Other Resources The Political Joe » A thread that we can't let die...or can we? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
Show Per page
 
 
of 2
 
 
2014-10-11 4:28 PM

User image

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
I decided to click on an article linked from the Heritage Foundation:

http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/08/29-year-old-woman-chosen-die-that...

Any thoughts out there on euthanasia?
I am just blown away by the opposition to letting this young woman end her life on her own terms.
For Pete's sake, humans typically don't let lower animals suffer...but for fellow humans, we're not so nice. Very sad.






2014-10-11 4:30 PM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

User image

Pro
15646
50005000500050010025
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy I decided to click on an article linked from the Heritage Foundation: http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/08/29-year-old-woman-chosen-die-that... Any thoughts out there on euthanasia? I am just blown away by the opposition to letting this young woman end her life on her own terms. For Pete's sake, humans typically don't let lower animals suffer...but for fellow humans, we're not so nice. Very sad.

Preach it!

2014-10-13 11:00 AM
in reply to: Left Brain


80
252525
naperville, Illinois
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy I decided to click on an article linked from the Heritage Foundation: http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/08/29-year-old-woman-chosen-die-that... Any thoughts out there on euthanasia? I am just blown away by the opposition to letting this young woman end her life on her own terms. For Pete's sake, humans typically don't let lower animals suffer...but for fellow humans, we're not so nice. Very sad.

Preach it!




I wonder how many people who are so against this are proponents of the death penalty.
2014-10-13 11:26 AM
in reply to: Raansnel

User image

Pro
5761
50005001001002525
Bartlett, TN
Gold member
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

Tough call. I am torn on this actually.

I watched the video of her and it sounds like she has thought it through and is at peace with her decision. I wonder what her thoughts are on after she passes? I think that would be interesting to hear her thoughts.

 

It is tough because I still see it as suicide with a different name. I am just glad that this is not something my family is going through, it has to be tough knowing the date is upcoming.

2014-10-13 9:26 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
My wife and I were talking about this the other day.
We were both of the opinion that for us, setting a date would be really tough...suppose ya wake up that morning feelin' pretty good! Yeah, the future's gonna suck, but wouldn't ya want to soak up as much of the good ya can before it's time to die? Everyone's got a different line. My belief is that we as human beings have a right to own our own destiny (being of sound mind of course). We all deserve the right to own our own fate.












Edited by ChineseDemocracy 2014-10-13 9:53 PM
2014-10-14 10:10 AM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

User image

Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy I decided to click on an article linked from the Heritage Foundation: http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/08/29-year-old-woman-chosen-die-that... Any thoughts out there on euthanasia? I am just blown away by the opposition to letting this young woman end her life on her own terms. For Pete's sake, humans typically don't let lower animals suffer...but for fellow humans, we're not so nice. Very sad.

Having seen both my parent die from cancer and the suffering they went through, especially towards the end I have no problem with this. 



2014-10-14 10:19 AM
in reply to: crusevegas

New user
560
5002525
Key West
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
I agree that setting "a date" would be tough. That said, if someone has a terminal disease with no chance of recovery and a painful death guaranteed, then I see no problem with this choice. It is at the point when society encourages/expects euthanasia for the terminal or the elderly versus supporting someone's individual decision, that I will start having issues. My son had a terminal progressive disease that he lived with for 27 years. The last few years were the most difficult but he never contemplated ending his life and fought to the end. Would I have understood if he did, I hope so.

My heart breaks for her, her new husband, and her parents and family.
2014-10-14 11:51 AM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

User image

Champion
14571
50005000200020005002525
the alamo city, Texas
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy I decided to click on an article linked from the Heritage Foundation: http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/08/29-year-old-woman-chosen-die-that... Any thoughts out there on euthanasia? I am just blown away by the opposition to letting this young woman end her life on her own terms. For Pete's sake, humans typically don't let lower animals suffer...but for fellow humans, we're not so nice. Very sad.

i don't understand the opposition to her making this choice either.  how does this affect these tons of strangers judging her?  her husband and loved ones understand and support this, even if they don't love it.

i did not realize that this was legal in some states though, she is fortunate to have that option (given her circumstances and beliefs)  i would probably do a similar thing.  i would travel to another state to do so safely if it is not legal where i live.  

