General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Am I aero??? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2006-09-15 4:41 PM

User image

Extreme Veteran
452
1001001001002525
Los Angeles
Subject: Am I aero???
I got a custom bike fitting by a specialist. A Triathlete/Trainer/PT.

The bike feels good and I'm extremely comfy in aero position. But when I look at some pictures of myself in aero position, it seems like I'm far from being in aero position = doesn't it defeat the purpose of a Tri bike?

What do you think?









Edited by TriathleteNut 2006-09-15 5:11 PM


2006-09-15 5:20 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Champion
10668
500050005001002525
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
It's all a matter of compromising power and aerodynamics. Jurgen Zack looked like a sail on his Softride, but no one would argue with his bike splits.

If you can do it (as in can your hips/back/etc take it), you could go lower in front and more forward. That might (emphasis on might) get you some more speed. Other things you can do:

* Relax the upper back and let your spine sink down between your shoulder blades.
* move your chin down and forward.
* Put a disk on the back and a H3 or something like a Jet in front.
2006-09-15 5:33 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Member
8

Subject: RE: Am I aero???
Can you move your saddle forward w/o compromising your knee-pedal alignment? Then you could get lower, get closer to the 90-degree arm, etc.

Yay Team Felt! I love my Felt.
2006-09-15 5:44 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
TriathleteNut - 2006-09-15 4:41 PM I got a custom bike fitting by a specialist. A Triathlete/Trainer/PT. The bike feels good and I'm extremely comfy in aero position. But when I look at some pictures of myself in aero position, it seems like I'm far from being in aero position = doesn't it defeat the purpose of a Tri bike? What do you think?   
Based on the pics, I regret to say: you don't seem very aero...
2006-09-15 5:48 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
I've seen much worse, and you probably look a lot like I do on my bike.  But you can probably adapt to a lower position up front (more drop from saddle to arm pads) and get substantially more aero.  Ask the fitter you used if there are adjustments you can make to achieve this.  (Or why they would advise against it if that's the case.)
2006-09-15 5:49 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Subject: RE: Am I aero???

Can I ask a dumb question (not of you Glen but in general)?  Shouldn't the question be more Am I Comfortable and is the position right?   Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the real benefits of being "aero" not really noticed unless you are consistently 20mph + (and not just going downhill with a headwind )

Sure, you could bring your seat forward, raise it a bit, get rid of your spacers and have your back straight as Peter Reid, but if you are uncomfortable, all of that is irrelevant

I'd say if you got a professional fit from someone who knows your current level of training and fitness, ignore the fact that you are not al Sultan "aero" right now.  As your fitness/flexibility/core strength improves (no way you can get a flat back without very good lower back/glute flexibility), your profile will drop.

Then again, I may not know what I am talking about

edit - also - as to whether not being aero defeats the purpose of a tri bike.  Not as I understand it.  Yes, get as aero as you can.  But the real purpose of a tri bike is to move you forward and save your quads for the run.  Just because you may not be "aero" doesn't mean that is not happening.

edit #2   0 hard to tell from the oblique angle, but in pic #3 you look very stretched out, like the aero bar pads could come back something like 6" (or seat forward, or combination)



Edited by ChrisM 2006-09-15 5:52 PM


2006-09-15 5:51 PM
in reply to: #543008

User image

Expert
1207
1000100100
Liberty Lake, WA
Subject: RE: Am I aero???

briderdt - 2006-09-15 2:20 PM It's all a matter of compromising power and aerodynamics. Jurgen Zack looked like a sail on his Softride, but no one would argue with his bike splits.

Yep, Zack proved that a little EPO will beat aero anytime.

2006-09-15 6:00 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Subject: RE: Am I aero???

And to follow up with an example from the same race and photographer   This is Holger Beckmann of the LA tri club, 2d in AG 40-44, qualified for Kona, won Santa Barbara couple weeks ago, 6th fastest LA bike split at 1:01.  He doesn't look particularly "aero" either, but doesn't look like it's affected his time

http://www.asiorders.com/view_user_photo.asp?EVENTID=10728&ID=26572178&FROM=photos&BIB=1615



Edited by ChrisM 2006-09-15 6:01 PM
2006-09-15 7:15 PM
in reply to: #543022

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
ChrisM - 2006-09-15 5:49 PM

Can I ask a dumb question (not of you Glen but in general)? Shouldn't the question be more Am I Comfortable and is the position right? Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the real benefits of being "aero" not really noticed unless you are consistently 20mph + (and not just going downhill with a headwind )

Sure, you could bring your seat forward, raise it a bit, get rid of your spacers and have your back straight as Peter Reid, but if you are uncomfortable, all of that is irrelevant

I'd say if you got a professional fit from someone who knows your current level of training and fitness, ignore the fact that you are not al Sultan "aero" right now. As your fitness/flexibility/core strength improves (no way you can get a flat back without very good lower back/glute flexibility), your profile will drop.

