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2017-12-05 9:42 AM

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Subject: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/04/donald-trump-shr...


Are you kidding me? 1.35 and 1.9 million acres?! Trump reduced this by 85%.

Go Trump go!! I am a big fan of state sovereignty and believe the states are slowly losing their sovereignty as the federal government takes away states rights....and land. Good to see Trump undo the overreach of Obama and Clinton.





2017-12-05 8:00 PM
in reply to: #5231997

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
... and Teddy Roosevelt.
2017-12-06 1:32 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah

It's baffling to me that you are seemingly cackling with glee as our government casts aside important public lands. It's not about power or politics to me (state or federal, conservative or liberal), but about conserving our national treasures. Once they're gone, they're gone. 

Not sure if you've ever been to Bear's Ears, but it's an amazing place with a lot of historical significance. It will be sad to see it taken over for corporate interests. I don't care how it became or who did it. It's not about reversing everything Obama did, it's about an important piece of our country's character.

2017-12-06 2:29 PM
in reply to: Stacers

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
Originally posted by Stacers

It's baffling to me that you are seemingly cackling with glee as our government casts aside important public lands. It's not about power or politics to me (state or federal, conservative or liberal), but about conserving our national treasures. Once they're gone, they're gone. 

Not sure if you've ever been to Bear's Ears, but it's an amazing place with a lot of historical significance. It will be sad to see it taken over for corporate interests. I don't care how it became or who did it. It's not about reversing everything Obama did, it's about an important piece of our country's character.




It is STILL public land but is now under the control of the state instead of the feds. The Federal government has no business taking 1,351,849 acres from the state of Utah.....the antiquities law says they can only take "as much as is necessary to preserve the antiquity" or words to that effect.

Think about this.....a section is 1 mile x 1 mile and is made up of 640 acres.

1,351,849 acres / 640 acres/sqmi = 2,112 square miles

Assume the area is 20 miles wide.....that would make it over 100 miles long.

The other monument was 1.9 million acres! 20 miles wide by 148 mile long.

This is land that belongs to Utah not the federal government....but it is STILL public land.

And what I am 'gleeful' about is Trump is dialing back federal overreach! These lands were taken from the state by the Federal government under the antiquities act (or something like that) but they took too much. Why? Because they could! Kings Obama and King Clinton didn't care about states' rights! Evidently Trump does!

2017-12-06 2:39 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Stacers

It's baffling to me that you are seemingly cackling with glee as our government casts aside important public lands. It's not about power or politics to me (state or federal, conservative or liberal), but about conserving our national treasures. Once they're gone, they're gone. 

Not sure if you've ever been to Bear's Ears, but it's an amazing place with a lot of historical significance. It will be sad to see it taken over for corporate interests. I don't care how it became or who did it. It's not about reversing everything Obama did, it's about an important piece of our country's character.

It is STILL public land but is now under the control of the state instead of the feds. The Federal government has no business taking 1,351,849 acres from the state of Utah.....the antiquities law says they can only take "as much as is necessary to preserve the antiquity" or words to that effect. Think about this.....a section is 1 mile x 1 mile and is made up of 640 acres. 1,351,849 acres / 640 acres/sqmi = 2,112 square miles Assume the area is 20 miles wide.....that would make it over 100 miles long. The other monument was 1.9 million acres! 20 miles wide by 148 mile long. This is land that belongs to Utah not the federal government....but it is STILL public land. And what I am 'gleeful' about is Trump is dialing back federal overreach! These lands were taken from the state by the Federal government under the antiquities act (or something like that) but they took too much. Why? Because they could! Kings Obama and King Clinton didn't care about states' rights! Evidently Trump does!

Let's be honest here: if Obama had trimmed down the size of the federal lands, Trump would've rolled THAT back and claimed he was doing the great job of protecting national treasures for all Americans.

He's all about pandering to his base, and contradicting anything Obama did is easy pickings.  I don't think he has even an inkling of what federalism means, state vs. federal law, eminent domain, etc.

2017-12-06 2:56 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Stacers

It's baffling to me that you are seemingly cackling with glee as our government casts aside important public lands. It's not about power or politics to me (state or federal, conservative or liberal), but about conserving our national treasures. Once they're gone, they're gone. 

Not sure if you've ever been to Bear's Ears, but it's an amazing place with a lot of historical significance. It will be sad to see it taken over for corporate interests. I don't care how it became or who did it. It's not about reversing everything Obama did, it's about an important piece of our country's character.

It is STILL public land but is now under the control of the state instead of the feds. The Federal government has no business taking 1,351,849 acres from the state of Utah.....the antiquities law says they can only take "as much as is necessary to preserve the antiquity" or words to that effect. Think about this.....a section is 1 mile x 1 mile and is made up of 640 acres. 1,351,849 acres / 640 acres/sqmi = 2,112 square miles Assume the area is 20 miles wide.....that would make it over 100 miles long. The other monument was 1.9 million acres! 20 miles wide by 148 mile long. This is land that belongs to Utah not the federal government....but it is STILL public land. And what I am 'gleeful' about is Trump is dialing back federal overreach! These lands were taken from the state by the Federal government under the antiquities act (or something like that) but they took too much. Why? Because they could! Kings Obama and King Clinton didn't care about states' rights! Evidently Trump does!

Let's be honest here: if Obama had trimmed down the size of the federal lands, Trump would've rolled THAT back and claimed he was doing the great job of protecting national treasures for all Americans.

