BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-CLOSED Rss Feed  
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2013-12-22 4:18 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Originally posted by wannabefaster
I had a really nice swim lesson this morning (I have been trying to do this every Sunday morning) followed by a tough swim set. The high school boys were doing a 'make-up' workout that they had missed yesterday because of an ice storm. It is both inspiring and humbling to be in the pool with a bunch of teenagers that can effortlessly out swim me. Very short run and the rest of the day is hanging out with friends who are visiting from out of town.

Speaking of humbling, I actually had a guy fly by me just kicking with a kickboard while I was freestyle swimming yesterday. He was seriously fast...


2013-12-22 5:40 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

NAME: SSMinnow/Suzy

STORY:   Watched IM WI in my hometown of Madison WI in 2002. Decided I wanted to do it one day. Only problem is I rarely ran, had a hybrid bike and was deathly afraid of H20, having nearly drowned at 27 years of age. So I started running and did several marathons because it was the easiest thing to do for me.   After BQing three times I decided I needed to get serious about biking and getting over my fear of water if I was ever to do an IM. Worked my way up to a super sprint a couple years later and was hooked.   Since that time, I’ve done IM WI four times-2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013. I’m a decent runner and biker, but have been slow to catch on to swimming and still have some fear of OW.   Been doing triathlons since 2008.

FAMILY STATUS: Married for almost 25 years, no kids, one 3 year old Cockapoo-Cooper

CURRENT TRAINING: I’ve decided to make a pretty big shift for 2014. My goal is to finally improve my swimming and improve my speed on both the bike and the run so that I can get that 12:XX for IM in 2015. Rather than do the IM distance, I am focusing on short course-Olympics only. Current training is HIITS on both bike and the run while I continue my quest to be a swimmer. I’m taking periodic lessons with someone new and starting a master’s class in January.

THIS YEAR'S RACES:   I had several setbacks in 2013. I fractured four ribs falling off my bike in a windstorm in early May and then had some unexpected surgery in August. I did the Oakland marathon in March, 3:37 (2’ PR vs 2007). My only serious triathlon was IM WI. I was expecting to finally get my 12:XX, but after a bad swim (1:49 a personal worst), it was not to be and I finished in 13:34, 15 AG-50-54.   Since IM, I’ve done a lot of Fall running which I love. Won a few VERY SMALL 10ks which is always good for the soul. J

 2014 RACES:   Still in the planning stages. I would like to qualify for Nationals in Milwaukee since it is so close to Madison.  

  1. Boston in April.
  2. Mid May Oly—either Pokagon or Gateway
  3. June 7—Elkhart Lake

 We’re traveling to Alaska for two weeks in July so the rest of the calendar is in a bit of flux.

 WEIGHTLOSS:   I’m only 4’10” so I really need to watch my weight, but as of now I’m about where I need to be.

 

2013-12-22 5:45 PM
in reply to: WoodrowCall

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

Originally posted by WoodrowCall
Originally posted by wannabefaster I had a really nice swim lesson this morning (I have been trying to do this every Sunday morning) followed by a tough swim set. The high school boys were doing a 'make-up' workout that they had missed yesterday because of an ice storm. It is both inspiring and humbling to be in the pool with a bunch of teenagers that can effortlessly out swim me. Very short run and the rest of the day is hanging out with friends who are visiting from out of town.
Speaking of humbling, I actually had a guy fly by me just kicking with a kickboard while I was freestyle swimming yesterday. He was seriously fast...

At least he was seriously fast!!!

2013-12-22 5:52 PM
in reply to: GoldenSprocket

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

I did just buy Matt Fitzgerald's book " Racing Weight" so I'm trying. I swear!

I read that book this year.  I found some good nuggets in it.  If you really get into it, Matt is coming out with a pretty basic cookbook.

2013-12-22 8:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
And now comes my first question.

