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2016-03-28 11:15 AM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 



2016-03-28 11:24 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/



Edited by msteiner 2016-03-28 11:25 AM
2016-03-28 11:45 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/

so reading the research, I don't think it quite shows the entire picture.  but regardless, I am fine with paying more.  I believe that the Nordic countries have it right.  I dated a swede, and so I feel like I have a better understanding of their system then a lot of americans. 

this article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

2016-03-28 12:56 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/

so reading the research, I don't think it quite shows the entire picture.  but regardless, I am fine with paying more.  I believe that the Nordic countries have it right.  I dated a swede, and so I feel like I have a better understanding of their system then a lot of americans. 

this article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

You may be fine with paying more, but do you think the average 50k income household with a child is going to be ok with paying $6,820 more?  That's a little over 3 paychecks gone that they normally would get.  Most families can't afford losing a month and a half worth of pay.

2016-03-28 1:35 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Extreme Veteran
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2000100025
Maryland
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/

so reading the research, I don't think it quite shows the entire picture.  but regardless, I am fine with paying more.  I believe that the Nordic countries have it right.  I dated a swede, and so I feel like I have a better understanding of their system then a lot of americans. 

this article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

You may be fine with paying more, but do you think the average 50k income household with a child is going to be ok with paying $6,820 more?  That's a little over 3 paychecks gone that they normally would get.  Most families can't afford losing a month and a half worth of pay.

but this doesn't take into account the medical costs that would now be $0 a year.  it also doesn't take into account the potential value of these programs. that was my point with the article

2016-03-28 1:58 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Ridgeland, Mississippi
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/

so reading the research, I don't think it quite shows the entire picture.  but regardless, I am fine with paying more.  I believe that the Nordic countries have it right.  I dated a swede, and so I feel like I have a better understanding of their system then a lot of americans. 

this article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

You may be fine with paying more, but do you think the average 50k income household with a child is going to be ok with paying $6,820 more?  That's a little over 3 paychecks gone that they normally would get.  Most families can't afford losing a month and a half worth of pay.

but this doesn't take into account the medical costs that would now be $0 a year.  it also doesn't take into account the potential value of these programs. that was my point with the article

That family likely has a job that is subsidizing their medicare costs.  I for example pay ~$41 per paycheck.  If the aforementioned middle class family had this same arrangement, then the free healthcare doesn't offset enough for it to matter.  They're still down ~$5,820.



2016-03-28 2:09 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Extreme Veteran
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Maryland
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/

so reading the research, I don't think it quite shows the entire picture.  but regardless, I am fine with paying more.  I believe that the Nordic countries have it right.  I dated a swede, and so I feel like I have a better understanding of their system then a lot of americans. 

this article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

You may be fine with paying more, but do you think the average 50k income household with a child is going to be ok with paying $6,820 more?  That's a little over 3 paychecks gone that they normally would get.  Most families can't afford losing a month and a half worth of pay.

but this doesn't take into account the medical costs that would now be $0 a year.  it also doesn't take into account the potential value of these programs. that was my point with the article

That family likely has a job that is subsidizing their medicare costs.  I for example pay ~$41 per paycheck.  If the aforementioned middle class family had this same arrangement, then the free healthcare doesn't offset enough for it to matter.  They're still down ~$5,820.

someone is still paying it.  in that case, its the business they are employed by.  They could now pay their employees that money potentially, or it could help businesses grow.  As much as conservatives like to say that he is anti business with these policies, in fact it reduces the burden on businesses in many ways.

2016-03-28 2:13 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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1614
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread
Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/

so reading the research, I don't think it quite shows the entire picture.  but regardless, I am fine with paying more.  I believe that the Nordic countries have it right.  I dated a swede, and so I feel like I have a better understanding of their system then a lot of americans. 

this article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

You may be fine with paying more, but do you think the average 50k income household with a child is going to be ok with paying $6,820 more?  That's a little over 3 paychecks gone that they normally would get.  Most families can't afford losing a month and a half worth of pay.

but this doesn't take into account the medical costs that would now be $0 a year.  it also doesn't take into account the potential value of these programs. that was my point with the article

That family likely has a job that is subsidizing their medicare costs.  I for example pay ~$41 per paycheck.  If the aforementioned middle class family had this same arrangement, then the free healthcare doesn't offset enough for it to matter.  They're still down ~$5,820.




But here's the trick with employer's health insurance. Family plan deductible for my plan ($104 monthly premium) is $2,600 with max out-of-pocket being $5,600. I'd rather pay taxes of 6k and have some other benefits, than the same amount of just health insurance.
2016-03-28 2:26 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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St. Louis
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by dmiller5

I'm not sure where the calculator is getting their numbers, but it reads funny to me.  I got a 27% rate, paying 6000 more or so....but I'm pretty sure that what my rate is already.

