Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

Master

2094

Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

Originally posted by Danno77

Originally posted by Oysterboy

Something not mentioned above is the gain of control that comes with being attached to the bike at your feet. Perhaps more impt in MTB, but I would not feel as comfortable on the road using a pedal where my foot could easily come off the pedal.

This is how I feel about it, too. Once I experienced them on my mtn bike, I could never go back. On the road bike, the need is less, but it is certainly there. On smooth, even cycling I don't have a problem, but if I feel the need to put some power down, I'd experience some liftoff for sure, even on my fixie, the cages just don't feel the same as the clipless on my race bike.

I don't want to go off-topic but I feel the opposite about mountain bikes. I used egg beaters on my mountain bike and after multiple miserable experiences involving blood, I have gone back to platforms. I suck at mountain biking. There is little chance you will catch me on flat pedals on the road. Being firmly attached to the pedal gives you complete control of the power transfer.

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100

Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

I think there is absolutely no question that being "clipped" into the pedals is a better overall concept than your feet just resting on top of the pedals. Of course this is just my opinion, but I don't see how you would race hard without them. The "upstroke" power from your hammys is substantial, in keeping a steady spin motion, instead of just "mashing" down on the pedals. Why someone would say this is not needed or better yet a big industry conspiracy is beyond me. Again, just one man's opinion.

Of course, you can do whatever you want. You can do an Oly without being "clipped" in. Lots of people do I'm sure. But for maximum performance I sure as hell would get connected to my bike! It's a huge difference, IMHO.

Full disclosure: Cycling for only 3 years, with only 3 sprint tri's. But "clipped in" the whole time!

22	Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance? so I got the clips and right away I could see the extra power. It added two MPH to my pace. Thank you for the Advice

152

Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

getting my first clips tomorrow, was surprised they even made them in my size (16 US)

First question, do most people ride in these sockless? reason I ask is all of the transition videos I have watched have guys hoping on the bike and putting on the clips without them

100

Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

Well, think of who is getting the coverage here. Pro racers, as well as "semi-pro" age groupers are at a totally different level than your average age grouper. At that level, shaving seconds off their time is important. If they miss the first group coming off the swim, their race may be over. Until you or I get to that point, going sockless is not really that important. That being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with you doing it, as long as you train and change gear accordingly.

The shorter the race, the more important it is to minimize transition times. So sprints and even international distance races are where this technique CAN make you money. For your iron distances, sure you see the pros still doing it, but for us earth people, perhaps it's more important to be comfortable with socks, than risk the problems that may arise without them.

Going sockless basically allows you to transition from swimming to biking very quickly. We're talking 10-15 second transitions here. These folks actually clip their shoes into their pedals and just hop on and pedal with their feet resting on top of the shoes. They then slip into their shoes as soon as possible (but while making forward progress vs being static). This is a very advanced technique, requiring excellent bike handling skills and much practice.

Then, when transitioning from bike to run, you take your feet out of the shoes, rest on top of them, and dismount barefoot on the fly. A specialized running shoe is then used, that is optimized for sockless running, with smooth inside seam construction. Some even have a sock-like liner. Needless to say, your have to train extensively without socks to pull this off, especially in iron distance races.

So, if you're doing sprints, or even an international, going sockless may be for you. If you're doing a half or full ironman, maybe consider doing your first one(s) in socks and going from there. Just my opinion but it's what I plan on doing. But again, until your are competitive in your age group, shaving a few seconds off your transition times, when your swim, bike, and run times are unremarkable, is like insulating the back door tight, while the front door is wide open. But hey, if that's what you want to do, then go for it. It looks cool as hell, and will sure get you style points!

Bottom line, very specialized tri racing technique. If you do group rides with roadies, you might want to consider blending in with socks and shoes, like everyone else- or not. If you train with a tri group, let your freak flag fly, get all into that sockless thang- or not. Up to you.

152

Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

Originally posted by NewDiz

Well, think of who is getting the coverage here. Pro racers, as well as "semi-pro" age groupers are at a totally different level than your average age grouper. At that level, shaving seconds off their time is important. If they miss the first group coming off the swim, their race may be over. Until you or I get to that point, going sockless is not really that important. That being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with you doing it, as long as you train and change gear accordingly.

The shorter the race, the more important it is to minimize transition times. So sprints and even international distance races are where this technique CAN make you money. For your iron distances, sure you see the pros still doing it, but for us earth people, perhaps it's more important to be comfortable with socks, than risk the problems that may arise without them.

