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10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions
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| General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions | Rss Feed  |
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 2014-06-11 3:11 PM |
Pro  5169    Burbs |  Subject: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions |
| 2014-06-11 3:22 PM in reply to: trishie |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by trishie
They bring up the question of burn out? No one involved in that article knows what swimmers go through apparently. Everyone should be embracing this kid, his abilities, and his enjoyment for the sport. |
| 2014-06-11 3:24 PM in reply to: trishie |
754 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions First of all, when I was that age, I though running the mile was torture, so let's just say that some of us are late bloomers. That said, civilizations all through history have used runners for communication between towns, and they would start training them young. People rightfully point out the Native American distance running traditions, but even the European settlers to this continent used adolescent boys as runners before roads were built. And that doesn't even get into the rest of the world. We have just gotten away from that. As long as he wants to do it and gets his doctor's clearance, I say good for him. It isn't like he is being sent to work in an underground coal mine. I just wish I was that fast. |
| 2014-06-11 3:33 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by bcagle25 They bring up the question of burn out? No one involved in that article knows what swimmers go through apparently. Are you suggesting youth swim clubs don't closely monitor and try to address the potential for burn out? I didn't see any cautions in the article that should be dismissed as ill-advised. Cautioning parents of dedicated young athletes to pay attention to injury risks and generally overdoing it at young ages is a good thing. |
| 2014-06-11 4:52 PM in reply to: trishie |
1660 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions I doubt he's even close to burnout. Most youth runners, even the most competitive runs, don't even run 10 hours per week. Not saying they should, but that's a far cry from tennis prodigies and even music prodigies who might actually log 30 hours per week or more of practice regularly even as early as age 8.
I also predict that this record will be shattered multiple times in the very near future. It's a great time, no doubt, but now that it's out there in the popular media, you're going to see a lot more kids gunning for it. |
| 2014-06-11 4:57 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by bcagle25 They bring up the question of burn out? No one involved in that article knows what swimmers go through apparently. Are you suggesting youth swim clubs don't closely monitor and try to address the potential for burn out? I didn't see any cautions in the article that should be dismissed as ill-advised. Cautioning parents of dedicated young athletes to pay attention to injury risks and generally overdoing it at young ages is a good thing. I agree with your comments and no that was not what I was saying, you just assumed incorrectly. It's good to see kids active, so much "free play" time has been stripped away from children in the past 2 decades that they need to do stuff like this on their own to get in the activity. |
| 2014-06-11 5:02 PM in reply to: trishie |
| 17 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions I started running at 11, but not the kind of distance this kid is covering. By the time I was in high school though, I was on the local junior olympic team. I ran with a kid that was amazing, and had several national records for various age groups. He ended up going to a different high school, and I understand that he ended up being forced to quit running because of overuse injuries. From a very early age his parents made him keep a mileage log, and they would check it to make sure he wasn't going overboard. He obviously began lying... Never heard much about him after that, which is a shame because he was a truly talented runner. I think that it isn't terrible to start running around this kid's age, but you have to be very mindful of the risks that come with distance running. Injuries happen to seasoned runners all the time. So, an inexperienced kid and parents who only began running when he did raise some concerns. However, if he is as talented as he seems, he might get involved with coaches and groups that can help keep him avoid the risks as best as possible. |
| 2014-06-11 5:20 PM in reply to: kalindsey |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions I like the coaches comments....I think he is right on the money. Go fast when you are young, go longer, fast, as you grow. I don't know any youth coaches that we have been involved with who advocate 1/2 marathons, much less the training involved, even for kids who are even 14-15 years old. Time will tell. I think it's great, but not something I'd want my kids doing. |