He's all about pandering to his base, and contradicting anything Obama did is easy pickings.  I don't think he has even an inkling of what federalism means, state vs. federal law, eminent domain, etc.




He may not know but his base sure as hell does and if he is 'playing to his base' that is just fine with me! I am part of his base and understand federal overreach. They reduced the size of the land grab by the feds by 85% and still were within the intent of the law that allowed them to take the land.



2017-12-06 3:38 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah

The native Americans should build a wall around their lands to keep immigrants out. 

2017-12-06 3:41 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

The native Americans should build a wall around their lands to keep immigrants out. 

I hope that's not something else I'm supposed to feel guilty about.....because I don't.

2017-12-06 3:53 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

The native Americans should build a wall around their lands to keep immigrants out. 

I hope that's not something else I'm supposed to feel guilty about.....because I don't.

Don't ask me, I don't feel guilty about anything. I'm just living the life I was given. But if Native Americans consider it their land, I've heard building walls is all the rage for keeping them foreigners out. 

2017-12-06 4:34 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah

Do you consider other national parks to be federal overreach, or only Bears Ears and Escalante because they were recently added? Should we stop protecting Grand Canyon? 

2017-12-06 5:05 PM
in reply to: trijamie

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
Originally posted by trijamie

Do you consider other national parks to be federal overreach, or only Bears Ears and Escalante because they were recently added? Should we stop protecting Grand Canyon? 




Of course not. The issue here was the took too much land to protect the ‘national treasure’. We didn’t need to take the entire state of Wyoming to protect Yellowstone.

Do a search of federal lands in Utah and you might see the issue.

The land grab war simply federal overreach. I don’t want the feds taking any more of my state either. The government land that the state of Alabama owns is controlled by the state and my state reps control it. WTH is the point in having state governments if the bureaucrats in Washington, who know nothing about the land control all public lands. We have many state parks in my area and the local people use them most and help maintain them and keep them clean thru community efforts. They are beautiful and cared for and protected. The difference is they are controlled by us not the fed.

Maybe we don’t want loaded guns in our state parks if the border a school or subdivision? If our state park was national park guns would be allowed. Several years ago (2010) the federal gov passed a law saying guns are allowed in national parks. The local people are best suited to govern public lands. All Trump did was to return control of government land to the state government.

The notion the the “federal government” knows Best sticks in my craw. Don’t even get me started with education. Should not be a Dept of Education! Each state should govern their own education system with input from local school board and local PTAs.


2017-12-06 5:18 PM
in reply to: Bob Loblaw

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw

The native Americans should build a wall around their lands to keep immigrants out. 




They tried to keep the immigrants out but the were concurred....just as the Romans conquered most of Europe....and the Spanish conquered the Incas and the Mayans...and the Norseman from Germania conquered Scandinavia...and Ganghis Khan conquered all of Mongolia.

Hitler, Muesulinni and Tojo tried to conquer the entire world....it was only because the rest of the world united against them did they fail. Had the American Indian united, they would not have been conquered but there were hundreds of tribes and they.....did not get along to say the least.
2017-12-07 6:29 AM
in reply to: #5232085

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
Interesting graphic showing how monument designation has ramped up over the past few presidents. Obama wasn’t the first but he is the largest. While not the ENTIRE story it is definitely a big part of it. What isn’t shown is the reason for the designation.

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/59dbc52492406c35008b50f8-1...
2017-12-07 12:23 PM
in reply to: crowny2

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah
I'd like to see a graphic on the amount of lobbying to access mineral rights on those lands.
2017-12-07 1:16 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Trump Shrinks Federal Monuments In Utah

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Stacers

It's baffling to me that you are seemingly cackling with glee as our government casts aside important public lands. It's not about power or politics to me (state or federal, conservative or liberal), but about conserving our national treasures. Once they're gone, they're gone. 

Not sure if you've ever been to Bear's Ears, but it's an amazing place with a lot of historical significance. It will be sad to see it taken over for corporate interests. I don't care how it became or who did it. It's not about reversing everything Obama did, it's about an important piece of our country's character.

It is STILL public land but is now under the control of the state instead of the feds. The Federal government has no business taking 1,351,849 acres from the state of Utah.....the antiquities law says they can only take "as much as is necessary to preserve the antiquity" or words to that effect. Think about this.....a section is 1 mile x 1 mile and is made up of 640 acres. 1,351,849 acres / 640 acres/sqmi = 2,112 square miles Assume the area is 20 miles wide.....that would make it over 100 miles long. The other monument was 1.9 million acres! 20 miles wide by 148 mile long. This is land that belongs to Utah not the federal government....but it is STILL public land. And what I am 'gleeful' about is Trump is dialing back federal overreach! These lands were taken from the state by the Federal government under the antiquities act (or something like that) but they took too much. Why? Because they could! Kings Obama and King Clinton didn't care about states' rights! Evidently Trump does!

Let's be honest here: if Obama had trimmed down the size of the federal lands, Trump would've rolled THAT back and claimed he was doing the great job of protecting national treasures for all Americans.

He's all about pandering to his base, and contradicting anything Obama did is easy pickings.  I don't think he has even an inkling of what federalism means, state vs. federal law, eminent domain, etc.

I think you're kind of right, but more along the lines of he's basically removing all the executive order actions the President did the last 8 years.  I'm sure there's probably a few he agrees with that he'll leave in place, but hard to say.

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