General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Getting more aero Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2018-08-05 9:10 PM

New user
35
25
The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: Getting more aero
I'm trying to decide how to go about increasing the drop between my saddle and my aero bars. Currently riding a 56cm tri frame but I think that the best results would come from sizing down to a 54cm frame. This would allow a saddle height that's higher in relation to the aero bar arm rests. Thoughts?

My only other option is to slam the stem (flip and remove the spacers, I think this will only net me another 1-1.5 inches).

Pics below.





Edited by Dill-Ag13 2018-08-05 9:11 PM


2018-08-05 10:06 PM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Champion
7595
50002000500252525
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Getting more aero

I am not a trained fitter, but that frame does not look too big for you.

I would find a trusted fitter and speak with that person.  They cost money, but a lot less than a new frame...

2018-08-05 10:41 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Pro
15124
500050005000100
Subject: RE: Getting more aero

Can't tell from that pic if you can raise the seat or not.....you have plenty of seat stem for sure, not sure if you have plenty of leg or not, based on that pic.

Go get a proper fit......I don't know if you need a smaller frame or not, from that single picture, but it appears there is plenty to work with there.



Edited by Left Brain 2018-08-05 10:44 PM
2018-08-06 6:05 AM
in reply to: #5247493

New user
35
25
The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Thank you guys. I meant to state in the original post that I have been fitted. The bike fits well and I have zero discomfort over the past few races, long rides and a HIM last fall.
2018-08-06 7:29 AM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Champion
10625
5000500050010025
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: Getting more aero

Fitting advice from a single still picture (and not with the foot at the bottom of the pedal stroke) given by people who have never seen you ride is worth every dollar you paid for it. In general.

With that said, I'll give my impressions from what I see here.

* Hard to judge just what your knee angle would look like at the bottom of the pedal stroke, but it seems like it might be just a bit closed up. My guess is that you're not riding (in this picture) on the same point on the saddle as when you were fitted, and likely forward of that point. Adamo saddles tend to promote this, but it's a common thing. So... you might be able to raise the saddle.

* Dropping the front end 1"-1.5" is A LOT. It's a game of millimeters. You might be able to get there, but don't do it all at once.  5mm at a time is plenty, see how it works, then try a little more. BUT... there are other things going on as well.

* I'd recommend against sizing the frame down unless you can keep the same, or slightly longer, reach. your body is a bit crowded, back arched. Maybe that's a product of sitting forward on the saddle, maybe it's a hip flexibility issue, maybe it's something else. Sizing down the frame means (generally) a shorter reach, so to compensate you'd be on a significantly longer stem, putting even more weight on the front wheel.

* Arm position relative to your torso is good, pad position on elbows is good, hands look uncomfortable to me (but that's just me). So with those things in order, and the crowded body, it seems like you need more reach anyway.

* Head position looks a bit high, but the helmet isn't doing any favors there either. It might be a function of your elbows being close together (can't tell anything about that from the pic), which is closing up the chest and not allowing the shoulders to relax, but if you can "turtle" your head out (think chin down and forward), let your spine sink down between the shoulder blades, you can gain a lot. This is hard to do, especially with an arched back and very narrow elbows. In reality, most people don't gain much of anything by getting the elbows narrower than any of the body parts behind them (thighs, hips, which ever is behind). An aero helmet will net some gains as well.

Just my worthless observations.

2018-08-06 7:29 AM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Extreme Veteran
5304
5000100100100
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Out of curiosity, how long are your cranks ?

A picture with your foot at the bottom of the pedal stroke and/or top will give a better indication of being able to go higher

But you have potential for aero gains.


2018-08-06 8:39 AM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Pro
15124
500050005000100
Subject: RE: Getting more aero

Originally posted by Dill-Ag13 Thank you guys. I meant to state in the original post that I have been fitted. The bike fits well and I have zero discomfort over the past few races, long rides and a HIM last fall.

Oh.....you look comfortable......but you said aero.

2018-08-06 11:23 AM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13


25
25
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Frame doesn't look too big just from eye ball assessment. Can't tell how many spacers you have under the stem but that is the easiest place to start even before flipping the stem. Then I would look at a new helmet, ditch the round bottle for an aero bottle or just move the round to behind the seat.
2018-08-06 11:30 AM
in reply to: 0

New user
35
25
The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Thank you guys for the feedback. My hands are definitely uncomfortable, working on sorting that out. I have two spacers underneath the stem.

I think the answer I'm getting here is to go get a fit from someone else. See pics below, these are as close to 6 o'clock as I had taken of me.