2014-10-14 1:35 PM
in reply to: mehaner

User image

Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

Originally posted by mehaner

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy I decided to click on an article linked from the Heritage Foundation: http://dailysignal.com/2014/10/08/29-year-old-woman-chosen-die-that... Any thoughts out there on euthanasia? I am just blown away by the opposition to letting this young woman end her life on her own terms. For Pete's sake, humans typically don't let lower animals suffer...but for fellow humans, we're not so nice. Very sad.

i don't understand the opposition to her making this choice either.  how does this affect these tons of strangers judging her?  her husband and loved ones understand and support this, even if they don't love it.

i did not realize that this was legal in some states though, she is fortunate to have that option (given her circumstances and beliefs)  i would probably do a similar thing.  i would travel to another state to do so safely if it is not legal where i live.  

People feeling the need to impose their religious beliefs on others is my guess.

2014-10-14 3:18 PM
in reply to: crusevegas

User image

Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

I may or may not share my opinion in the matter, but I also think there is a bit more justo muddy up the waters a bit...  More than "should she be allowed - yes or no".

Let me throw this in the mix that I haven't seen mentioned... 

What about insurance and benefits?  Do they get paid death benefits or do they sacrifice them to do this?

Who judges what circumstances are present allowing this or not?  Purely up to the patient/family?  What if someone is depressed anyway but want to say their "insert disease/injury here" is the reason why they want to do it?  "I don't want to live with Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or ALS?

Sometimes is easier to say "you just can't do it at all" rather than open up the 1000's of other instances where it's not so clear cut.  But just like anything, cross that bridge when you get to it I suppose.

2014-10-14 4:46 PM
in reply to: Kido

User image

Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

Originally posted by Kido

I may or may not share my opinion in the matter, but I also think there is a bit more justo muddy up the waters a bit...  More than "should she be allowed - yes or no".

Let me throw this in the mix that I haven't seen mentioned... 

What about insurance and benefits?  Do they get paid death benefits or do they sacrifice them to do this?

Who judges what circumstances are present allowing this or not?  Purely up to the patient/family?  What if someone is depressed anyway but want to say their "insert disease/injury here" is the reason why they want to do it?  "I don't want to live with Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or ALS?

Sometimes is easier to say "you just can't do it at all" rather than open up the 1000's of other instances where it's not so clear cut.  But just like anything, cross that bridge when you get to it I suppose.

Hey Kido, good to hear from you.

On the insurance and benefits, as far as I can recall the only type of benefits that could be restricted by suicide would be some types of life insurance, generally major companies selling individual life insurance policies has a suicide exclusion clause which expires two years after the policy inception. 

I'm not positive on the following but I think a lot of the "death benefits" you get with credit card and other similar types of gimmicky policies very well could include a suicide exclusion provision. Those same policies also include a lot of other exclusions not found in your more main stream individual policies such as alcohol related death exclusions, dangerous activities death exclusion. 

I don't know what other types of plans differentiate natural/accidental death from suicide? Pensions, SS, Annuities?

This is just my 2 cents on the who decides, the individual alone.

I can't imagine it being that simple, surely the government does/will have to have their hands involved in it. 

 



2014-10-14 9:56 PM
in reply to: crusevegas

User image

Elite
4547
2000200050025
Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
Originally posted by crusevegas

Originally posted by Kido

I may or may not share my opinion in the matter, but I also think there is a bit more justo muddy up the waters a bit...  More than "should she be allowed - yes or no".

Let me throw this in the mix that I haven't seen mentioned... 

What about insurance and benefits?  Do they get paid death benefits or do they sacrifice them to do this?

Who judges what circumstances are present allowing this or not?  Purely up to the patient/family?  What if someone is depressed anyway but want to say their "insert disease/injury here" is the reason why they want to do it?  "I don't want to live with Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or ALS?

Sometimes is easier to say "you just can't do it at all" rather than open up the 1000's of other instances where it's not so clear cut.  But just like anything, cross that bridge when you get to it I suppose.

Hey Kido, good to hear from you.

On the insurance and benefits, as far as I can recall the only type of benefits that could be restricted by suicide would be some types of life insurance, generally major companies selling individual life insurance policies has a suicide exclusion clause which expires two years after the policy inception. 

I'm not positive on the following but I think a lot of the "death benefits" you get with credit card and other similar types of gimmicky policies very well could include a suicide exclusion provision. Those same policies also include a lot of other exclusions not found in your more main stream individual policies such as alcohol related death exclusions, dangerous activities death exclusion. 

I don't know what other types of plans differentiate natural/accidental death from suicide? Pensions, SS, Annuities?

This is just my 2 cents on the who decides, the individual alone.

I can't imagine it being that simple, surely the government does/will have to have their hands involved in it. 

