General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Confusion with rate of fatigue Rss Feed  
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2018-08-23 9:39 PM


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Subject: Confusion with rate of fatigue
Ok veteran triathletes and such -

As a newbie (my first race - this is either my second or third first race), I'm running into kind of a weird wall. I started on an 8 week training plan to ramp me up and into race day. Swimming is swimming - I am a seasoned swimmer (not racer) so it's more about getting in my groove, building the race shape, and not letting adrenaline take over - less about technique (for me). The issue I'm having is a combination bike/run fatigue problem.

When I ride the bike, my legs give out waaaay before my lungs. If I'm on any kind of climb or if I ride for any length of time - even if I'm on my peloton - my legs get wrecked pretty quick - and I think the kind of thing I'm talking about is important. My legs feel heavy and firey, but not tired. Like if someone threw a bucket of water on my quads I'd be fine.

When I run, opposite problem. I ran a mile after a weightlifting workout today at what I anticipate will be faster-than-race pace (7.5mph, treadmill). I am sucking air within a quarter mile (I managed to run the whole thing without adjusting pace) but my legs feel fine.

I'm not sure why this is happening, if it's common, or what. I'm curious to know if this has happened to anyone else and if there's some common cause?

Thanks for any tips/tricks/thoughts.
LaS


2018-08-24 3:37 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue

Originally posted by LiftAndShoot

Ok veteran triathletes and such -

As a newbie (my first race - this is either my second or third first race), I'm running into kind of a weird wall. I started on an 8 week training plan to ramp me up and into race day. Swimming is swimming - I am a seasoned swimmer (not racer) so it's more about getting in my groove, building the race shape, and not letting adrenaline take over - less about technique (for me). The issue I'm having is a combination bike/run fatigue problem.

When I ride the bike, my legs give out waaaay before my lungs. If I'm on any kind of climb or if I ride for any length of time - even if I'm on my peloton - my legs get wrecked pretty quick - and I think the kind of thing I'm talking about is important. My legs feel heavy and firey, but not tired. Like if someone threw a bucket of water on my quads I'd be fine.

When I run, opposite problem. I ran a mile after a weightlifting workout today at what I anticipate will be faster-than-race pace (7.5mph, treadmill). I am sucking air within a quarter mile (I managed to run the whole thing without adjusting pace) but my legs feel fine.

I'm not sure why this is happening, if it's common, or what. I'm curious to know if this has happened to anyone else and if there's some common cause?

Thanks for any tips/tricks/thoughts.

LaS

There's not a lot here to go on - i.e. your training volume, etc.  That said, you made a couple of comments that may be instructive.

Both of the comments I put in bold above imply to me you may be "going to hard" in training.  That leads to a question - how are you setting your training paces?  More specifically, have you determined your training zones for both running and cycling?  Ideally you'll be using Heart Rate (HR) for the run and power for the bike, although you can use HR on the bike also if you don't have a power-meter.

Here's a great article to help you determine your training zones - https://beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=633

Once you've determined your training zones, as a "newbie" you'll want to be spending the bulk of your training time in zone 2.  That will likely feel slow if you've been running at race pace.  However, triathlon is an aerobic sport.  To get faster you need to develop your aerobic energy pathway and your bodies ability to utilize fat for fuel.  You do that with zone 2 training.

Hope that helps.

 

2018-08-24 9:25 AM
in reply to: LiftAndShoot

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Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue
How far into the plan are you?
First few weeks of an organized plan and you may be feeling normal fatigue that comes with a structured plan. Typically newer triathletes just kind of go for a run or bike and don't really put much though into easy, hard, etc.

I assume your plan calls out effort for each workout? It should be smartly planned to cycle you through higher loads (either volume or intensity or both) and then a transition in there somewhere to allow recovery and adaptation.

If the plan just ramps up each week for 8 weeks and you are week 6, ya, you will fill pretty burnt out.
2018-08-24 11:51 AM
in reply to: TriJayhawkRyan

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Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue
It sounds like this is less a case of cumulative fatigue than just going too fast/hard for current fitness on the bike and run. For a beginner, most of your training should be in the "conversational" zone. That means you could talk with someone while biking/jogging without undue effort. You need to build endurance (at least enough to comfortably finish the race distance and then some) before starting to worry about increasing speed. Cycling is more strength based and so for many people the legs will be the first to "go". (I've been in the sport almost a decade and that is still true for me, at least.) Running probably makes the highest cardio demands, so many people will find themselves sucking air, especially if it's hot and/or polluted, when they pace too ambitiously. Slow down and I think things will go better!
2018-08-26 5:23 PM
in reply to: LiftAndShoot


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Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue
Originally posted by LiftAndShoot

Ok veteran triathletes and such -

As a newbie (my first race - this is either my second or third first race), I'm running into kind of a weird wall. I started on an 8 week training plan to ramp me up and into race day. Swimming is swimming - I am a seasoned swimmer (not racer) so it's more about getting in my groove, building the race shape, and not letting adrenaline take over - less about technique (for me). The issue I'm having is a combination bike/run fatigue problem.