When it comes to bike training, what kind of weekly mileage increases would be best to employ (e.g. 5%, 10%, 15%, etc.)? I initially thought a 5 mile increase every week with a taper week every 6th week would work, but the numbers are climbing past the point where I'm beginning to think such improvement under this framework may be unrealistic.

P.S.: Sorry for the segue from swimming.

Bryan

Edited by PhoenixM 2013-12-22 8:16 PM
2013-12-22 9:58 PM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
I FOUND THE REPLY BUTTON!!!!!

Hi, guys! I'm in for another. I have a lot going on 1st half of 2014. Xterra again and training for that starts NOW.

Let me update my bio.


2013-12-23 1:51 AM
in reply to: SSMinnow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

 

Kevin - Very inspiring story! That's great you're training for your first marathon. I'm looking forward to hearing about it. Glad you're in our group!

Jason - That's cool that you have some experience with Mike P's swim workouts -- they are very challenging.

Suzy - Wow, BQ three times?!! Very impressive. Sounds like the right call to scale back a bit and put some focus on swimming and Olys... I'm sure you'll be ready for an IM again in 2015...

- Steve

2013-12-23 2:12 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3
Hi guys, I'd like to join as well.

Name: David

Story: Reforming couch potato.

Family: This is my biggest life focus for 2014. Wife, Emily, and a 2.5 year-old son, Tommy.

Training: Not much recently. I took about six weeks off, and I'm ready to get back at it.

2013: Locomotive HM, Publix Atlanta HM, Callaway Gardens Oly & IMFL

2014: Florida Keys Ragnar, Publix Atlanta HM & Callaway Gardens Oly. Looking at Augusta 70.3 or B2B plus some shorter course tri's for fun this year.

Weight Loss: I lost a little over 50 lbs between 2011 and this past November. I've put about 7-8 pounds back on since Florida, but I hope to take it back off as I get back to training. Would love to finally get down below 200 this year.
2013-12-23 6:39 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Hey guys,

If space is available I'd love to join.

Name: Jon - New Hampshire, USA

Story: I'm 32 years old. I started doing triathlon in 2012 with one sprint distance at the end of the year. I didn't really train for it like I should have, but I finished and loved it. I'm a big dude, 6'6" right now about 240, I've always played baseball, basketball, golf, something where I get to hit a ball or use my height to my advantage so triathlon absolutely crushed my dreams when I started in terms of how slow I was and not able to just use coordination and my arm to do well. I joined a mentor group last year and it was really helpful and I honestly enjoyed the time with everyone in the group.

Family: My wife and I have been married for almost 5 years, we have a 2 1/2 year old son (avatar pic of him at 1 yo) who was actually born on our second anniversary. He's awesome, he loves watching me leave and come back on my bike and he's my golfing buddy already. My wife is really active with home work outs and I'm kind of trying to get her to do a tri. We just bought our 2nd house this year (rent out our other one). I'm a mechanical engineer, she's a high school Spanish teacher. We're both crazy busy with everything, especially Cameron our 2 year old, but it's all worth it.

Training: I workout. 2013 was my first year really training and I just kind of went by feel. I really only started swimming in January and started going 2-3 times a week and really saw some great improvement. I try to get in 5-7 workouts per week, with my swims being more limited to 30-45 minutes during lunch at the Y down the street. I'll double up the workouts with either a run or bike at night, but in the winter the running around here can be sketchy. I signed up for a Silver membership here so I can schedule upcoming weeks just to know what I have coming up.

Weight loss/gain: I'm 240, but at 6'6" it doesn't look like it. I've lost about 10-15 lbs just from training more diligently. I'd love to be under 230 for race season this year. After the holidays when the parties finally stop I have no doubt I can get down there.