 





If ya think about it, the insurance companies would be pretty dang stupid to not re-negotiate terms.
Think about it.
Think about how much money a terminal illness can eat up. It could easily get into the millions.
A shrewd (and let's be honest, a quite ballzy) individual, realizing they are terminal could negotiate with the insurance company. In the long run, both sides could win.
The insurance company could dodge the insane end of life costs and the terminal patient could not only leave behind something for loved ones, but also dodge the torturous and oftentimes dehumanizing decline.

Interesting stuff that not a lot of folks are comfortable talking about.
  • ..and yes Kido, so many questions in addition to the "is it right or is it wrong" debate.


  • 2014-10-15 8:41 AM
    in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

    User image

    Pro
    15646
    50005000500050010025
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

    Quite a few people choose to end their own lives when diagnosed with a terminal illness.....I  guess "common" would be too strong of a word, but it certainly is not uncommon.   Almost none of them get a chance to say goodbye and die in peace.  They have to take secretive actions because of the stigma, and if they tell someone they face the very real chance that they will be committed for an evaluation and add humiliation to their suffering.  As a result, they die alone, and usually violently (gunshot, hanging, jumping, etc).  It's no way for a life to end just because someone doesn't want to suffer.  People with terminal illnesses should be allowed to die with whatever dignity they choose.

    2014-10-15 9:01 AM
    in reply to: Left Brain

    User image


    1159
    10001002525
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
    Terry Prachett, the sci-fi/fantasy author, has said that he wishes to die by assisted suicide before his disease reaches the critical point - he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in 2007. I believe he was looking at the Neatherlands where it is allowed under strict supervision

    these were the guidelines that the Rotterdam court released in the early 1980's:
    1.The patient must be experiencing unbearable pain.
    2.The patient must be conscious.
    3.The death request must be voluntary.
    4.The patient must have been given alternatives to euthanasia and time to consider these alternatives.
    5.There must be no other reasonable solutions to the problem.
    6.The patient’s death cannot inflict unnecessary suffering on others.
    7.There must be more than one person involved in the euthanasia decision.
    8.Only a doctor can euthanize a patient.
    9.Great care must be taken in actually making the death decision.

    I remember watching a documentary on i when I was in my teens - someone who had ALS (I believe) and made the decision to die this way.
    2014-10-15 12:01 PM
    in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

    User image

    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
    Originally posted by crusevegas

    Originally posted by Kido

    I may or may not share my opinion in the matter, but I also think there is a bit more justo muddy up the waters a bit...  More than "should she be allowed - yes or no".

    Let me throw this in the mix that I haven't seen mentioned... 

    What about insurance and benefits?  Do they get paid death benefits or do they sacrifice them to do this?

    Who judges what circumstances are present allowing this or not?  Purely up to the patient/family?  What if someone is depressed anyway but want to say their "insert disease/injury here" is the reason why they want to do it?  "I don't want to live with Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or ALS?

    Sometimes is easier to say "you just can't do it at all" rather than open up the 1000's of other instances where it's not so clear cut.  But just like anything, cross that bridge when you get to it I suppose.

    Hey Kido, good to hear from you.

    On the insurance and benefits, as far as I can recall the only type of benefits that could be restricted by suicide would be some types of life insurance, generally major companies selling individual life insurance policies has a suicide exclusion clause which expires two years after the policy inception. 

    I'm not positive on the following but I think a lot of the "death benefits" you get with credit card and other similar types of gimmicky policies very well could include a suicide exclusion provision. Those same policies also include a lot of other exclusions not found in your more main stream individual policies such as alcohol related death exclusions, dangerous activities death exclusion. 

    I don't know what other types of plans differentiate natural/accidental death from suicide? Pensions, SS, Annuities?

    This is just my 2 cents on the who decides, the individual alone.

    I can't imagine it being that simple, surely the government does/will have to have their hands involved in it. 

     

    If ya think about it, the insurance companies would be pretty dang stupid to not re-negotiate terms. Think about it. Think about how much money a terminal illness can eat up. It could easily get into the millions. A shrewd (and let's be honest, a quite ballzy) individual, realizing they are terminal could negotiate with the insurance company. In the long run, both sides could win. The insurance company could dodge the insane end of life costs and the terminal patient could not only leave behind something for loved ones, but also dodge the torturous and oftentimes dehumanizing decline. Interesting stuff that not a lot of folks are comfortable talking about. ...and yes Kido, so many questions in addition to the "is it right or is it wrong" debate.

    I think there are some laws or insurance regulations, something like "Moral Hazards" that would prevent the insurance company from engaging in a contract to "compensate" someone for deliberately ending their own life. I'm going on memory so I could be off on the terminology. 

    The above doesn't mean I personally disagree with where you are coming from though.