When I ride the bike, my legs give out waaaay before my lungs. If I'm on any kind of climb or if I ride for any length of time - even if I'm on my peloton - my legs get wrecked pretty quick - and I think the kind of thing I'm talking about is important. My legs feel heavy and firey, but not tired. Like if someone threw a bucket of water on my quads I'd be fine.

When I run, opposite problem. I ran a mile after a weightlifting workout today at what I anticipate will be faster-than-race pace (7.5mph, treadmill). I am sucking air within a quarter mile (I managed to run the whole thing without adjusting pace) but my legs feel fine.

I'm not sure why this is happening, if it's common, or what. I'm curious to know if this has happened to anyone else and if there's some common cause?

Thanks for any tips/tricks/thoughts.
LaS


One of two things cycling wise. Either you're aerobic fitness is ahead of your legs (that's common) or you're grinding a huge gear rather than spinning (that's common too). The first issue isn't a problem, just keep training. The second one is a quick fix, spin faster.

Running. . . yeah. . . that's pretty much been my experience up until we're talking about long distances (15mi +) where muscular endurance becomes more a factor.
2018-08-26 6:35 PM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue
Yep, forgot about resistance. With stationaries and some spin bikes (long ago I used to train solely on those), it is possible to crank resistance up to really ridiculous levels that are simply not what most people would/should do in a triathlon and probably more than most road or tri bike gearing would offer. Increasing cadence and decreasing resistance will transfer more of the load to your cardio system if that is the problem. Everyone's ideal cadence/resistance depends on a lot of things--body size, strength, course if riding outdoors--but a general rule of thumb is in the range of 80-90 RPM. If there is some kind of power/watt meter on the bike you can experiment to see what combo of cadence and resistance seems to give you the most power for the least effort/lowest heart rate.


2018-08-26 6:35 PM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue
Yep, forgot about resistance. With stationaries and some spin bikes (long ago I used to train solely on those), it is possible to crank resistance up to really ridiculous levels that are simply not what most people would/should do in a triathlon and probably more than most road or tri bike gearing would offer. Increasing cadence and decreasing resistance will transfer more of the load to your cardio system if that is the problem. Everyone's ideal cadence/resistance depends on a lot of things--body size, strength, course if riding outdoors--but a general rule of thumb is in the range of 80-90 RPM. If there is some kind of power/watt meter on the bike you can experiment to see what combo of cadence and resistance seems to give you the most power for the least effort/lowest heart rate.
2018-08-27 6:27 PM
in reply to: LiftAndShoot

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Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue

Your legs are getting wrecked on the bike because you're pushing more resistance than you have trained up to.  That's not necessarily a bad thing.  In general, you can get away with biking and swimming pretty hard since they don't punish the body like running does.  Running hard all the time will lead to excessive fatigue and higher injury risk.  Running after lifting weights probably makes the effort tougher too.

In general, I would:

Swim & bike moderate to hard most of the time and easy some of the time.  I would do 30-90 minutes of interval type work on the bike a couple times a week and get some moderately paced miles in on the weekend...anywhere from 20-60 depending on your appetite.  The longer ride on the weekend will build endurance while the interval work during the week will build power.

Run easy most of the time (80% or more until you're over 20-25 miles/week).  Running easy means conversational pace.  You need the easy miles to build endurance before you add in any speed work.  Btw, you will get faster if you do nothing more than a) run often...5-6 times a week and b) only run easy.  As a bonus, running easy keeps the fatigue level relatively low so you can execute your other workouts.

You didn't say anything about your weight.  If you're a bit bigger from the weight lifting it's going to negatively affect your climbing (bike) and running speed. 

 

 

2018-08-30 9:24 AM
in reply to: JoelO


14

Subject: RE: Confusion with rate of fatigue
Hey gang -

Really appreciate all the responses. I think y'all are on to something - obviously - with doing too much too fast. I tend to have the 'redline all the time' mentality, which clearly doesn't serve me well in the endurance world. I think that mentality coupled with my inability to generate what I would call 'veteran power' is frustrating. I know I have no business thinking that I can generate the speed or wattage or distance that people who are trained for these disciplines can - but it's hard to disassociate myself from that idea.
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