2013 races: I did 4 sprints and a HM in 2013. The year was all about learning for me. First 2 sprints I had terrible runs, which were partly due to not training the run because of an injury, but my 3rd race I actually trained for and have a much better time. 4th race, which was the same race I did in 2012, I ended up getting 3rd place in my division (Clydesdale) which was really nice. I trained for it and beat my time the previous year by I think over 11 minutes. I did a HM in October and met my primary and secondary goal, although that was also a big learning experience in pacing and training. I also did an indoor tri a few weeks ago and got 1st overall, but I think there were only 12 people in total haha. It was fun though and now everyone at the Y is gunning for me.

2014: I'm stepping up my distance. Sprint in May, Oly in June and HIM in September. I have the distances, especially for the Oly, but I really want to challenge myself for a HIM. I have numbers in my head right now, but with a strong training year I know I can crush it. I'll probably throw in an early season HM and some 10ks and road races of the sort just to keep pushing myself for the summer.

Why I'll make a good mentee: Since I'm only 2-3 years into this whole tri adventure it's all still so new to me. I'm constantly amazed at the blazing times people come up with and the determination of everyone in these groups. I feel like being in a mentor group keeps you honest with your training. Triathlon is so individual that it's nice to know you have people along for the ride with you even if you're not actually training with them in person. I love reading race reports and feeling that connection with people. I'm surprised at what I've learned over the last year or two, so sometimes I doubt that I have the knowledge when I actually might.

Looking forward to being in the group!
2013-12-23 8:15 AM
in reply to: jonD81

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

Blanda-welcome back.....glutton for punishment to put up with us again.

David and jonD81/Jon-thanks for joining. Looks like we have 2 Jons: Jondpond and jonD81  

By my count that gives us 15 including Jason and myself. We will add a few more since we have some returning from the previous group and we always lose a few over the course of the group.

2013-12-23 8:24 AM
in reply to: PhoenixM

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

Originally posted by PhoenixM And now comes my first question. When it comes to bike training, what kind of weekly mileage increases would be best to employ (e.g. 5%, 10%, 15%, etc.)? I initially thought a 5 mile increase every week with a taper week every 6th week would work, but the numbers are climbing past the point where I'm beginning to think such improvement under this framework may be unrealistic. P.S.: Sorry for the segue from swimming. Bryan

Seems like the prevailing wisdom is that increases in running volume need to be more conservative than in biking and swimming. I think that's accurate as long as the increase in biking/swimming isn't drastic in intensity. Swimming and biking do not have the impact on the body that running does. In general our bodies can recover more quickly from biking and swimming workouts. That is not to say that you can't have some accumulated fatigue from biking and swimming but it is not as likely to lead to injury as ramping up too quickly with running. However, as with any physical activity you can still get overuse injuries from swimming/biking. Seems that the limiter for alot of people when they first start biking consistently is building up time in the saddle....takes some time to build some butt endurance Hope that helps.  



2013-12-23 8:31 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

Steve-Mike Plumb was my first coach when I got into triathlon. I thought I recognized his swim workouts. Mike is hard to beat for the value he provides.

On the unpleasant topic of swimming....mine sucked this morning. WARNING: I will periodically, or sometimes more often, complain about how bad my swimming is and swimming in general. Feel free to skip over these posts if they get annoying...trust me they will.

SO,felt like absolute crap in the water from the first lap this morning. Most of the time I feel great on the first lap as I glide through the water with the grace of Michael Phelps. Not today. HR was high even during warm up and felt like I was thrashing the water throughout the workout. On the positive side I don't swim again until Friday.....maybe, just maybe there will be a new and improved swim stroke under the tree on Wed. Not likely as I don't think I mad it on the "Good" list this year.

2013-12-23 8:40 AM
in reply to: PhoenixM

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Originally posted by PhoenixM

And now comes my first question.

When it comes to bike training, what kind of weekly mileage increases would be best to employ (e.g. 5%, 10%, 15%, etc.)? I initially thought a 5 mile increase every week with a taper week every 6th week would work, but the numbers are climbing past the point where I'm beginning to think such improvement under this framework may be unrealistic.

P.S.: Sorry for the segue from swimming.