Edited by Dill-Ag13 2018-08-06 11:32 AM
2018-08-06 11:35 AM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Extreme Veteran
5304
5000100100100
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Originally posted by Dill-Ag13

Thank you guys for the feedback. My hands are definitely uncomfortable, working on sorting that out. I have two spacers underneath the stem.

I think the answer I'm getting here is to go get a fit from someone else. See pics below, these are as close to 6 o'clock as I had taken of me.


Your wrists are too flexed.

What is your crank length ?

2018-08-06 11:37 AM
in reply to: marcag

New user
35
25
The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
They are, I replaced the elbow rests a couple of weeks ago and I think I installed these too high.

Crank arms are 175, need closer to 170 (right?) but haven't ponied up for the replacement stages, replacement spindle yet. Should that be a higher priority? I'm 5'10.


2018-08-06 11:41 AM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Extreme Veteran
5304
5000100100100
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Originally posted by Dill-Ag13

They are, I replaced the elbow rests a couple of weeks ago and I think I installed these too high.

Crank arms are 175, need closer to 170 (right?) but haven't ponied up for the replacement stages, replacement spindle yet. Should that be a higher priority? I'm 5'10.


Definitely something to look at. It was the first thing I noticed which is why I asked.
Put 165s and you can raise your seat 1cm without impacting your maximum knee angle (6'oclock). And you will open up your closed hip angle (12 o'clock) probably facilitating going lower in front.
2018-08-06 11:44 AM
in reply to: marcag

New user
35
25
The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
165 huh? Any literature I can read on how to size crank arms for a tri bike?
2018-08-06 12:11 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Extreme Veteran
5304
5000100100100
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Originally posted by Dill-Ag13

165 huh? Any literature I can read on how to size crank arms for a tri bike?


There is a ton of misinformation out there on crank length. Crank length is a parameter used by a good fitter. That being said your fitter probably did what he could with those cranks. Also many fitters are more from a road background and playing with crank length is not in their way of doing things.

What I have seen to date is very few people regret going shorter, especially amateurs. Ask Lionel Sanders who suggested him to go 165 :-)

Nobody rides 175 on a TT bike anymore.

Edited by marcag 2018-08-06 12:13 PM
2018-08-06 5:37 PM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Champion
7595
50002000500252525
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Getting more aero

Originally posted by Dill-Ag13 I replaced the elbow rests a couple of weeks ago and I think I installed these too high. 

Hrm.  Not a great thing to do after the fit.  ;-)  It certainly does look like there's room for them to go down.  You do look somewhat upright.

Fitters can have many different goals in mind for you, and you need to communicate with them.  If being aero is very important to you, and you are willing to work for it, communicate that to your fitter.  Otherwise he or she might focus on other things.  Of course, in the end it is to some extent a balancing act between different considerations (aero, mechanical advantage, being able to run off the bike, comfort, etc.), and you need to communicate with the fitter about the relative importance of these things for you.

Also -- and just checking! -- you are using a fitter with experience fitting triathletes, right?  Straight-up cyclists, even time-trial riders, aren't the same.  (For example, they don't have to get off the bike and run.)

2018-08-06 9:49 PM
in reply to: #5247493

New user
35
25
The Woodlands, Texas
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Thanks for the input. The fit was done a little over a year ago when I was really green. My ‘just finish’ goals aren’t just that anymore.

I’m using a cycling studio fitter in a relatively Tri-centric community. He cane highly regarded. Considering going back to him with my new goals.


2018-08-06 10:57 PM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Champion
7595
50002000500252525
Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: Getting more aero

That sounds like a wise choice.  Good luck!

2018-08-07 5:19 AM
in reply to: Dill-Ag13

User image

Champion
7136
5000200010025
Knoxville area
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
leave your crank alone (currently)

longer stem, with a little negative rise on it. Angle those clip on's up a couple of degrees.

Take a video then



2018-08-07 3:44 PM
in reply to: marcag

User image


360
1001001002525
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: Getting more aero
Originally posted by marcag
Nobody rides 175 on a TT bike anymore.


Isn't Tony Martin still on 175s? And Seb Kienle?
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Getting more aero Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

Strava: Time Getting Cut Off workouts?

Started by TheCrownsOwn
Views: 331 Posts: 1

2018-07-30 11:41 AM TheCrownsOwn

getting used to aero bars

Started by MuscleMomma
Views: 566 Posts: 7

2018-07-23 8:17 AM jhaack39

Value of an aero bike if you're not aero.

Started by Porfirio
Views: 883 Posts: 13

2018-07-25 9:44 AM brucemorgan

Work Getting In The Way

Started by mav_9
Views: 564 Posts: 4

2017-10-01 12:23 PM yazmaster

Right hand pinkie gets numb while swimming

Started by kcgolf
Views: 3202 Posts: 13

2018-07-18 1:21 PM katherinel