    2014-10-15 3:44 PM
    in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

    User image

    Sensei
    Sin City
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracyIf ya think about it, the insurance companies would be pretty dang stupid to not re-negotiate terms. Think about it. Think about how much money a terminal illness can eat up. It could easily get into the millions. A shrewd (and let's be honest, a quite ballzy) individual, realizing they are terminal could negotiate with the insurance company. In the long run, both sides could win. The insurance company could dodge the insane end of life costs and the terminal patient could not only leave behind something for loved ones, but also dodge the torturous and oftentimes dehumanizing decline. Interesting stuff that not a lot of folks are comfortable talking about. ...and yes Kido, so many questions in addition to the "is it right or is it wrong" debate.

    But this is the same insurance companies that also DON'T pay for preventative medicine nearly as much as covering the "fixing" the problem.

    As an example, dental insurance won't cover getting dental implant and say it's "cosmetic".  Even though it's proven to be a more effective and lifelong solution compared to bridges or not having a new tooth at all which both have the potential for bigger issues down the road.  How can they say that replacing a missing tooth is simply a cosmetic thing?  Maybe they say that there are cheaper solutions like dentures?

    I think it's like that for a lot of things for them.  Treat the symptoms, not the cause.

    I may be cynical but maybe they are not LOOKING to reduce long term costs if they have a reason they can justify to jack everyone else's rates up to cover it...

    I have a feeling they don't mind shoveling money at a long term or continuous fixes as long as they can charge for them OR finding loopholes to deny coverage part of the time.  A bunch of healthy people that take care of themselves with preventative care may not be as lucrative than a bunch of sick people they can point to as a reason to increase rates across the board...

     



    2014-10-16 9:37 AM
    in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

    User image

    Champion
    14571
    50005000200020005002525
    the alamo city, Texas
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
    Originally posted by crusevegas

    Originally posted by Kido

    I may or may not share my opinion in the matter, but I also think there is a bit more justo muddy up the waters a bit...  More than "should she be allowed - yes or no".

    Let me throw this in the mix that I haven't seen mentioned... 

    What about insurance and benefits?  Do they get paid death benefits or do they sacrifice them to do this?

    Who judges what circumstances are present allowing this or not?  Purely up to the patient/family?  What if someone is depressed anyway but want to say their "insert disease/injury here" is the reason why they want to do it?  "I don't want to live with Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or ALS?

    Sometimes is easier to say "you just can't do it at all" rather than open up the 1000's of other instances where it's not so clear cut.  But just like anything, cross that bridge when you get to it I suppose.

    Hey Kido, good to hear from you.

    On the insurance and benefits, as far as I can recall the only type of benefits that could be restricted by suicide would be some types of life insurance, generally major companies selling individual life insurance policies has a suicide exclusion clause which expires two years after the policy inception. 

    I'm not positive on the following but I think a lot of the "death benefits" you get with credit card and other similar types of gimmicky policies very well could include a suicide exclusion provision. Those same policies also include a lot of other exclusions not found in your more main stream individual policies such as alcohol related death exclusions, dangerous activities death exclusion. 

    I don't know what other types of plans differentiate natural/accidental death from suicide? Pensions, SS, Annuities?

    This is just my 2 cents on the who decides, the individual alone.

    I can't imagine it being that simple, surely the government does/will have to have their hands involved in it. 

     

    If ya think about it, the insurance companies would be pretty dang stupid to not re-negotiate terms. Think about it. Think about how much money a terminal illness can eat up. It could easily get into the millions. A shrewd (and let's be honest, a quite ballzy) individual, realizing they are terminal could negotiate with the insurance company. In the long run, both sides could win. The insurance company could dodge the insane end of life costs and the terminal patient could not only leave behind something for loved ones, but also dodge the torturous and oftentimes dehumanizing decline. Interesting stuff that not a lot of folks are comfortable talking about. ...and yes Kido, so many questions in addition to the "is it right or is it wrong" debate.

    except for your MEDICAL insurance covers these long term treatments and your LIFE insurance pays out when you kick the bucket.  so...that doesn't really work.  sure, the medical insurance people are all for covering a pill or injection instead of months of hospitalization, but your life insurance doesn't benefit from that at all.

    2014-10-16 4:16 PM
    in reply to: mehaner

    User image

    Elite
    4547
    2000200050025
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
    Originally posted by mehaner

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
    Originally posted by crusevegas

    Originally posted by Kido

    I may or may not share my opinion in the matter, but I also think there is a bit more justo muddy up the waters a bit...  More than "should she be allowed - yes or no".