Going sockless basically allows you to transition from swimming to biking very quickly. We're talking 10-15 second transitions here. These folks actually clip their shoes into their pedals and just hop on and pedal with their feet resting on top of the shoes. They then slip into their shoes as soon as possible (but while making forward progress vs being static). This is a very advanced technique, requiring excellent bike handling skills and much practice.

Then, when transitioning from bike to run, you take your feet out of the shoes, rest on top of them, and dismount barefoot on the fly. A specialized running shoe is then used, that is optimized for sockless running, with smooth inside seam construction. Some even have a sock-like liner. Needless to say, your have to train extensively without socks to pull this off, especially in iron distance races.

So, if you're doing sprints, or even an international, going sockless may be for you. If you're doing a half or full ironman, maybe consider doing your first one(s) in socks and going from there. Just my opinion but it's what I plan on doing. But again, until your are competitive in your age group, shaving a few seconds off your transition times, when your swim, bike, and run times are unremarkable, is like insulating the back door tight, while the front door is wide open. But hey, if that's what you want to do, then go for it. It looks cool as hell, and will sure get you style points!

Bottom line, very specialized tri racing technique. If you do group rides with roadies, you might want to consider blending in with socks and shoes, like everyone else- or not. If you train with a tri group, let your freak flag fly, get all into that sockless thang- or not. Up to you.

Very good break down, thanks

Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by sirdizzy Yes, less loss of power and you get the up stroke and downstroke it will add 1-2 mph average on your biking.

Clipped in shoes will help in comfort, but I'd like to know where you came up with the notion that you gain power on the upstroke and that gained power will result in 1-2 mph. I'd say somewhere closer to 0.1-0.2 mph in gained speed if at all. More so if you're riding a course that requires out of the saddle accelerations or climbs so steep that your cadence significantly drops and exposes the dead spots in your stroke.

If you don't believe me, switch back to platforms and report back if your speed drops significantly. I've done many short errands where I don't want to put on bike shoes and just ride with my flip flops over the pedals. Again, other than comfort and worrying about my foot slipping off (less likely with platforms and shoes), I don't notice much difference in speed at all.

I know a girl who won the women's division of a time trial in her walking shoes because she forgot her bike shoes at home. She's fast, but not 1-2 mph faster than the competition to make up for not having bike shoes.

ETA: OP, all that said, it's still worth it. But more about comfort and simplicity than anything else.

Jackmott just posted a link in ST of this video from GCN that did a little n=1 experiment with clipless vs flat pedals with the intention of proving that clipless is more efficient. The results...not so much.

Just thought I'd update this thread as it's a topic that seems to come up every few months among beginners and their experiences with clipless. Again, I would highly recommend them for comfort and control, but not to expect significant speed gains.

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Expert

2355

Madison, Wisconsin

Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by sirdizzy Yes, less loss of power and you get the up stroke and downstroke it will add 1-2 mph average on your biking.

Clipped in shoes will help in comfort, but I'd like to know where you came up with the notion that you gain power on the upstroke and that gained power will result in 1-2 mph. I'd say somewhere closer to 0.1-0.2 mph in gained speed if at all. More so if you're riding a course that requires out of the saddle accelerations or climbs so steep that your cadence significantly drops and exposes the dead spots in your stroke.

If you don't believe me, switch back to platforms and report back if your speed drops significantly. I've done many short errands where I don't want to put on bike shoes and just ride with my flip flops over the pedals. Again, other than comfort and worrying about my foot slipping off (less likely with platforms and shoes), I don't notice much difference in speed at all.

I know a girl who won the women's division of a time trial in her walking shoes because she forgot her bike shoes at home. She's fast, but not 1-2 mph faster than the competition to make up for not having bike shoes.

ETA: OP, all that said, it's still worth it. But more about comfort and simplicity than anything else.

Jackmott just posted a link in ST of this video from GCN that did a little n=1 experiment with clipless vs flat pedals with the intention of proving that clipless is more efficient. The results...not so much.

Just thought I'd update this thread as it's a topic that seems to come up every few months among beginners and their experiences with clipless. Again, I would highly recommend them for comfort and control, but not to expect significant speed gains.

But, but but, how i am supposed to do my single-leg spin drills?

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Subject: RE: Clips worth it over cycling with tennis shoes? Worth it for Olympic distance?

Originally posted by bcagle25