Bryan


I would say that it should be dictated a lot by your goals. I checked out your intro, but I didn't see any tri-related races in the near future. So, what are your goals on the bike? Do you want to be faster, go longer, or both? If so, what distance do you want to be able to handle? I ask because averaging 23 mph in a sprint race is a great goal, but entirely different than averaging 18-20 in an IM-distance.
2013-12-23 9:07 AM
in reply to: PhoenixM

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Originally posted by PhoenixM

And now comes my first question.

When it comes to bike training, what kind of weekly mileage increases would be best to employ (e.g. 5%, 10%, 15%, etc.)? I initially thought a 5 mile increase every week with a taper week every 6th week would work, but the numbers are climbing past the point where I'm beginning to think such improvement under this framework may be unrealistic.

P.S.: Sorry for the segue from swimming.

Bryan


You are allowed to segue at any point in time. I am very swimming focused right now so I have a tendency to prattle on about it.

To expand on what Randy said, it is pretty difficult (but not impossible) to injure yourself biking so people tolerate big increases in biking volume much better than they do increases in running. I don't believe that many quote the 10% rule for biking like they do for running. As Randy mentioned, saddle discomfort is often the limiter for lengthening out bike rides. The other limiter becomes time. Most of us do not have the time to ride 10-15 THOUSAND miles per year like really competitive cyclists do. We add in intensity instead of volume to compensate. Instead of an easy hour on the bike I would do a 10 minute warm up, 20 minutes uncomfortably hard, 5 minutes easy, 20 minutes uncomfortably hard, 5 minute cool down. Or, 5 minutes hard, 2 minutes easy and repeat x 8. Or any number of interval training sessions that will elevate my heart rate and get me sweating. The training load of riding hard like that is significantly more than just riding along.
2013-12-23 9:10 AM
in reply to: WoodrowCall

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Originally posted by WoodrowCall

Originally posted by wannabefaster
I had a really nice swim lesson this morning (I have been trying to do this every Sunday morning) followed by a tough swim set. The high school boys were doing a 'make-up' workout that they had missed yesterday because of an ice storm. It is both inspiring and humbling to be in the pool with a bunch of teenagers that can effortlessly out swim me. Very short run and the rest of the day is hanging out with friends who are visiting from out of town.

Speaking of humbling, I actually had a guy fly by me just kicking with a kickboard while I was freestyle swimming yesterday. He was seriously fast...


There is a video on the internet somewhere around here of Charlie Houchin (ex University of Michigan swimmer) kicking a 400 in 4:56. That is 50 seconds faster than I swim 400 and is totally depressing.
2013-12-23 9:11 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Randy,

Sorry to hear about your swim this morning. I felt pretty good yesterday and my swims seem to go in a good/bad pattern so I am expecting this afternoon to be tough.


2013-12-23 9:21 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

Originally posted by wannabefaster Randy, Sorry to hear about your swim this morning. I felt pretty good yesterday and my swims seem to go in a good/bad pattern so I am expecting this afternoon to be tough.

Thanks Jason. I feel better now knowing that a guy can do a 400 kick set a good bit faster than my 400 best freestyle. Real confidence builder buddy!  

2013-12-23 10:10 AM
in reply to: WoodrowCall

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Right now, my primary goal is simply to build a base up. I happened to run into my cyclist friend last night on Facebook and she was able to help me out significantly with the riding progression. Whether that will work in the context of triathlons, I don't know; it was certainly better than I had initially.

As far as timing goes, that's a bit tricky. It's basically revolving around three things:

1) Running a Spring Tri in September (classes and/or lack of means to get to one prevents it from happening sooner)
2) Atlanta half marathon in late November
3) Half-Century

But you already know all of that. My emphasis in all of this is more distance than intensity. Once that goal is reached, the intensity part will begin kicking in.