    Let me throw this in the mix that I haven't seen mentioned... 

    What about insurance and benefits?  Do they get paid death benefits or do they sacrifice them to do this?

    Who judges what circumstances are present allowing this or not?  Purely up to the patient/family?  What if someone is depressed anyway but want to say their "insert disease/injury here" is the reason why they want to do it?  "I don't want to live with Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or ALS?

    Sometimes is easier to say "you just can't do it at all" rather than open up the 1000's of other instances where it's not so clear cut.  But just like anything, cross that bridge when you get to it I suppose.

    Hey Kido, good to hear from you.

    On the insurance and benefits, as far as I can recall the only type of benefits that could be restricted by suicide would be some types of life insurance, generally major companies selling individual life insurance policies has a suicide exclusion clause which expires two years after the policy inception. 

    I'm not positive on the following but I think a lot of the "death benefits" you get with credit card and other similar types of gimmicky policies very well could include a suicide exclusion provision. Those same policies also include a lot of other exclusions not found in your more main stream individual policies such as alcohol related death exclusions, dangerous activities death exclusion. 

    I don't know what other types of plans differentiate natural/accidental death from suicide? Pensions, SS, Annuities?

    This is just my 2 cents on the who decides, the individual alone.

    I can't imagine it being that simple, surely the government does/will have to have their hands involved in it. 

     

    If ya think about it, the insurance companies would be pretty dang stupid to not re-negotiate terms. Think about it. Think about how much money a terminal illness can eat up. It could easily get into the millions. A shrewd (and let's be honest, a quite ballzy) individual, realizing they are terminal could negotiate with the insurance company. In the long run, both sides could win. The insurance company could dodge the insane end of life costs and the terminal patient could not only leave behind something for loved ones, but also dodge the torturous and oftentimes dehumanizing decline. Interesting stuff that not a lot of folks are comfortable talking about. ...and yes Kido, so many questions in addition to the "is it right or is it wrong" debate.

    except for your MEDICAL insurance covers these long term treatments and your LIFE insurance pays out when you kick the bucket.  so...that doesn't really work.  sure, the medical insurance people are all for covering a pill or injection instead of months of hospitalization, but your life insurance doesn't benefit from that at all.





    Good point mehaner.
    Sounds like a perfect opportunity for the insurance companies to make like cable companies and BUNDLE services!
    With a medical and life insurance bundle, folks could avoid that lovely (and expensive) period of pain and agony before death and still provide a little financial help for family in the process.


    2014-10-18 10:37 AM
    in reply to: 0

    User image

    Pro
    9391
    500020002000100100100252525
    Omaha, NE
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

    I have mixed feelings on euthanasia.  On one hand it's easy to simply say that all life is precious and we must extend it at all costs, but there's no question it's a lot more complex than that.

    I think many of us have participated in a form of euthanasia, but just in more subtle ways.  My wife's grandma had terminal cancer and she refused to go through treatment because she was just "done".  Everyone in the family was very supportive of her and even bought her bottles of booze to help with the pain.  It was kind of funny at times because we were all contributing to her habit that everyone spent a lifetime trying to get her to quit.  When she died after a month or two it was really easy on the family and there was really no sadness like there usually is.  Everyone enjoyed how she got to choose how to go out and she went out with style.Sure, she didn't take a pill or something to end it and there was some suffering, but she did choose to go versus fighting to prolong the inevitable.

    I think with terminal ill cases where people have less than 6 months to live (or however long) it makes a lot of sense and is truly humane.  However, there are various cases I've heard of around the world that are a little more difficult for me.  I recall a case in Europe where somebody was going blind and didn't want to deal with it so they ended their life.  Sure, it's a terrible thing to go through, but I just don't feel the same about a case like that.

    Culturally I think America is still a long ways away from any form of euthanasia and sadly the politicians will be pushed by big money from the healthcare industry to keep it out of the laws for even longer.

    btw, I'm a huge pro-life guy across the board and that includes the death penalty.  I never understood the people who are pro-life and pro death penalty.  That just doesn't make sense. 



    Edited by tuwood 2014-10-18 10:42 AM
    2014-10-18 10:39 AM
    in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

    User image

    Pro
    9391
    500020002000100100100252525
    Omaha, NE
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
    Originally posted by mehaner

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
    Originally posted by crusevegas

    Originally posted by Kido

    I may or may not share my opinion in the matter, but I also think there is a bit more justo muddy up the waters a bit...  More than "should she be allowed - yes or no".

    Let me throw this in the mix that I haven't seen mentioned... 

    What about insurance and benefits?  Do they get paid death benefits or do they sacrifice them to do this?