| 2014-06-11 7:14 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions N=1 here, but..... I started running when I was ten, did a marathon at 14, briefly had a HM age record at age 15. I'm still running, still love it. Never had any major overuse injuries. I was also a swimmer and didn't really run year-round until college, so that may have helped keep me healthy. The "hard-wired slow running" thing sounds like nonsense. I've never been a speed demon, but I actually started with the 200m and 400m in youth track. I was awful and hated it. I enjoyed the longer distances and found success there. Yes, I ran a 2:59 marathon at 14, and a 2:44 at 17, but I also ran a 5:06 mile at 16, and won the state 2-mile with a 10:44. Everyone has different paces for different distances, and a different set of natural talents. I didn't overdo the mileage for the longer events, did speedwork a few times a week, and I think it developed a great base for the more focused work for the shorter distances. I also built a strong engine through swimming. This boy seems to love running, and have a concerned and supportive family. If the motivation is really coming from him, more power to him. If this was all about soccer or chess, no one would say anything. One of my students (same age) just returned from an international AG soccer tournament where two teammates broke their legs and several were treated for heat illness. My student was pressured to play despite a 102 degree fever and sinus infection. I'd rather a child of mine do the occasional half-marathon. Probably true that two in two weeks isn't a good idea, for anybody for that matter, and I'd rather a kid of mine stick to slightly shorter stuff until at least HS, but it's still safer than a lot of things kids do. |
| 2014-06-11 7:31 PM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Hot Runner N=1 here, but..... I started running when I was ten, did a marathon at 14, briefly had a HM age record at age 15. I'm still running, still love it. Never had any major overuse injuries. I was also a swimmer and didn't really run year-round until college, so that may have helped keep me healthy. The "hard-wired slow running" thing sounds like nonsense. I've never been a speed demon, but I actually started with the 200m and 400m in youth track. I was awful and hated it. I enjoyed the longer distances and found success there. Yes, I ran a 2:59 marathon at 14, and a 2:44 at 17, but I also ran a 5:06 mile at 16, and won the state 2-mile with a 10:44. Everyone has different paces for different distances, and a different set of natural talents. I didn't overdo the mileage for the longer events, did speedwork a few times a week, and I think it developed a great base for the more focused work for the shorter distances. I also built a strong engine through swimming. This boy seems to love running, and have a concerned and supportive family. If the motivation is really coming from him, more power to him. If this was all about soccer or chess, no one would say anything. One of my students (same age) just returned from an international AG soccer tournament where two teammates broke their legs and several were treated for heat illness. My student was pressured to play despite a 102 degree fever and sinus infection. I'd rather a child of mine do the occasional half-marathon. Probably true that two in two weeks isn't a good idea, for anybody for that matter, and I'd rather a kid of mine stick to slightly shorter stuff until at least HS, but it's still safer than a lot of things kids do. Many of your points are valid....but I've got to tell you, a 5:06 mile and 10:44 2 mile, while good times, wouldn't get you near a state title here....you'd be 6th I the 2 mile, and 138th Nationally, just this year. I know a couple of the top girls here and I know when they started and how they train.....and which ones have fallen to all kinds of overuse problems. Overuse in young runners is a BIG problem. It's a problem in any culture, including Kenya, where you see REALLY fast kids but hear nothing of the trail of broke kids who don't make it. And, the issue of building speed when you are young is NOT nonsense.....it's what allowed the girls I know to run 4:45 miles and 10:19 2 miles. Times certainly change, and the way you and I ran as kids wasn't necessarily the best way....it absolutely broke me. Without a doubt, we will see kids starting younger and parents struggling to know what the right thing is. I don't pretend to have the answers, but I believe I have watched a much better way to build young runners so that they are durable and fast when the time comes that really counts.....it CERTAINLY DOES NOT MATTER at 10 years old. There are some great youth coaches now....their words and ways have value. I'm more comfortable listening to them than I am parents of a 10 year old who started running the same time he did. |
| 2014-06-11 7:43 PM in reply to: 0 |
| 1660 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Left Brain I like the coaches comments....I think he is right on the money. Go fast when you are young, go longer, fast, as you grow. I don't know any youth coaches that we have been involved with who advocate 1/2 marathons, much less the training involved, even for kids who are even 14-15 years old. Time will tell. I think it's great, but not something I'd want my kids doing. http://www.srla.org/ Not competitive running per se, but they get hundreds, if not thousands of kids to successfully complete the LA marathon every year. It's remarkable - I saw the kids in a race in the early days and had my doubts, but they apparently had a 99% race completion rate that year I ran it. Crazy. Edited by yazmaster 2014-06-11 7:43 PM |