Cycling: I'm set through the beginning of 2015 with the half century, at which point I want to taper off towards the intensity route to be able to do either 30-40 miles at a time, or maintain the endurance to do so. I'm graduating next December from college, so the timing could not have been any better on the half-century goal.

Running: Found a plan that brings me to half-marathon status by the end of July, but with a nearly 4 month gap between the end of the plan and event day, I'm having difficulty figuring out how to maintain the same endurance.

Swimming....you got me. I haven't swam in any body of water for at least two years, so I don't have a clue how to structure things with that.

I've been working with an excel spreadsheet to figure all this out for 2014 for the past couple days (yes, I plan stuff out...sue me :P). If anyone wants to take a look at it and give some counsel on what can and can't work, I'm wide open to it.

Marks of an amateur, I know. But we gotta start somewhere.

Bryan
2013-12-23 11:01 AM
in reply to: PhoenixM

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
I'm BACK!

MtnBikerChk/MBC/Randee

Story: Turned 40 last year and started off the year from a stress fracture which left me with nothing to do but swim. Since my background is in cycling and my husband loves running, I figured "why not try a tri?" So 10 sprints later, here I am I had no real training program and my goals were always to finish which I was successful at (I was also healing my leg in the process). This winter I want to keep up my fitness and focus on running because that is my weakness. Well, that and the MENTAL pat of swimming.

Family: Married for 12 years. 1 Dog, 2 cats and my husband who is a marathoner and a cyclist. I can't get him to swim but he's always up for a good duathlon.

Training: I have the Gale Bernhardt training for multisport athletes that I'm loosely following during the off season but plan to hit hard come March. I'm a CPA so February to April is brutal for me. No matter how hard I try, I always lose something because I work so much and I'm just too damn tired LOL

2014-MY A race is the Pumpkiman HIM in Maine in September 2014. For early season I'm registered as a relay team for the Patriot HIM in MA in June. I will be swimming because I need to just have one good long distance swim without having to worry about the biking and running. There are a few Olys on the calendar but none are paid for yet.

2013 Season: 10 sprints and a few other things in there. You can check me out on Athlinks.


Everything else:
Currently shopping for a Tri bike and driving everyone insane in the process so prepare yourselves.

I use Hammer Nutrition products and in October I saw they were taking sponsorship applications so I figured "what the hell?" Well I don't really know how competitive the field is but I was accepted to their Tier 3 program so YAY ME - It's a start I guess My overall finishes have generally not been impressive but I do tend to place well in the bike.

Looking forward to 2014!!

2013-12-23 11:12 AM
in reply to: mtnbikerchk

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN

Randee-we welcome you and your bike buying dilemma back to the group. You know I am more than happy to spend your $$.

2013-12-23 11:21 AM
in reply to: mtnbikerchk

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Welcome to my misery with the bike buying brigade. Not going tri-bike, but sometimes road bikes can be just as bad.


2013-12-23 11:26 AM
in reply to: mtnbikerchk

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Randee I was looking at Pumpkin Man too but I think I might lean towards the Rev3 at Old Orchard in Maine which is two weeks earlier.
2013-12-23 1:00 PM
in reply to: jonD81

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Originally posted by jonD81

Randee I was looking at Pumpkin Man too but I think I might lean towards the Rev3 at Old Orchard in Maine which is two weeks earlier.


Old Orchard is an ocean swim - and that scares me Although I hear Rev3 puts on a good race.