    Who judges what circumstances are present allowing this or not?  Purely up to the patient/family?  What if someone is depressed anyway but want to say their "insert disease/injury here" is the reason why they want to do it?  "I don't want to live with Alzheimer's, or Parkinson's, or ALS?

    Sometimes is easier to say "you just can't do it at all" rather than open up the 1000's of other instances where it's not so clear cut.  But just like anything, cross that bridge when you get to it I suppose.

    Hey Kido, good to hear from you.

    On the insurance and benefits, as far as I can recall the only type of benefits that could be restricted by suicide would be some types of life insurance, generally major companies selling individual life insurance policies has a suicide exclusion clause which expires two years after the policy inception. 

    I'm not positive on the following but I think a lot of the "death benefits" you get with credit card and other similar types of gimmicky policies very well could include a suicide exclusion provision. Those same policies also include a lot of other exclusions not found in your more main stream individual policies such as alcohol related death exclusions, dangerous activities death exclusion. 

    I don't know what other types of plans differentiate natural/accidental death from suicide? Pensions, SS, Annuities?

    This is just my 2 cents on the who decides, the individual alone.

    I can't imagine it being that simple, surely the government does/will have to have their hands involved in it. 

     

    If ya think about it, the insurance companies would be pretty dang stupid to not re-negotiate terms. Think about it. Think about how much money a terminal illness can eat up. It could easily get into the millions. A shrewd (and let's be honest, a quite ballzy) individual, realizing they are terminal could negotiate with the insurance company. In the long run, both sides could win. The insurance company could dodge the insane end of life costs and the terminal patient could not only leave behind something for loved ones, but also dodge the torturous and oftentimes dehumanizing decline. Interesting stuff that not a lot of folks are comfortable talking about. ...and yes Kido, so many questions in addition to the "is it right or is it wrong" debate.

    except for your MEDICAL insurance covers these long term treatments and your LIFE insurance pays out when you kick the bucket.  so...that doesn't really work.  sure, the medical insurance people are all for covering a pill or injection instead of months of hospitalization, but your life insurance doesn't benefit from that at all.

    Good point mehaner. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for the insurance companies to make like cable companies and BUNDLE services! With a medical and life insurance bundle, folks could avoid that lovely (and expensive) period of pain and agony before death and still provide a little financial help for family in the process.

    It would be a great way to cut costs down, but unfortunately various lobby's have convinced our government to pass laws to make this option very unlikely. 

    2014-10-18 8:18 PM
    in reply to: tuwood

    User image

    Elite
    4547
    2000200050025
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
    Originally posted by tuwood

    I have mixed feelings on euthanasia.  On one hand it's easy to simply say that all life is precious and we must extend it at all costs, but there's no question it's a lot more complex than that.

    I think many of us have participated in a form of euthanasia, but just in more subtle ways.  My wife's grandma had terminal cancer and she refused to go through treatment because she was just "done".  Everyone in the family was very supportive of her and even bought her bottles of booze to help with the pain.  It was kind of funny at times because we were all contributing to her habit that everyone spent a lifetime trying to get her to quit.  When she died after a month or two it was really easy on the family and there was really no sadness like there usually is.  Everyone enjoyed how she got to choose how to go out and she went out with style.Sure, she didn't take a pill or something to end it and there was some suffering, but she did choose to go versus fighting to prolong the inevitable.

    I think with terminal ill cases where people have less than 6 months to live (or however long) it makes a lot of sense and is truly humane.  However, there are various cases I've heard of around the world that are a little more difficult for me.  I recall a case in Europe where somebody was going blind and didn't want to deal with it so they ended their life.  Sure, it's a terrible thing to go through, but I just don't feel the same about a case like that.

    Culturally I think America is still a long ways away from any form of euthanasia and sadly the politicians will be pushed by big money from the healthcare industry to keep it out of the laws for even longer.

    btw, I'm a huge pro-life guy across the board and that includes the death penalty.  I never understood the people who are pro-life and pro death penalty.  That just doesn't make sense. 




    Tony, mucho kudos on your last 3 sentences there, the rest is good too, but I didn't know you were anti-death penalty. Most anti-abortion folks I meet are pro-death penalty. That's why I love reading everybody's posts. There are so many facets to individuals out there.

    btw yes, agreed on that patient in Europe deciding on euthanasia when confronted with certain blindness. It sounds absolutely ridiculous to me...but then again, hopefully in whatever system we can agree on when it comes to laws, we could work some sort of required time so that it's not misguided and/or a spur of the moment thing.



