies. That does not mean they were always followed. However tracking digital data used to be much easier. You backed up to tape or some other storage device, made short term and long term archives, and rotated them periodically. Companies like Iron Mountain would literally pick up boxes of tapes and store them for you. Now that disk space is so cheap it's easier to distribute data across redundant systems, like in the Amazon AWS cloud. So bits and pieces of your data could sit on thousands of drives across multiple data centers. There is no one physical location anymore, which is both good and bad for data security. I'm not that saavy on how it's done.....I just know that if we dig long enough and turn over enough rocks we can usually find what we want. We worked a murder a few months ago that was video'd on an I-phone and then erased......the experts had to go through encription.....but we got it. And if you use Wi-fi......you can dump from your instrument....that doesn't mean the data isn't there within the IP address. I know that from watching the child porn guys do their work. Yep, that's metadata. You don't necessarily have the actual original data, but you know everything around it. When it was sent, where it was sent, size of files or duration of call, approximate location by cell tower or IP provider (or better now that everyone uses smart phones and location services), etc. And once you have that you can start backtracking and find out where the original data may have come from and ended up. People love to bash government workers as lazy or too dumb to work in the real world, but that's simply not true. You also get the best and the brightest because you can work on fascinating, difficult problems of great importance and societal impact. That was true when I was at NIH and working on the human genome project, and I have no doubt it also applies to NSA, where they also have a 'brave new world' of data to explore. Like with the human genome project, these data can be used to effect enormous public good or it could also be used to inflict serious harm. In 1990, as the human genome project was being established, NIH also formed the ELSI (ethical, legal, social implications) research group to ask those hard questions and establish guidelines for how the data would be used. Something NSA (and the borader intelligence community) needs to do. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly Originally posted by Left Brain I don't think modern digital data CAN be dumped....it exists somewhere no matter where you dump it from. Everywhere I have worked we've had data retention policies. That does not mean they were always followed. However tracking digital data used to be much easier. You backed up to tape or some other storage device, made short term and long term archives, and rotated them periodically. Companies like Iron Mountain would literally pick up boxes of tapes and store them for you. Now that disk space is so cheap it's easier to distribute data across redundant systems, like in the Amazon AWS cloud. So bits and pieces of your data could sit on thousands of drives across multiple data centers. There is no one physical location anymore, which is both good and bad for data security. I'm not that saavy on how it's done.....I just know that if we dig long enough and turn over enough rocks we can usually find what we want. We worked a murder a few months ago that was video'd on an I-phone and then erased......the experts had to go through encription.....but we got it. And if you use Wi-fi......you can dump from your instrument....that doesn't mean the data isn't there within the IP address. I know that from watching the child porn guys do their work. Now, this I do know a lot about. So when data is written to a device such as a hard drive, thumb drive, or whatever, it simply manipulates the storage material to form a series of 1's and 0's. On hard drive plates they use magnetism, and on thumb drives you have a gabillion EEPROM's that are manipulated. Every file that's written to a storage device such as resume.doc has a pointer to that file that's stored in the directory structure on the hard drive. The operating system just looks at these pointers to determine what files are available or not. When you delete a file, you don't actually delete the 1's and 0's of the file, the operating system just deletes the pointer to the file. So when guys like LB's computer crew comes in, they just run software that looks at all the raw files on the drive and can typically recover most files. After a pointer is deleted, the space that is in use becomes available to be used again, so the longer a file sits deleted, the higher the probability of the space being over written with new 1's and 0's for the new file which then essentially deletes the old file for good. To get even geekier, there are some capabilities with various media to see traces of data prior to them being overwritten, so in some rare cases a file can be recovered even after it was overwritten. There are programs out there that do securely delete files from a computer. What they do is they over write the actual file data with new random data multiple times and then they delete the file pointer. So then the file is truly deleted. However, some investigators such as the Child Porn teams LB mentioned can build a strong case with other evidence such as this IP address that was assigned to you showed a large amount of pictures downloaded over the past several months. When we looked at your computer it didn't have any images, but there was a secure delete program installed and large areas of space on your hard drive that have random data showing that you deleted a lot of files securely. So, even using the secure delete can incriminate you in other ways. I've been heavily involved in some investigations from the network side as well. You'd be amazed at how much us IT types have visibility into. This is part of the reason I'm not a big fan of the government openly monitoring citizens data. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by chirunner134 Tupuppy is right about 6 degree thing. A friend of mine when she was a child used to live in Saudi Arabia., Compound she lived on with several other families was owned by the Bin Ladin family. Two of her childhood friends who she still talks to are the sons of some now dead dictator that was very cruel. Sure those sons wanted nothing to do with there father,had no contact with him, and were 2 out of 60 kids that man had but under those rules her and I should still be suspect. As a mater of fact I think that means everyone on this board should be spyed on by the NSA. All in the name of "Freedom". Great, just great. I just came here for some free Ironman advice. Now thanks to chirunner hanging with friends of friends of terrorists, I'm on the watchlist. