Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs (Page 4)
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2015-07-15 10:52 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag AG PED testing is a complex problem that I don't think they quite know how to tackle yet.
What would be the incentive for AG testing? Why would the governing bodies of the sport pay for that? AG racing is purely a money making venture for them. Same reason they have draft marshals on the course. But I'm not going to convince you. |
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2015-07-15 10:56 AM in reply to: mike761 |
812 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by Jet Black So how is it determined that something is a PED? I was perusing a well known endurance supplement company's website after one of their athletes won a big race and came across a product that advertises this: Increases VO2Max Increases anaerobic threshold Reduces lactic acid & Modulates Cortisol How is this not classified as a PED? What's the product? maybe it is a PED Well the pro uses it so I doubt it's banned. Advertised as "clinically proven to improve performance" LOL!!! http://firstendurance.com/nutrition/optygenhp.html |
2015-07-15 10:57 AM in reply to: msteiner |
812 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by msteiner Originally posted by mchadcota2 C'mon guys help me out. I can't be the only one on here with a lack of integrity. I halfway thought about steroids to try to get some Robert Forstemann legs. Tell the truth, you just wanted to be able to make some toast. |
2015-07-15 10:58 AM in reply to: Jet Black |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Jet Black Originally posted by msteiner Tell the truth, you just wanted to be able to make some toast. Originally posted by mchadcota2 C'mon guys help me out. I can't be the only one on here with a lack of integrity. I halfway thought about steroids to try to get some Robert Forstemann legs. Pshh! That man is weaksauce compared to my $10 Walmart Toaster! |
2015-07-15 11:01 AM in reply to: Jet Black |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Jet Black Originally posted by mike761 Well the pro uses it so I doubt it's banned. Advertised as "clinically proven to improve performance" LOL!!! http://firstendurance.com/nutrition/optygenhp.htmlOriginally posted by Jet Black So how is it determined that something is a PED? I was perusing a well known endurance supplement company's website after one of their athletes won a big race and came across a product that advertises this: Increases VO2Max Increases anaerobic threshold Reduces lactic acid & Modulates Cortisol How is this not classified as a PED? What's the product? maybe it is a PED My line of thinking when I see a product that makes those sorts of claims is that if it is indeed true then it is a PED and would be banned. Therefore: a) it's a banned substance Either way I would be wasting my money by taking it. |
2015-07-15 11:38 AM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Left Brain Same reason they have draft marshals on the course. But I'm not going to convince you. Originally posted by marcag AG PED testing is a complex problem that I don't think they quite know how to tackle yet.
What would be the incentive for AG testing? Why would the governing bodies of the sport pay for that? AG racing is purely a money making venture for them. Draft marshals are cheap. Testing, administration, and storage of test results is the opposite of cheap. You can convince me it's needed at the AG level, but you can't convince me it will implemented because I know better. Soon enough I'm going to find out how it's done on the elite level. Should be interesting. |
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2015-07-15 12:05 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
489 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Left Brain Same reason they have draft marshals on the course. But I'm not going to convince you. Originally posted by marcag AG PED testing is a complex problem that I don't think they quite know how to tackle yet.
What would be the incentive for AG testing? Why would the governing bodies of the sport pay for that? AG racing is purely a money making venture for them. Draft marshals are cheap. Testing, administration, and storage of test results is the opposite of cheap. You can convince me it's needed at the AG level, but you can't convince me it will implemented because I know better. Soon enough I'm going to find out how it's done on the elite level. Should be interesting. It's not done with any conviction at any level of sport. The Olympic motto demands it. Faster, higher, stronger - they won't be getting that if they sort out PEDs. Other professional sports are also disincentivised to really tackle the issue - the stars need to be more spectacular, play more regularly and keep the money rolling through the TV screens. As for age groupers - racing is fun but training is more fun. If you can get hold of PEDs that mean you can train more frequently, to a higher quality, with less recovery time and long term benefits then it's better than smoking or drinking. PEDs still have the reputation for being extremely risky to your health - hence all the Eastern European and American athlete deaths in the 80s and 90s when Russia and the US were vying to beat each other at everything. These days things have moved on. The longer term impacts are more understood, dosing, periodisation and monitoring are far more advanced so people get more out of them with less of the downside. I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. |
2015-07-15 12:12 PM in reply to: Dan-L |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Dan-L Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Left Brain Same reason they have draft marshals on the course. But I'm not going to convince you. Originally posted by marcag AG PED testing is a complex problem that I don't think they quite know how to tackle yet.