    2014-10-18 9:03 PM
    in reply to: tuwood


    80
    252525
    naperville, Illinois
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
    Originally posted by tuwood

    I think many of us have participated in a form of euthanasia, but just in more subtle ways.  My wife's grandma had terminal cancer and she refused to go through treatment because she was just "done".  Everyone in the family was very supportive of her and even bought her bottles of booze to help with the pain. 




    uh no, most people have not subtly done this
    2014-10-18 9:11 PM
    in reply to: Raansnel

    User image

    Elite
    4547
    2000200050025
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
    Originally posted by Raansnel

    Originally posted by tuwood

    I think many of us have participated in a form of euthanasia, but just in more subtle ways.  My wife's grandma had terminal cancer and she refused to go through treatment because she was just "done".  Everyone in the family was very supportive of her and even bought her bottles of booze to help with the pain. 




    uh no, most people have not subtly done this


    I sure hope they have. When your time to go is drawing near, you may as well enjoy it as best ya can.
    2014-10-18 9:49 PM
    in reply to: 0

    User image

    Pro
    15646
    50005000500050010025
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
    Originally posted by tuwood

    I have mixed feelings on euthanasia.  On one hand it's easy to simply say that all life is precious and we must extend it at all costs, but there's no question it's a lot more complex than that.

    I think many of us have participated in a form of euthanasia, but just in more subtle ways.  My wife's grandma had terminal cancer and she refused to go through treatment because she was just "done".  Everyone in the family was very supportive of her and even bought her bottles of booze to help with the pain.  It was kind of funny at times because we were all contributing to her habit that everyone spent a lifetime trying to get her to quit.  When she died after a month or two it was really easy on the family and there was really no sadness like there usually is.  Everyone enjoyed how she got to choose how to go out and she went out with style.Sure, she didn't take a pill or something to end it and there was some suffering, but she did choose to go versus fighting to prolong the inevitable.

    I think with terminal ill cases where people have less than 6 months to live (or however long) it makes a lot of sense and is truly humane.  However, there are various cases I've heard of around the world that are a little more difficult for me.  I recall a case in Europe where somebody was going blind and didn't want to deal with it so they ended their life.  Sure, it's a terrible thing to go through, but I just don't feel the same about a case like that.

    Culturally I think America is still a long ways away from any form of euthanasia and sadly the politicians will be pushed by big money from the healthcare industry to keep it out of the laws for even longer.

    btw, I'm a huge pro-life guy across the board and that includes the death penalty.  I never understood the people who are pro-life and pro death penalty.  That just doesn't make sense. 

    Tony, mucho kudos on your last 3 sentences there, the rest is good too, but I didn't know you were anti-death penalty. Most anti-abortion folks I meet are pro-death penalty. That's why I love reading everybody's posts. There are so many facets to individuals out there. btw yes, agreed on that patient in Europe deciding on euthanasia when confronted with certain blindness. It sounds absolutely ridiculous to me...but then again, hopefully in whatever system we can agree on when it comes to laws, we could work some sort of required time so that it's not misguided and/or a spur of the moment thing.

    So...on the other end, would most pro-abortion people also be pro-assisted suicide?  I'm asking because I never thought about it before.  It just seems to me that the two would go hand in hand with not telling someone what they can do with their body. Is that right?

    I know for me, I'm firmly in the "your body, your consequences" camp.



    Edited by Left Brain 2014-10-18 9:51 PM
    2014-10-19 7:36 AM
    in reply to: Left Brain

    User image

    Elite
    4547
    2000200050025
    Subject: RE: A thread that we can't let die...or can we?
    Originally posted by Left Brain

    Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
    Originally posted by tuwood

    I have mixed feelings on euthanasia.  On one hand it's easy to simply say that all life is precious and we must extend it at all costs, but there's no question it's a lot more complex than that.

    I think many of us have participated in a form of euthanasia, but just in more subtle ways.  My wife's grandma had terminal cancer and she refused to go through treatment because she was just "done".  Everyone in the family was very supportive of her and even bought her bottles of booze to help with the pain.  It was kind of funny at times because we were all contributing to her habit that everyone spent a lifetime trying to get her to quit.  When she died after a month or two it was really easy on the family and there was really no sadness like there usually is.  Everyone enjoyed how she got to choose how to go out and she went out with style.Sure, she didn't take a pill or something to end it and there was some suffering, but she did choose to go versus fighting to prolong the inevitable.

    I think with terminal ill cases where people have less than 6 months to live (or however long) it makes a lot of sense and is truly humane.  However, there are various cases I've heard of around the world that are a little more difficult for me.  I recall a case in Europe where somebody was going blind and didn't want to deal with it so they ended their life.  Sure, it's a terrible thing to go through, but I just don't feel the same about a case like that.

