General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop? Rss Feed  
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2016-02-04 4:11 AM


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Subject: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
I would like to participate in swimathons and triathlons. However, I feel breathless whenever I swim freestyle and I know there is something wrong with my technique. A private swimming instructor would be extremely helpful as I was able to learn freestyle in 4 lessons under the guidance of a private swim coach. I also learnt that total immersion is a far more efficient stroke. However, TI workshops are exhorbitant as the only certified TI school in town is charging $400 for a 2 day 9 hour group workshop. My private swimming coach has taught national swimmers and is also teaching lifesaving and he is charging $60-70 per lesson.

Which is more suitable for someone who just wants to improve his freestyle stroke and stamina?


2016-02-04 5:55 AM
in reply to: piero89

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Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
Just my $0.02, but in my mind, good swimming is good swimming and there is nothing magic about a particular branded approach like TI. If your instructor is well-qualified and you made good progress with him before, then I would guess that you would progress more quickly with the one-on-one attention and feedback than in a group workshop. Also depends on your learning style--personally my attention would start to flag if instruction in pretty much anything went on for 4-5 hours in a day. I'd think that for most people, breaking it into smaller, more manageable chunks focused on one aspect of technique at a time, and tailoring instruction and drills to the needs of the swimmer, would be more effective.

Caveat, I'm an elementary teacher, not a swim instructor. I do coach kids, though, sometimes in swimming and in track and field. Just my observations of how people learn in general.
2016-02-04 6:57 AM
in reply to: piero89

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Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
Originally posted by piero89

I would like to participate in swimathons and triathlons. However, I feel breathless whenever I swim freestyle and I know there is something wrong with my technique. A private swimming instructor would be extremely helpful as I was able to learn freestyle in 4 lessons under the guidance of a private swim coach. I also learnt that total immersion is a far more efficient stroke. However, TI workshops are exhorbitant as the only certified TI school in town is charging $400 for a 2 day 9 hour group workshop. My private swimming coach has taught national swimmers and is also teaching lifesaving and he is charging $60-70 per lesson.

Which is more suitable for someone who just wants to improve his freestyle stroke and stamina?


Total Immersion is not a stroke, it is a method to teach swimming.

If you can work with a swim coach who has taught nationally ranked swimmers and its cheaper and more convenient. Stick with him/her.
2016-02-04 7:38 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?

Originally posted by mike761 Total Immersion is not a stroke, it is a method to teach swimming. If you can work with a swim coach who has taught nationally ranked swimmers and its cheaper and more convenient. Stick with him/her.

Although there are certain fundamentals that overlap with all swimming approaches, TI teaches a method that is unique in certain ways.  Their emphasis is on a hip-driven stroke that focuses on body position and drag reduction over propulsion.  It's a very efficient method and is often well-suited to adult onset swimmers and those new to longer distance OW swimming.

On the other end of the spectrum are shoulder-driven methods that focus more on propulsion with a high elbow catch and pull.  It's typically a faster way to swim, more derivative of competitive swimming.  Bu it is somewhat tougher to learn and requires more physical strength.

TI does a good job with their workshops, but ongoing feedback is invaluable if you want to continue to improve.  If the OP has access to a local coach, then I would be inclined to recommend that approach.

Mark

 

      

2016-02-04 8:00 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Originally posted by mike761 Total Immersion is not a stroke, it is a method to teach swimming. If you can work with a swim coach who has taught nationally ranked swimmers and its cheaper and more convenient. Stick with him/her.

Although there are certain fundamentals that overlap with all swimming approaches, TI teaches a method that is unique in certain ways.  Their emphasis is on a hip-driven stroke that focuses on body position and drag reduction over propulsion.  It's a very efficient method and is often well-suited to adult onset swimmers and those new to longer distance OW swimming.

On the other end of the spectrum are shoulder-driven methods that focus more on propulsion with a high elbow catch and pull.  It's typically a faster way to swim, more derivative of competitive swimming.  Bu it is somewhat tougher to learn and requires more physical strength.

TI does a good job with their workshops, but ongoing feedback is invaluable if you want to continue to improve.  If the OP has access to a local coach, then I would be inclined to recommend that approach.

Mark

 

      




Every good instructor focuses on body position first.

Front crawl is front crawl , and everybody's stroke is a little different . Yes even competitive swimmers stroke change when swimming sprints vs long distance.

I'm not saying TI is not a good method of learning, but to say it is a better way to swim OW or long distance is just false. It is a teaching method that broke down the stroke, marketed, commercialized, and sold it to people. No different of a method than good instructors have been using for ever. The big difference is they slapped a name on it and sold it to Triathletes.
2016-02-04 11:21 AM
in reply to: piero89

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Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
From my own experience: I had an issue with breathing as well. I did group lessons, and private lessons. After private lesson I was able to swim one lap. Still struggling. I read the TI book (which I bought on Amazon for 3 cents plus shipping...) and I followed what the book said, and I am swimming sets of 100 with no problem.
I agree that it all depends on the instructor. So maybe I just did not have the best one. If I were you, I would go with private instructor and buy the book for those few cents, and see what works for you.