What would be the incentive for AG testing? Why would the governing bodies of the sport pay for that? AG racing is purely a money making venture for them. Draft marshals are cheap. Testing, administration, and storage of test results is the opposite of cheap. You can convince me it's needed at the AG level, but you can't convince me it will implemented because I know better. Soon enough I'm going to find out how it's done on the elite level. Should be interesting. It's not done with any conviction at any level of sport. The Olympic motto demands it. Faster, higher, stronger - they won't be getting that if they sort out PEDs. Other professional sports are also disincentivised to really tackle the issue - the stars need to be more spectacular, play more regularly and keep the money rolling through the TV screens. As for age groupers - racing is fun but training is more fun. If you can get hold of PEDs that mean you can train more frequently, to a higher quality, with less recovery time and long term benefits then it's better than smoking or drinking. PEDs still have the reputation for being extremely risky to your health - hence all the Eastern European and American athlete deaths in the 80s and 90s when Russia and the US were vying to beat each other at everything. These days things have moved on. The longer term impacts are more understood, dosing, periodisation and monitoring are far more advanced so people get more out of them with less of the downside. I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. I think that's all valid. The problem with the new science is that there is always someone willing to try the "latest" thing......and there is no way to know if that will be harmful or not. If that were not the case I'd be calling for an end to the madness and just make HGH, and some other PED's that can be administered safely, legal for all. It'd just be easier than what is being done now to "control" the use. Still......I'm for clean sport....in all sports. It's the only true test of our physical evolution. |
2015-07-15 12:33 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. Edited by marcag 2015-07-15 12:35 PM |
2015-07-15 12:45 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-15 12:48 PM |
2015-07-15 12:51 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
I apologize, I haven't gone back and read this whole debate but while doing well in AG racing doesn't mean much relative to the actual race, it could propel one from the AG racing into professional opportunities. Couldn't it? |
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2015-07-15 12:58 PM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
I apologize, I haven't gone back and read this whole debate but while doing well in AG racing doesn't mean much relative to the actual race, it could propel one from the AG racing into professional opportunities. Couldn't it? You get to the point where the AG dopers are beating the pros!!! You already see AG racers coming close. So what happens to the sport when the elites/pros are being beat regularly by some 40 year old Age grouper on dope. DO they test??? |
2015-07-15 1:01 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
If you want to just talk economics, then the point at which they would start to test AG races would be one of two scenarios that I can think of: 1. If doping becomes so prevalent that non doping athletes don't even bother to race since they know they are not going to have a fair shake and enrollment drops. 2. If some races start random testing of winners and advertise it in order to get the racers that want a fair fight. I know personally, if there was a race where there was testing, knowing what I know now, that would be my A race. Also, one thing to note; in sports like football, baseball and basketball, the money comes from spectators watching the elite few...that is NOT how the economic model of triathlon works. The bulk of the money does not come from spectators, but from participants...particularly AGers. So you can't use the same model. |
2015-07-15 1:04 PM in reply to: Asalzwed |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
I apologize, I haven't gone back and read this whole debate but while doing well in AG racing doesn't mean much relative to the actual race, it could propel one from the AG racing into professional opportunities. Couldn't it? Yes, it could propel approx. .0001 of the triathlon community into the very bottom level Professional racing where they are still paying their own way and winning virtually nothing. Do you think the governing bodies are going to dig into their ONLY cash cow for the chance at stopping that .0001 from earning virtually nothing? The reality of triathlon, and especially professional triathlon, is lost on many of the participants. Luckily, and unfortunately at the same time, almost nobody cares about it because they are only concerned about their own result and really have no chance to ever get to the higher levels. |