    Culturally I think America is still a long ways away from any form of euthanasia and sadly the politicians will be pushed by big money from the healthcare industry to keep it out of the laws for even longer.

    btw, I'm a huge pro-life guy across the board and that includes the death penalty.  I never understood the people who are pro-life and pro death penalty.  That just doesn't make sense. 

    Tony, mucho kudos on your last 3 sentences there, the rest is good too, but I didn't know you were anti-death penalty. Most anti-abortion folks I meet are pro-death penalty. That's why I love reading everybody's posts. There are so many facets to individuals out there. btw yes, agreed on that patient in Europe deciding on euthanasia when confronted with certain blindness. It sounds absolutely ridiculous to me...but then again, hopefully in whatever system we can agree on when it comes to laws, we could work some sort of required time so that it's not misguided and/or a spur of the moment thing.

    So...on the other end, would most pro-abortion people also be pro-assisted suicide?  I'm asking because I never thought about it before.  It just seems to me that the two would go hand in hand with not telling someone what they can do with their body. Is that right?

    I know for me, I'm firmly in the "your body, your consequences" camp.




    Tough one, that's why I specified "most folks I've met..." as I don't know what the national polling averages are on the topics.
    It's actually kind of funny how religion and big politics (on both sides of the aisle) pick and choose sides of issues that seemingly run in complete opposition to one another. There's so much self-contradiction.
    On the Right, it's pro-life but pro-death penalty...on the Left it's pro-choice and get the government out of your doctor's office period, but then they typically support a lot of the intrusive nanny state laws. The list could go on and on.
    Libertarians are definitely more consistent on issues...but the only prob with Libertarians is with maintaining social order. In small groups, in more agrarian lands I think libertarianism could thrive...but in a nation of 320 million, with large urban areas, libertarianism would likely culminate in quite the violent result and would probably necessitate the polar opposite of libertarianism as martial law could make way for something much darker.

    Sorry I got off-topic there a bit.

    So, would more pro-choice folks be more pro-euthanasia? Yes, I'm gonna say they would. Most opposition I've seen to euthanasia comes from religious opposition as they see it as suicide. Pro-choice folks tend to be less religious so (in my opinion) they're more likely to support euthanasia. Is the person suffering needlessly? Is there ANY chance this person can enjoy their life? Even a portion of their life? Can they derive any joy from existing? Or is it just pain, misery, and a shell of a former self that is left after having been ravaged by progressive disease?

    So, the Right labels pro-euthanasia folks as being part of a Culture of Death. It's kind of like the Left saying the Right was "pushing granny off the cliff" by cutting Medicare funding. Each side demonizes the other to push their agenda. Gotta love it.
    New Thread
    Other Resources The Political Joe » A thread that we can't let die...or can we? Rss Feed  
    Show Per page
     
     
    of 2
     
     
    RELATED POSTS

    Yay, a gun thread Pages: 1 2

    Started by tuwood
    Views: 2313 Posts: 28

    2013-09-11 5:09 PM powerman

    Just when you think life can't get any worse

    Started by BrianRunsPhilly
    Views: 931 Posts: 3

    2013-08-16 10:17 AM Pector55

    Let Kids Drink at Your House and You Could Go to Jail, Maine Couple Warns

    Started by DanielG
    Views: 2024 Posts: 16

    2013-06-17 4:02 PM Meljoypip

    'The' Gun Thread Pages: 1 ... 45 46 47 48

    Started by Ron
    Views: 38150 Posts: 1177

    2013-06-21 10:20 AM powerman

    Gun threads - UPDATE

    Started by Ron
    Views: 2778 Posts: 2

    2013-06-06 12:18 PM Ron
    RELATED ARTICLES
    date : April 27, 2012
    author : myred86
    comments : 4
    So much of what I thought a triathlon simply wasn't correct. How an okay Masters swimmer makes it through his first triathlon - slowly!
     
    date : December 1, 2011
    author : garyhallsr
    comments : 0
    Olympic swimmer advises not spending too much time on swim training in the winter, depending on your ability
    date : December 15, 2008
    author : bigfella3
    comments : 12
    And then I saw it. I got to "The Hill." It looked a bit innocent really, in reflection - just a little hill, with the road bending around to the left...
     
    date : September 24, 2008
    author : Tri Swim Coach
    comments : 1
    I went to the pool the other day and realized I can't float at all. It makes it really hard to swim properly. I get no propulsion from my kick. Any suggestions?