2016-02-04 11:26 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Originally posted by mike761 Total Immersion is not a stroke, it is a method to teach swimming. If you can work with a swim coach who has taught nationally ranked swimmers and its cheaper and more convenient. Stick with him/her.

Although there are certain fundamentals that overlap with all swimming approaches, TI teaches a method that is unique in certain ways.  Their emphasis is on a hip-driven stroke that focuses on body position and drag reduction over propulsion.  It's a very efficient method and is often well-suited to adult onset swimmers and those new to longer distance OW swimming.

On the other end of the spectrum are shoulder-driven methods that focus more on propulsion with a high elbow catch and pull.  It's typically a faster way to swim, more derivative of competitive swimming.  Bu it is somewhat tougher to learn and requires more physical strength.

TI does a good job with their workshops, but ongoing feedback is invaluable if you want to continue to improve.  If the OP has access to a local coach, then I would be inclined to recommend that approach.

Mark

 

      

Every good instructor focuses on body position first. Front crawl is front crawl , and everybody's stroke is a little different . Yes even competitive swimmers stroke change when swimming sprints vs long distance. I'm not saying TI is not a good method of learning, but to say it is a better way to swim OW or long distance is just false. It is a teaching method that broke down the stroke, marketed, commercialized, and sold it to people. No different of a method than good instructors have been using for ever. The big difference is they slapped a name on it and sold it to Triathletes.

I have had the very unique prospective over the past few years to have gone through a TI race prep program run by Suzanne Atkinson, attended a couple of clinics put on by Dr. Genadijus Sokolovas (former high performance coach for USA Swimming), and then for the last year had Sheila Taormina as my masters coach, with Ernie Maglischo filling in for Sheila for a few days when she had to be out of town.  I would dare you to tell any of them that  "Front crawl is front crawl".  

Thanks to Suzanne's coaching I was 2nd out of the water for my AG ( & 35th overall) at St. Anthony's sprint race last year.  That was using a hip-driven stroke with a fair amount of body roll, and a two-beat kick, as is typical for TI.  Nice & smooth, and almost effortless, but I subsequently ended up hitting a plateau speed-wise swimming that way.

Over the past year I've completely re-worked my stroke with Sheila T.  It's now a much flatter, arm & shoulder driven stroke with the primary focus on the catch & pull at  the front end of the stroke, plus a much greater emphasis on kicking.  With Sheila, it's all about propulsion.  It's more demanding physically at first, but much faster once you get the hang of it.  It took me about six months doing a lot of drill work to get the new stroke ingrained to the point where I could worry about  training rather than just technique.  And just for the record, I can't remember Sheila saying anything about body position in the last year (I asked her about my head position once and she told me not to worry about it, just concentrate on my catch.  Somewhat ironically, we do a lot of Tarzan drill sets with our heads out of the water.  Hated them at first, but a great strength-building drill).

Granted, if you go to a typical masters swim meet, the guys swimming the 400 will use a 'longer' stroke with some glide, as opposed the the sprinters swimming 50's and 100's.  In reality, elite level swimmers vary their tempo or turnover rate, not their stroke mechanics, with the exception of switching kick patterns on longer races. One exception are elite sprinters, such as Nathan Adrian, who will switch from a high-elbow to straight-arm pull at the end of a race.  

I still maintain that TI is probably a better route for the typical time-challenged adult onset swimmer doing triathlons.  It's easy to learn, efficient and less taxing physically.  It's just harder to swim fast using it.

And yes, TI is a great marketing company.  They've done a good job of identifying and exploiting a niche in the market.  Good for them.  

Mark 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 .  

2016-02-04 11:59 AM
in reply to: piero89

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Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
Originally posted by piero89

I would like to participate in swimathons and triathlons. However, I feel breathless whenever I swim freestyle and I know there is something wrong with my technique. A private swimming instructor would be extremely helpful as I was able to learn freestyle in 4 lessons under the guidance of a private swim coach. I also learnt that total immersion is a far more efficient stroke. However, TI workshops are exhorbitant as the only certified TI school in town is charging $400 for a 2 day 9 hour group workshop. My private swimming coach has taught national swimmers and is also teaching lifesaving and he is charging $60-70 per lesson.

Which is more suitable for someone who just wants to improve his freestyle stroke and stamina?


If your local coach/instructor is very good (and that is a big 'if'), I would definitely start with some instruction from him/her. But T.I. does have some good ideas for beginner swimmers, so head over to amazon (or to the local library, even if via interlibrary loan) and check out some freestyle T.I. books and videos. That way you get the best benefits of both.