2015-07-15 1:11 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain If you want to just talk economics, then the point at which they would start to test AG races would be one of two scenarios that I can think of: 1. If doping becomes so prevalent that non doping athletes don't even bother to race since they know they are not going to have a fair shake and enrollment drops. 2. If some races start random testing of winners and advertise it in order to get the racers that want a fair fight. I know personally, if there was a race where there was testing, knowing what I know now, that would be my A race. Also, one thing to note; in sports like football, baseball and basketball, the money comes from spectators watching the elite few...that is NOT how the economic model of triathlon works. The bulk of the money does not come from spectators, but from participants...particularly AGers. So you can't use the same model. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
EXACTLY!! So.....if the figure of 20% (some of the higher estimates) of AG racers are using PED's is correct, do you really think that the governing bodies are going to risk losing that 20%? I guess oyu could say that the figure wouldn't be that high if there was testing......but you are giving some egomaniac lunatics (those who would dope for AG purposes) one hell of a benefit of doubt. |
2015-07-15 1:15 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain If you want to just talk economics, then the point at which they would start to test AG races would be one of two scenarios that I can think of: 1. If doping becomes so prevalent that non doping athletes don't even bother to race since they know they are not going to have a fair shake and enrollment drops. 2. If some races start random testing of winners and advertise it in order to get the racers that want a fair fight. I know personally, if there was a race where there was testing, knowing what I know now, that would be my A race. Also, one thing to note; in sports like football, baseball and basketball, the money comes from spectators watching the elite few...that is NOT how the economic model of triathlon works. The bulk of the money does not come from spectators, but from participants...particularly AGers. So you can't use the same model. Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
EXACTLY!! So.....if the figure of 20% (some of the higher estimates) of AG racers are using PED's is correct, do you really think that the governing bodies are going to risk losing that 20%? I guess oyu could say that the figure wouldn't be that high if there was testing......but you are giving some egomaniac lunatics (those who would dope for AG purposes) one hell of a benefit of doubt. Touche |
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2015-07-15 1:18 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs also day of race testing doesn't mean crap, just ask lance. You could dope all winter, stop in april and be clean all race season. there is no way currently to test even if they wanted to. This is why pro cycling created the passport system. |
2015-07-15 1:25 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by dmiller5 also day of race testing doesn't mean crap, just ask lance. You could dope all winter, stop in april and be clean all race season. there is no way currently to test even if they wanted to. This is why pro cycling created the passport system. Even the passport system does not work if you know how it works, you can get around it. |
2015-07-15 1:28 PM in reply to: mike761 |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by mike761 Originally posted by dmiller5 Even the passport system does not work if you know how it works, you can get around it. also day of race testing doesn't mean crap, just ask lance. You could dope all winter, stop in april and be clean all race season. there is no way currently to test even if they wanted to. This is why pro cycling created the passport system. the passport system essentially created a doping ceiling. if you do too much you'll get caught. point is, no way to do any effective doping control with AG racing |
2015-07-15 1:39 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs For whatever is is worth I tend to finish towards the top 10% ish (AG level, running not tri) and my teammates DEFINITELY finish in the top 5 or 10%. Most of them are at the border of being elite but not able to quit their day job. Which is a really hard spot to be in and where I would see athletes likely looking for any advantage possible. But from my experience, I have heard/seen absolutely no PEDs. Nothing. Eating disorders, however, are rampant. Not sure if running and triathlon numbers are different though. |
2015-07-15 1:41 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