I'm in CT and there is one near me in May. I might do the OLY that weekend. I hear it's a hilly bike course. BRING IT ON! LOL
2013-12-23 1:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Name: Gregg - Rochester, New Hampshire, USA

Story: I am an over eater and workaholic and have been for years. Sometimes having 2 jobs and doing side work. 50-60 hour weeks are common and a few times I have hit 70. Needless to say exercise was not on my list of things to do. I topped out at 290 lbs 5’11”
I think it was around 2007 I started mountain biking, found a forum and made some friends. Probably by 2010 I had a friend invite me to ride a century for Bike MS. I had never been on a road bike or worn spandex before. I went out and purchased a well-used Fuji aluminum race bike.
I started riding and quickly realized 100 miles was going to be rough on my body due to the position and vibration. So I did some “creative” financing and purchased a left over 2009 Specialized Roubaix at a pretty good discount. I started training for the MS ride and really liked being a roadie and not having to lather up with bug spray or scrap mud off my bike and body was a plus. I made it through the ride and raised some money for a good cause.
I joined a local cycling club and started doing shop rides. I made some friends there and made a best friend as well.
I March 2011 I has helping my friend with some bike repairs. She says to me “I’m going to pay you for helping me by signing you up for a 5k in May”. I haven’t run since 1993 when they made me run a mile on the track for physed class. I said “You want me to fun 3.2 miles”.
So I stared running. I made it through the whole 5k thing without walking. I kept training and proceeded to run a few more 5k’s, a 4 miler, 10k and by November 2011 had run a Half marathon in just over 2 hours. I kept running and training and ran the Newport RI marathon in Oct. 2012 in 4:57.
After that first half I found a local running club. I joined and started doing group runs. At the local running store’s club night in December 2011 I won a raffle prize. A FREE entry into the 2012 Pumpkinman Sprint Tri. I said “I don’t swim”. So now it was off to the pool to learn to swim. I was able to get through a ½ mile in the pool without dying. I have continued to swim with friends in open water and group classes.
I made it through my first tri and kept training through the winter. In 2013 I completed 2 Olympics, 4 sprints. Podiumed in both Oly’s in the Clydesdale class and missed 3rd in my age group at Pumpkinman sprint 2013 by 16 seconds.

2014: I have put a deposit on a Tri Bike and I have signed up the Ft Lauderdale A1A marathon in February and the VT City marathon in May. Also signed up for the Patriot Half Iron Tri in June. This will be my first half. Hope to get 2 more Oly’s in and a few sprints and the Pumpkinman Challange (sprint on Saturday and the Half on Sunday). Maybe a Full in 2015.

Family: My wife and I have been married for 13 years, we have a 10 year old son. She had started running and completed a half marathon a year ago but had since had a back injury and gained some weight. She mostly lets me have free time to get workouts in but sometimes get jealous of all the fun things I get to do.

Training: I try to get in the pool at least an hour during the week and a 2 hour class on Sundays. Get to spin class once a week and try to get in 15-20 miles a week. Been tough since the weather turned cold and snowy. Really hate the treadmill.

Weight loss/gain: I'm 265, and 5’11”. I'd love to be under 250. New Year’s resolution…… Would also be nice since I have my 20th class reunion in July.

So here I am. More active and in the best shape of my life. I keep doing what I though was impossible and want to continue to push myself. I just lack time and motivation so I cling to groups to keep me going.


Edited by greggah 2013-12-23 1:47 PM
2013-12-23 1:40 PM
in reply to: greggah

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Group version 3-OPEN
Originally posted by greggah

Name: Gregg - Rochester, New Hampshire, USA



2014: I have put a deposit on a Tri Bike and I have signed up the Ft Lauderdale A1A marathon in February and the VT City marathon in May. Also signed up for the Patriot Half Iron Tri in June. This will be my first half. Hope to get 2 more Oly’s in and a few sprints and another Half by fall. Maybe a Full in 2015.




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author : Ontherun
comments : 0
For most age-group triathletes, getting the most out of there time for quality workouts can be daunting. Think outside the triangle to get a little more.
date : November 27, 2005
author : Rich Strauss
comments : 0
Tri clubs offer all of us, from beginner to advanced athlete, a venue in which we can realign our perspective of what “fast” and “far” are, pushing us to new and greater heights of performance.
 
date : September 5, 2004
author : Team BT
comments : 0
The start of the race I had the jitters. I was watching the other age groups start as they seeded the swim with over 1000 participants.