| 2014-06-11 8:22 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by yazmaster Originally posted by Left Brain I like the coaches comments....I think he is right on the money. Go fast when you are young, go longer, fast, as you grow. I don't know any youth coaches that we have been involved with who advocate 1/2 marathons, much less the training involved, even for kids who are even 14-15 years old. Time will tell. I think it's great, but not something I'd want my kids doing. http://www.srla.org/ Not competitive running per se, but they get hundreds, if not thousands of kids to successfully complete the LA marathon every year. It's remarkable - I saw the kids in a race in the early days and had my doubts, but they apparently had a 99% race completion rate that year I ran it. Crazy. Well, we agree that it's crazy. |
| 2014-06-11 8:39 PM in reply to: trishie |
| 370 , North Carolina | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Not really much different that any other kid and parents. We are in the age of sport specific kids. More and more a kid shows some talent and some interest in a sport then that's what they are going to focus on. Many times it is the parents behind the kids pushing them and pushing them until they just break. More than anything we just need to encourage kids to be kids. To run because they enjoy it, to swim because they enjoy it, to play basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, golf, etc etc. Not because they are going to get a scholarship or play professionally. |
| 2014-06-11 9:18 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Nick B Not really much different that any other kid and parents. We are in the age of sport specific kids. More and more a kid shows some talent and some interest in a sport then that's what they are going to focus on. Many times it is the parents behind the kids pushing them and pushing them until they just break. More than anything we just need to encourage kids to be kids. To run because they enjoy it, to swim because they enjoy it, to play basketball, baseball, soccer, tennis, golf, etc etc. Not because they are going to get a scholarship or play professionally. My son and I volunteered over the weekend at a kids triathlon. The kids ranged from 7 to 13 years old. I'd venture a guess that nearly 75% of the parents were people who do triathlon, judging from the t-shirts and hats they were wearing. Without a doubt some of the most wigged out parents watching kids sport that I have ever seen, and my kids have been involved in baseball, softball, basketball, swimming, tae kwon do, and even competitive cheerleading, among others. The triathlon parents made the competitive cheerleading parents look sane........I never would have thought that was possible. I watched one really fit looking mom grab her son, probably about 9, by both shoulders after the race and yell, "you can't go anaerobic for 45 minutes!!!" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Ok mom. Edited by Left Brain 2014-06-11 9:21 PM |
| 2014-06-11 9:40 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Left Brain Hell hath no fury like a triathlete parent trying to get from T2 to the finish. Luckily, our kids series seems pretty supportive of all the kids. However, the parent's attire - come on. Don't be that guy wearing the band shirt to the concert. PRO TIP: If you are bringing your kid to a triathlon they are racing (this is an awesome thing to do), lay off the race gear. Let it be about the race they are doing, not the race you did. You'll be uniquely cool. |
| 2014-06-11 9:51 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Left Brain I like the coaches comments....I think he is right on the money. Go fast when you are young, go longer, fast, as you grow. I don't know any youth coaches that we have been involved with who advocate 1/2 marathons, much less the training involved, even for kids who are even 14-15 years old. Time will tell. I think it's great, but not something I'd want my kids doing. Ditto. As for the comparisons swimming is far easier on the body than running. |
| 2014-06-11 9:52 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Why is a 9 year old doing a 45 min race? |
| 2014-06-11 10:03 PM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by simpsonbo Why is a 9 year old doing a 45 min race? Dude....he went anaerobic. LMAO |
| 2014-06-11 10:09 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by Left Brain ..., judging from the t-shirts and hats they were wearing. Without a doubt some of the most wigged out parents watching kids sport that I have ever seen, and my kids have been involved in baseball, softball, basketball, swimming, tae kwon do, and even competitive cheerleading, among others. The triathlon parents made the competitive cheerleading parents look sane....... Hell hath no fury like a triathlete parent trying to get from T2 to the finish. Luckily, our kids series seems pretty supportive of all the kids. However, the parent's attire - come on. Don't be that guy wearing the band shirt to the concert. PRO TIP: If you are bringing your kid to a triathlon they are racing (this is an awesome thing to do), lay off the race gear. Let it be about the race they are doing, not the race you did. You'll be uniquely cool. I know I saw a half dozen parents with their IM shirts on, and dozens with other race gear. hats, shirts, etc.....it was quite the scene. Without a doubt the largest concentration of triathlon DB's I've seen in a while. We were asked if we would help out because a group of kids that Jr mentors were in the race.....not next year I can tell you that. We both left shaking our heads. I was manning an intersection and another woman screamed at me to get the fire truck to move because it was blocking their pictures of the kids.....I said, in a soothing voice, "lady, they're firemen, they hate children". Edited by Left Brain 2014-06-11 10:12 PM |