I apologize, I haven't gone back and read this whole debate but while doing well in AG racing doesn't mean much relative to the actual race, it could propel one from the AG racing into professional opportunities. Couldn't it? Yes, it could propel approx. .0001 of the triathlon community into the very bottom level Professional racing where they are still paying their own way and winning virtually nothing. Do you think the governing bodies are going to dig into their ONLY cash cow for the chance at stopping that .0001 from earning virtually nothing? The reality of triathlon, and especially professional triathlon, is lost on many of the participants. Luckily, and unfortunately at the same time, almost nobody cares about it because they are only concerned about their own result and really have no chance to ever get to the higher levels. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't necessarily agree that they would come in at the very bottom level but your statement "So.....if the figure of 20% (some of the higher estimates) of AG racers are using PED's is correct, do you really think that the governing bodies are going to risk losing that 20%? I guess oyu could say that the figure wouldn't be that high if there was testing......but you are giving some egomaniac lunatics (those who would dope for AG purposes) one hell of a benefit of doubt. " Would negate anything else I would say. That's pretty hard to argue. And pretty sad. |
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2015-07-15 1:47 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
I apologize, I haven't gone back and read this whole debate but while doing well in AG racing doesn't mean much relative to the actual race, it could propel one from the AG racing into professional opportunities. Couldn't it? Yes, it could propel approx. .0001 of the triathlon community into the very bottom level Professional racing where they are still paying their own way and winning virtually nothing. Do you think the governing bodies are going to dig into their ONLY cash cow for the chance at stopping that .0001 from earning virtually nothing? The reality of triathlon, and especially professional triathlon, is lost on many of the participants. Luckily, and unfortunately at the same time, almost nobody cares about it because they are only concerned about their own result and really have no chance to ever get to the higher levels. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't necessarily agree that they would come in at the very bottom level but your statement "So.....if the figure of 20% (some of the higher estimates) of AG racers are using PED's is correct, do you really think that the governing bodies are going to risk losing that 20%? I guess oyu could say that the figure wouldn't be that high if there was testing......but you are giving some egomaniac lunatics (those who would dope for AG purposes) one hell of a benefit of doubt. " Would negate anything else I would say. That's pretty hard to argue. And pretty sad. Admittedly, my experience with elite/pro racers is all within the Draft Legal ranks. Virtually none of them came up through the AG ranks. Still, if you look at the people who are actually making money in the sport, you won't find many who spent much time racing AG. Most are college runners, or swimmers, who came to triathlon with a big time skill set already in place. Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-15 1:48 PM |
2015-07-15 1:55 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Seattle | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
I apologize, I haven't gone back and read this whole debate but while doing well in AG racing doesn't mean much relative to the actual race, it could propel one from the AG racing into professional opportunities. Couldn't it? Yes, it could propel approx. .0001 of the triathlon community into the very bottom level Professional racing where they are still paying their own way and winning virtually nothing. Do you think the governing bodies are going to dig into their ONLY cash cow for the chance at stopping that .0001 from earning virtually nothing? The reality of triathlon, and especially professional triathlon, is lost on many of the participants. Luckily, and unfortunately at the same time, almost nobody cares about it because they are only concerned about their own result and really have no chance to ever get to the higher levels. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't necessarily agree that they would come in at the very bottom level but your statement "So.....if the figure of 20% (some of the higher estimates) of AG racers are using PED's is correct, do you really think that the governing bodies are going to risk losing that 20%? I guess oyu could say that the figure wouldn't be that high if there was testing......but you are giving some egomaniac lunatics (those who would dope for AG purposes) one hell of a benefit of doubt. " Would negate anything else I would say. That's pretty hard to argue. And pretty sad. Admittedly, my experience with elite/pro racers is all within the Draft Legal ranks. Virtually none of them came up through the AG ranks. Still, if you look at the people who are actually making money in the sport, you won't find many who spent much time racing AG. Most are college runners, or swimmers, who came to triathlon with a big time skill set already in place. Well, my thought would be someone like a Chrissy Wellington type or someone who doesn't have the resources (financial/coaching) who stumbles into a race, does well, goes to Nats the gets "discovered." |