Greg @ dsw

2016-02-06 7:34 AM
in reply to: piero89

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Green Bay, WI
Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
I took a class last year with a buddy who struggled with his swimming. One weekend he went and took a TI 2-day class. The result were visible immediately to me. Personally I think he got mor out of that than he did our 6 or 8 week class. I'm recommend the TI route if it's convenient.
2016-02-07 9:32 PM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Subject: RE: Should i hire a private swimming instructor or attend TI workshop?
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Originally posted by mike761 Total Immersion is not a stroke, it is a method to teach swimming. If you can work with a swim coach who has taught nationally ranked swimmers and its cheaper and more convenient. Stick with him/her.

Although there are certain fundamentals that overlap with all swimming approaches, TI teaches a method that is unique in certain ways.  Their emphasis is on a hip-driven stroke that focuses on body position and drag reduction over propulsion.  It's a very efficient method and is often well-suited to adult onset swimmers and those new to longer distance OW swimming.

On the other end of the spectrum are shoulder-driven methods that focus more on propulsion with a high elbow catch and pull.  It's typically a faster way to swim, more derivative of competitive swimming.  Bu it is somewhat tougher to learn and requires more physical strength.

TI does a good job with their workshops, but ongoing feedback is invaluable if you want to continue to improve.  If the OP has access to a local coach, then I would be inclined to recommend that approach.

Mark

 

      

Every good instructor focuses on body position first. Front crawl is front crawl , and everybody's stroke is a little different . Yes even competitive swimmers stroke change when swimming sprints vs long distance. I'm not saying TI is not a good method of learning, but to say it is a better way to swim OW or long distance is just false. It is a teaching method that broke down the stroke, marketed, commercialized, and sold it to people. No different of a method than good instructors have been using for ever. The big difference is they slapped a name on it and sold it to Triathletes.

I have had the very unique prospective over the past few years to have gone through a TI race prep program run by Suzanne Atkinson, attended a couple of clinics put on by Dr. Genadijus Sokolovas (former high performance coach for USA Swimming), and then for the last year had Sheila Taormina as my masters coach, with Ernie Maglischo filling in for Sheila for a few days when she had to be out of town.  I would dare you to tell any of them that  "Front crawl is front crawl".  

Thanks to Suzanne's coaching I was 2nd out of the water for my AG ( & 35th overall) at St. Anthony's sprint race last year.  That was using a hip-driven stroke with a fair amount of body roll, and a two-beat kick, as is typical for TI.  Nice & smooth, and almost effortless, but I subsequently ended up hitting a plateau speed-wise swimming that way.

Over the past year I've completely re-worked my stroke with Sheila T.  It's now a much flatter, arm & shoulder driven stroke with the primary focus on the catch & pull at  the front end of the stroke, plus a much greater emphasis on kicking.  With Sheila, it's all about propulsion.  It's more demanding physically at first, but much faster once you get the hang of it.  It took me about six months doing a lot of drill work to get the new stroke ingrained to the point where I could worry about  training rather than just technique.  And just for the record, I can't remember Sheila saying anything about body position in the last year (I asked her about my head position once and she told me not to worry about it, just concentrate on my catch.  Somewhat ironically, we do a lot of Tarzan drill sets with our heads out of the water.  Hated them at first, but a great strength-building drill).

Granted, if you go to a typical masters swim meet, the guys swimming the 400 will use a 'longer' stroke with some glide, as opposed the the sprinters swimming 50's and 100's.  In reality, elite level swimmers vary their tempo or turnover rate, not their stroke mechanics, with the exception of switching kick patterns on longer races. One exception are elite sprinters, such as Nathan Adrian, who will switch from a high-elbow to straight-arm pull at the end of a race.  

I still maintain that TI is probably a better route for the typical time-challenged adult onset swimmer doing triathlons.  It's easy to learn, efficient and less taxing physically.  It's just harder to swim fast using it.

And yes, TI is a great marketing company.  They've done a good job of identifying and exploiting a niche in the market.  Good for them.  

Mark 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 .  




Thanks for all the kind words Mark. If I'd had 6 months with you 1 on 1 I'd have gotten you off your plateau as well.

To the OP you've gotten a variety of input here, do what you are able to. If $400 is too much for you, I assume you are not planning on buying a wetsuit, purchasing a Garmin device, getting race wheels, signing up for more than 2 races...

Seriously, the expenses in tri add up, if swimming is your weakness, you'll need to spend time on it, and probably money as well.

A weekend workshop may or may not be better than your local coach. If your local coach has coached national champions, are you the same type of athlete he has worked with in the past? Same starting material? Do you have the same time to put into your swimming as those swimmers he's gotten great results with?

TI is a systematic way of teaching a highly efficient freestyle. Meaning that you have the option of using that efficiency to a) save energy for bike/run or b) add more input to swim faster or both.

In either case, a good local swim coach is probably the most valuable...but some folks have had extremely good results witha single 2 day workshop.

9 hours of instruction for $400 is $45 / hr...that's hardly exorbitant. Sure it's group instruction, but the student:teacher ratio is limited by TI workshop guidelines and instruction is hands on, and you'll get video feedback.
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