 

They got their numbers from these guys: 

http://election2016.taxpolicycenter.org/

so reading the research, I don't think it quite shows the entire picture.  but regardless, I am fine with paying more.  I believe that the Nordic countries have it right.  I dated a swede, and so I feel like I have a better understanding of their system then a lot of americans. 

this article explains it pretty well I think:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-nordic-countries/473385/

You may be fine with paying more, but do you think the average 50k income household with a child is going to be ok with paying $6,820 more?  That's a little over 3 paychecks gone that they normally would get.  Most families can't afford losing a month and a half worth of pay.

but this doesn't take into account the medical costs that would now be $0 a year.  it also doesn't take into account the potential value of these programs. that was my point with the article

That family likely has a job that is subsidizing their medicare costs.  I for example pay ~$41 per paycheck.  If the aforementioned middle class family had this same arrangement, then the free healthcare doesn't offset enough for it to matter.  They're still down ~$5,820.

$41 for yourself, or for a family? If that's just for yourself, then the aforementioned family is irrelevant. If that's what it costs to cover your entire family, then wow! You have an amazing personnel department.

2016-03-29 9:13 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread
Originally posted by msteiner

Bernie supporters, help me out here.  While I am a conservative, I do glance occasionally at both Vox and ThinkProgress to see what the other side is saying.  Friday Vox posted this:

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/3/25/11293258/tax-plan-calculator-2016

The calculator gives a snapshot of how each of the major candidates affect people individually using data put in about their tax plans.

I've plugged in a few different numbers: 15k for minimum wage, 50k and married with 1 child for your middle class family, and 200k for your upper class.  All of these different scenarios  give roughly the same conclusion:

With Trump and Cruz you save a good bit, with Hillary you pay about the same as you do now, and with Bernie you pay a large amount (approx 10% more) than you do now.  A person making minimum wage pays almost $1,500 a year more in taxes.  

From what I've read on reddit posts about this, the response is "but where's the savings you get from Bernie's healthcare plan".  Isn't healthcare already free under Obamacare if you're making minimum wage?  If that's true, then you're paying more for Bernie's free health care as opposed to now.  

This is my number one concern with Bernie.  I think he's a good guy, but I haven't been convinced that there's a way that his policies add up.  That is a big part of Hillary's campaign against him.

So my question for Bernie supporters is "is this calculator wrong, and if so, how?".

 




I had a discussion about Vox calculator with my fb group. Some interesting reading:
http://datatitian.com/why-voxs-numbers-for-bernie-sanderss-tax-plan...

Here is the calculator based on Bernie's proposal:
http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0

I hope it helps
2016-03-29 9:19 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread
Originally posted by msteiner

That family likely has a job that is subsidizing their medicare costs.  I for example pay ~$41 per paycheck.  If the aforementioned middle class family had this same arrangement, then the free healthcare doesn't offset enough for it to matter.  They're still down ~$5,820.




Do you work for health insurance company? That might been about what I would paid if I got a job at one. I am $150 a month just for me. The one internet meme I saw if Sanders got rid of my college debt I would come out ahead on that.

I might be looking for "free stuff" but so is my boss. He wants me to work extra enough hours (that I do not get paid for) that more than pays for my salary. So in theory he does get me for free. Even if he can't bill my time for after hours to the customer if I put in 5 extra hours a week I am free for him.


2016-03-29 10:08 AM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Ridgeland, Mississippi
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread

 

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

$41 for yourself, or for a family? If that's just for yourself, then the aforementioned family is irrelevant. If that's what it costs to cover your entire family, then wow! You have an amazing personnel department.

The $41 per paycheck is for me individually.  I forget the numbers, but it was found that it was better for my family situation if my wife kept our son under her plan.  She works at the VA, and her insurance plan was a bit more flexible.

In short, like you said the example I gave doesn't fit, and I'll claim error in my part for that.

Originally posted by dmiller5

someone is still paying it.  in that case, its the business they are employed by.  They could now pay their employees that money potentially, or it could help businesses grow.  As much as conservatives like to say that he is anti business with these policies, in fact it reduces the burden on businesses in many ways.

They could pay more, but I seriously doubt that would happen.  That's pretty close to the idea of "trickle down economics", and that ideology gets bashed all the time.

Originally posted by marysia83 
I had a discussion about Vox calculator with my fb group. Some interesting reading: http://datatitian.com/why-voxs-numbers-for-bernie-sanderss-tax-plan... Here is the calculator based on Bernie's proposal: http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0I hope it helps

There's a lot to read there, but I will take a look at it.  Thanks for this

2016-03-29 10:18 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Bernie Sanders Thread
Definitely take a look. It's a lot of analysis and "math" language... but I found it helpful in understanding how taxes (and tax calculations) work.
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