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by kevin_trapp Originally posted by chirunner134 Tupuppy is right about 6 degree thing. A friend of mine when she was a child used to live in Saudi Arabia., Compound she lived on with several other families was owned by the Bin Ladin family. Two of her childhood friends who she still talks to are the sons of some now dead dictator that was very cruel. Sure those sons wanted nothing to do with there father,had no contact with him, and were 2 out of 60 kids that man had but under those rules her and I should still be suspect. As a mater of fact I think that means everyone on this board should be spyed on by the NSA. All in the name of "Freedom". Great, just great. I just came here for some free Ironman advice. Now thanks to chirunner hanging with friends of friends of terrorists, I'm on the watchlist. just goes to show never leave your house, never talk to anyone, and then maybe you will be safe. Unless of course you get pegged as the quite loner type. You just cannot win. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() People love to bash government workers as lazy or too dumb to work in the real world, but that's simply not true. You also get the best and the brightest because you can work on fascinating, difficult problems of great importance and societal impact. That was true when I was at NIH and working on the human genome project, and I have no doubt it also applies to NSA, where they also have a 'brave new world' of data to explore. Like with the human genome project, these data can be used to effect enormous public good or it could also be used to inflict serious harm. In 1990, as the human genome project was being established, NIH also formed the ELSI (ethical, legal, social implications) research group to ask those hard questions and establish guidelines for how the data would be used. Something NSA (and the borader intelligence community) needs to do. The NSA actually goes out of their way to monitor leading researchers in mathematics and encryption and actively recruits them. If the best and brightest are no longer working in the civilian world, well... you get the idea. Even back in the early 90s when exporting encryption technology was still illegal, the NSA was estimated to be 20 years ahead of the civilian world in their encryption knowledge. Many people today still think they maintain a large advantage. That's why it was a big deal when the DES algorithm was cracked by a big distributed network of enthusiast computers. Basically saying: look a bunch of us with no money cracked the "standard" encryption. The NSA with a virtually unlimited budget and dedicated hardware could not only do this, but do it fast and easily. This caused a big effort industry-wide to upgrade systems to be stronger. This let us do things we take for granted today: online shopping, banking, you name it. But we hear repeats of the scenario all the time. New weaknesses are discovered in hashing and encryption methods. Every time we find one, we have to assume the NSA knew about it for a long time. I'm not saying that's good or bad... just that it's the nature of an organization that DEDICATES itself to doing this kind of work. There is no comparison in the civilian world. |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Interesting article at the Post. I like the way they can violate the law by saying it was just human error and all is well. I know what would happen to us mere serfs if we use that defense if we break the law. The whole mess including oversight is out of control. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-broke-pri... Edited by NXS 2013-08-16 9:30 AM |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by tuwood
That's awesome. Worked for Bush.... I keep saying, Obama is just Bush 2.0 |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by JoshR I would be upset with this if Romney or Obama or Gary Johnson (the guy I voted for) had won the presidency. Our government is so corrupt I guarantee this info is being used inappropriately. For the record I read CNN and Foxnews daily and both sites had this story published. Oh what's that? It seems it already has been. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R2... Since we're posting pictures today (Miranda Warning.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Miranda Warning.jpg (41KB - 17 downloads) |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by JoshR I would be upset with this if Romney or Obama or Gary Johnson (the guy I voted for) had won the presidency. Our government is so corrupt I guarantee this info is being used inappropriately. For the record I read CNN and Foxnews daily and both sites had this story published. Oh what's that? It seems it already has been. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R2... Since we're posting pictures today Wait a minute... that guy in the uniform kinda looks like LB... |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by JoshR I would be upset with this if Romney or Obama or Gary Johnson (the guy I voted for) had won the presidency. Our government is so corrupt I guarantee this info is being used inappropriately. For the record I read CNN and Foxnews daily and both sites had this story published. Oh what's that? It seems it already has been. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R2... Since we're posting pictures today Wait a minute... that guy in the uniform kinda looks like LB... Is that guy in handcuffs one of your kids? |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() A very good piece in the WSJ by Peggy Noonan on the ramifications of NSA domestic spying. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323639704579015101857... |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by tuwood Is that guy in handcuffs one of your kids? Originally posted by JoshR Originally posted by JoshR I would be upset with this if Romney or Obama or Gary Johnson (the guy I voted for) had won the presidency. Our government is so corrupt I guarantee this info is being used inappropriately. For the record I read CNN and Foxnews daily and both sites had this story published. Oh what's that? It seems it already has been. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R2... Since we're posting pictures today Wait a minute... that guy in the uniform kinda looks like LB... lol, for the record none of them have been arrested or detained yet. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/19/world/europe/greenwald-partner-detain... I'm curious how he means to go about his threat. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Anybody going to watch the Brian Williams/Snowden interview tonight? I'm going to watch. I'm a Williams fan, so I will be interested if nothing else to see how Brian handles the interview. |
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