| 2014-06-11 10:09 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Left Brain This is the important point if you are talking about long-term development. If a 10yo wants to run a HM, then whatever. Mine isn't, but that's the parents call. However, if you are talking about the development of a really good athlete, then 10yo records mean nothing (relatively). The day I got sold on my kids swim club was when they explained, "We have no interest in developing a national level 10-14yo swimmer." They went on to explain their goal was a lifelong love of fitness and (hopefully swimming) activity. That being said, if the ability/dedication is there, they want their kids to peak at 15-18yo when it can get them somewhere. You never know if the best 10&U athlete is going to be the best 15-18yo athlete. |
| 2014-06-11 10:12 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Left Brain We were asked if we would help out because a group of kids that Jr mentors were in the race.....not next year I can tell you that. We both left shaking our heads. Nah, y'all should do it again. The kids don't know their parents are DB's ... yet. |
| 2014-06-11 10:17 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by Left Brain ... but I believe I have watched a much better way to build young runners so that they are durable and fast when the time comes that really counts.....it CERTAINLY DOES NOT MATTER at 10 years old. This is the important point if you are talking about long-term development. If a 10yo wants to run a HM, then whatever. Mine isn't, but that's the parents call. However, if you are talking about the development of a really good athlete, then 10yo records mean nothing (relatively). The day I got sold on my kids swim club was when they explained, "We have no interest in developing a national level 10-14yo swimmer." They went on to explain their goal was a lifelong love of fitness and (hopefully swimming) activity. That being said, if the ability/dedication is there, they want their kids to peak at 15-18yo when it can get them somewhere. You never know if the best 10&U athlete is going to be the best 15-18yo athlete. That's exactly my point. |
| 2014-06-11 10:36 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions seeing this article reminds me of this family I met at an 8 hour race. The youngest son was 11 and ran 27.82 miles in 8 hours. Funny they were amazing by the 300 lbs guy doing 30.11 miles and I was amazed by the kid running 27.82. Weird this is kid had run fast or walk no idea about pacing. Also remind in jr high basketball the kids who played on the team were on the ones who played in high school. |
| 2014-06-11 11:07 PM in reply to: #5010933 |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions I saw a lot of the best kids at 10 to 12 weren't the best at 17 to 18 and done before 20. |
| 2014-06-12 2:58 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: 10-year-old boy's distance running feats raise questions I think you're making a lot of assumptions about how we trained! I don't recall ever running over 40 miles per week when training for the longer stuff (which I did as a protest because our state did not offer 2 mile for girls until my junior year-- if it had been offered, I would have focused my training on 1-2 mile races) and, during track season, probably not over 30 mpw. I don't have a clue how the HS kids train now. Back in the day, for me it was a "long run" of 8-10 miles (during track season, 12-15 for the HM), a rest day or two, two days of intervals or hill repeats, at least one of them on the grass, the rest easy runs of 4-6 miles. Our coach was good but not terribly creative--to this day I remember (and sometimes do) those speed workouts: 6-8 X 800, or 3 sets of 800-400-400. Not really what I'd consider cruel and unusual punishment! BTW I was almost two years young for my grade--finished HS at 16 for reasons unrelated to running. My 2-mile time at 17-18 was close to what you mentioned. I guess my beliefs are just different. In my mind, sports are something to enjoy and a personal challenge. I don't regret doing what I could when I did. My goal wasn't to become a professional or elite athlete--I knew even then I didn't have the talent for that-- just to do my best at what I enjoyed. Maybe I could have been a bit faster if I'd spent several years focusing on the 800 or something when I was young, but I most likely would have quit the sport in that case. My running brought, and continues to bring me, great joy and a wealth of valuable experiences. I hope that is the case for this boy and he isn't pushed beyond what he wants to do or his body can handle. It can be hard to sort out who's the motivation behind such things when an entire family is into it and the child is young. I know in my case my dad followed me into running as a personal challenge for himself. If anyone was pushing anyone, it was child pushing parent, not vice versa! On the start line of my first marathon, a runner tried to berate my dad for "making" me do the race and I had to explain that it was the other way around..... Remembering that experience, I just wouldn't want to go there without really understanding the individual situation! I did know young runners who were pushed too hard, too soon, and burned out, and am grateful to my family and coaches that they didn't do that to me. |
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