2015-07-15 1:56 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Asalzwed Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Dan-L I've never taken anything but a good friend of mine is a doctor and specialist in sports science. He's very candid about the benefits of certain PEDs - especially human growth hormone which is the real magic PED. A good friend of mine is a Dr in his 60s. He does not compete in any endurance sports. He is on a cocktail of DHEA, HGH and T. He says he has never felt better in his life. He believes, and the result seems to be there that it is good for him. I once told him he couldn't compete at his local Tennis tournaments. He said "F'that, I'm not a doper, I take it for health reasons". I can see his point of view, but he is cheating. THis is probably one of the biggest challenges AG racing faces. Drs are pimping this stuff. You don't need to mail order it from China. The pointy end of racing where guys are micro-dosing EPO is a completely different game. Equally important and probably much harder and more expensive to police. But leave either of the problems unattended and you end up with a big mess. It's just a matter of time and the sport gets a black eye that is hard to recover from. The bolded part is my point regarding AG racing. There is NO challenge because there is no reason to care. If the home run king at the Tuesday night softball league is bulking up with steroids does anyone really care? Of course they don't. Why? Because there is no benefit to it besides bragging rights....or in other words, you don't lose anything by NOT being the HR king. Our sport is no different, although you could easily make the argument that people who do triathlon THINK they are different. As long as there are AG'ers willing to pay for the right to compete at higher and higher AG level races then you will have no testing. It cost my family nearly 5000.00 to go watch Jr. compete at AG worlds last year.......and even if all of us wouldn't have gone it would have cost us at least half that just to send him. (actually a bit more than half) And now what......governing bodies are going to test and possibly disqualify people who are on their own dime?? Sure they are. Right after your local parks and recreation dept. tests the softball players. LMAO
I apologize, I haven't gone back and read this whole debate but while doing well in AG racing doesn't mean much relative to the actual race, it could propel one from the AG racing into professional opportunities. Couldn't it? Yes, it could propel approx. .0001 of the triathlon community into the very bottom level Professional racing where they are still paying their own way and winning virtually nothing. Do you think the governing bodies are going to dig into their ONLY cash cow for the chance at stopping that .0001 from earning virtually nothing? The reality of triathlon, and especially professional triathlon, is lost on many of the participants. Luckily, and unfortunately at the same time, almost nobody cares about it because they are only concerned about their own result and really have no chance to ever get to the higher levels. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't necessarily agree that they would come in at the very bottom level but your statement "So.....if the figure of 20% (some of the higher estimates) of AG racers are using PED's is correct, do you really think that the governing bodies are going to risk losing that 20%? I guess oyu could say that the figure wouldn't be that high if there was testing......but you are giving some egomaniac lunatics (those who would dope for AG purposes) one hell of a benefit of doubt. " Would negate anything else I would say. That's pretty hard to argue. And pretty sad. Admittedly, my experience with elite/pro racers is all within the Draft Legal ranks. Virtually none of them came up through the AG ranks. Still, if you look at the people who are actually making money in the sport, you won't find many who spent much time racing AG. Most are college runners, or swimmers, who came to triathlon with a big time skill set already in place. Well, my thought would be someone like a Chrissy Wellington type or someone who doesn't have the resources (financial/coaching) who stumbles into a race, does well, goes to Nats the gets "discovered." OK, now we're talking less than .0001......WAY less. Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-15 1:57 PM |
2015-07-15 2:00 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Prevalence of PED's in AG'rs OK, so damage control: how much does it actually help these guys? Will PEDs get a 1:30 sprinter to the point of 1:08ish where he could start winning races? Or are we talking the guy coming in top ten dropping 5 minutes to get 1st? That's the counter argument you hear in support of PEDs, is that it won't make you or I Lance Armstrong. But I am curious how much it actually helps. |
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