Then again, I may not know what I am talking about

edit - also - as to whether not being aero defeats the purpose of a tri bike. Not as I understand it. Yes, get as aero as you can. But the real purpose of a tri bike is to move you forward and save your quads for the run. Just because you may not be "aero" doesn't mean that is not happening.

edit #2 0 hard to tell from the oblique angle, but in pic #3 you look very stretched out, like the aero bar pads could come back something like 6" (or seat forward, or combination)

A few thoughts: 

You benefit from an aero position if you are fighting wind resistance.  This matters long before 20mph.

You may have to work on your flexiblity to get a better position, but most can do this after some adaptation (don't increase your drop 10cm overnight).

Agree on paragraph 3.

Putting you forward helps to make it easier to get aero by opening up your hip angle (if I've got this right now).  So, yes, a tri/TT bike is to help you achieve this. 

2006-09-15 7:19 PM
in reply to: #543035

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
ChrisM - 2006-09-15 6:00 PM

And to follow up with an example from the same race and photographer This is Holger Beckmann of the LA tri club, 2d in AG 40-44, qualified for Kona, won Santa Barbara couple weeks ago, 6th fastest LA bike split at 1:01. He doesn't look particularly "aero" either, but doesn't look like it's affected his time

http://www.asiorders.com/view_user_photo.asp?EVENTID=10728&ID=26572178&FROM=photos&BIB=1615

Actually, he looks substantially more aero than the OP.  Start at the head for each and tell me otherwise.  I'm pretty sure the OP could get into a position like that with some work--it's not Bjorn-like.

2006-09-15 7:46 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Extreme Veteran
452
1001001001002525
Los Angeles
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
I am indeed comfortable in this position. And I guess it doesn't defeat the purpose if it helps me on the run. If I extend my aerobars more I'll go further away from the 90 degree bend which the bike fitter told me I should be in (for purposes of not putting too much strain or effort on my arms).

The seat was higher about an inch and half higher prior to the fitting. Could the bike be too small? I'm on a 650c x 52 which feels good. I mean, I like the ride, I'm really comfortable and I just want to get the benefits as much as I can. Running is the most important thing out of the saddle, so if it's not getting more 'aero' than that's fine I guess.


2006-09-15 8:51 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Master
1670
10005001002525
Harvard, Illinois
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
Dont' expect to be in the most perfect position right away. You have to give your body some time to adjust to this like JohnnyKay said. Give it some time and then make adjustments.
2006-09-16 12:44 PM
in reply to: #543123

User image

Extreme Veteran
341
10010010025
Niagara Falls, Ont
Subject: RE: Am I aero???

*as he wades into the fray*

I agree with chris on this one. aero is great, but what advantage do you have later on in the race?

also, how tall are you? 650c wheels may be a bit small. was your fitter a "roadie" or a "triguy"? both of my bikes are set up quite differently (comparatively speaking).

2006-09-16 12:51 PM
in reply to: #542980

User image

Subject: RE: Am I aero???
I think Holger looks pretty aero, more than Glenn. His head is lower, his shoulders are further forward so he has a smaller angle at the elbow, and his hips are forward and right over his feet. Also, I think Jorge's position (in his post, above) looks a lot like Holger in terms of position.

In any case, though, I think "extremely comfy" is worth keeping, at least for a while. I suspect your position will change a bit as you get stronger anyway, and that's when you should tweak the fit.
2006-09-16 2:21 PM
in reply to: #543330

User image

Extreme Veteran
452
1001001001002525
Los Angeles
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
kausnfxx - 2006-09-16 10:44 AM

*as he wades into the fray*

I agree with chris on this one. aero is great, but what advantage do you have later on in the race?

also, how tall are you? 650c wheels may be a bit small. was your fitter a "roadie" or a "triguy"? both of my bikes are set up quite differently (comparatively speaking).



I'm 5'5". My fitter was a triguy. He didn't mention that the bike was too small so I'm assuming, based on LBS and my fitter that everything is okay with my size.

My 2nd hand road bike is 700cx52cm and it is a tiny bit too big. The FELT S32 in the picture is 650cx50cm. Feels comfy as mentioned. I should talk to the fitter again and ask. It cost $150 bucks and I wonder if he'd do adjustments.
2006-09-16 4:11 PM
in reply to: #542980

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.


2006-09-16 5:26 PM
in reply to: #542980

Extreme Veteran
427
10010010010025
Shiloh Illinois
Subject: RE: Am I aero???
It looks like you need a shorter stem to get the elbow underneath your shoulder. I would also try to go a little bit lower. You can do that by getting a stem with more drop. A profile H20 115 degree will give some good drop.

Also get picture from the front. It looks like you need to adjust your aerobar pads in. Your elbows look like they are sticking way out. You want your elbows to shield your hips from the front. How far up is your seat and do you have a seatpost on it to get steeper?
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Am I aero??? Rss Feed