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2020-02-27 6:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by alicefoeller
Originally posted by cdban66

Originally posted by alicefoeller Yes you have been doing a ton of troubleshooting for us. I'm not challenging that it should work right. But a major feature of BT is that you compared your Planned Training with your Actual Training. If my Planned Training includes a 45 minute swim set that has 8 minutes total of rest in between laps, and I end up with a 37-minute Actual Training, that shows a deficit against my Planned Training, which means basically that I didn't do all of my training. For Strength, Eric is having trouble identifying the "endpoints" at BT that match up with how it comes in. Apparently there are two places it could go - the Strength category, or the Strength activity within the Sport category. We are working hard on this and it's frustrating for everyone that it's not smooth. It's just database mapping, and I'm not sure why it's so hard.

Thank you for your quick reply, and I do have to agree that data mapping shouldn't be this challenging. Yet in my 20 years of doing this sort of work, I can state that this can often be a HUGE hurdle. I guess that if your plans show swim sets including rest time, then that should be how you show time. I believe that is outside of the norm. However I haven't had a coach in forever and wouldn't know a swim workout if I was standing next to the pool and it knocked me into the water   I guess the only argument I could make is that I would be concerned with being outside of the standard that other tracking systems use, as BT is at this point with bike imports. 

At Chris - Clarify how we are outside the standard with bike imports. I'm not clear on that. For the swim, we do track in yards (or meters) and also in time. So for this graph below/attached, if I did all of my workouts, the volume graph should match the bars. (Obviously I'm not training enough!) But if my planned swim were 40 minutes, and it only counted my moving time, I'd show up at a deficit. Which is something I don't want when I'm in super training mode and making sure I run back and forth in the driveway for 45 seconds in order not to cut anything short.

My experience, up until now, has been that Elapsed time is imported, not moving time. I rode on Feb 15th and Strava shows 1:47.  Neostrack and Training peaks are attached. BT shows that I rode for 2:08:16. NeosTrack, which would be the originating system shows differently. I did notice that you are now using moving time, so I'll take another look in the morning, after my upload occurs.



Edited by cdban66 2020-02-27 7:00 PM




(neostrack15.jpg)



(TrainingPeaks15.jpg)



(Strava15.jpg)



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2020-02-28 5:59 AM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by alicefoeller Janyne, Yeah I know. If it doesn't work, it's going to be too much of a pain. We haven't changed anything on our end in the past week, so I don't know why your run would have imported as moving time and then as elapsed time. Eric said you switched from sending it through Garmin > FitnessSyncer > BT and starting sending it Garmin > Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT. Does that sound right?

Correct.  Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT. My run on Saturday was imported with Strava as the source and it came in normally. My run on Tuesday came in using elapsed time.

On Monday, Eric said, "For elapsed time vs moving time, this appears to be how BT handles this" regarding a swim import (BTW, the three coaches that I have worked with all care about the distance and time time per set and could care less about the elapsed time).  My thought is that Eric is using elapsed time for all things now.  Since I've been on the trainer, I have not noticed what the situation is on the bike.  I'm running again today.

Confirmed. Runs are importing as elapsed time and not moving time.  The import path was Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT

I'm attaching screenshots from Strava and BT.  (ETA No idea why the time/distance aren't an exact match.)



Edited by jmkizer 2020-02-28 6:00 AM




(Screen Shot 2020-02-28 at 6.58.23 AM.png)



(Screen Shot 2020-02-28 at 6.59.32 AM.png)



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Screen Shot 2020-02-28 at 6.58.23 AM.png (93KB - 0 downloads)
Screen Shot 2020-02-28 at 6.59.32 AM.png (7KB - 0 downloads)
2020-02-28 12:49 PM
in reply to: cdban66

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Master
6673
500010005001002525
Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by cdban66

Originally posted by alicefoeller
Originally posted by cdban66

Originally posted by alicefoeller Yes you have been doing a ton of troubleshooting for us. I'm not challenging that it should work right. But a major feature of BT is that you compared your Planned Training with your Actual Training. If my Planned Training includes a 45 minute swim set that has 8 minutes total of rest in between laps, and I end up with a 37-minute Actual Training, that shows a deficit against my Planned Training, which means basically that I didn't do all of my training. For Strength, Eric is having trouble identifying the "endpoints" at BT that match up with how it comes in. Apparently there are two places it could go - the Strength category, or the Strength activity within the Sport category. We are working hard on this and it's frustrating for everyone that it's not smooth. It's just database mapping, and I'm not sure why it's so hard.

Thank you for your quick reply, and I do have to agree that data mapping shouldn't be this challenging. Yet in my 20 years of doing this sort of work, I can state that this can often be a HUGE hurdle. I guess that if your plans show swim sets including rest time, then that should be how you show time. I believe that is outside of the norm. However I haven't had a coach in forever and wouldn't know a swim workout if I was standing next to the pool and it knocked me into the water   I guess the only argument I could make is that I would be concerned with being outside of the standard that other tracking systems use, as BT is at this point with bike imports. 

At Chris - Clarify how we are outside the standard with bike imports. I'm not clear on that. For the swim, we do track in yards (or meters) and also in time. So for this graph below/attached, if I did all of my workouts, the volume graph should match the bars. (Obviously I'm not training enough!) But if my planned swim were 40 minutes, and it only counted my moving time, I'd show up at a deficit. Which is something I don't want when I'm in super training mode and making sure I run back and forth in the driveway for 45 seconds in order not to cut anything short.

My experience, up until now, has been that Elapsed time is imported, not moving time. I rode on Feb 15th and Strava shows 1:47.  Neostrack and Training peaks are attached. BT shows that I rode for 2:08:16. NeosTrack, which would be the originating system shows differently. I did notice that you are now using moving time, so I'll take another look in the morning, after my upload occurs.

I just checked and BT shows a different time period.

2020-02-28 1:30 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
8150
5000200010001002525
Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by alicefoeller Janyne, Yeah I know. If it doesn't work, it's going to be too much of a pain. We haven't changed anything on our end in the past week, so I don't know why your run would have imported as moving time and then as elapsed time. Eric said you switched from sending it through Garmin > FitnessSyncer > BT and starting sending it Garmin > Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT. Does that sound right?

Correct.  Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT. My run on Saturday was imported with Strava as the source and it came in normally. My run on Tuesday came in using elapsed time.

On Monday, Eric said, "For elapsed time vs moving time, this appears to be how BT handles this" regarding a swim import (BTW, the three coaches that I have worked with all care about the distance and time time per set and could care less about the elapsed time).  My thought is that Eric is using elapsed time for all things now.  Since I've been on the trainer, I have not noticed what the situation is on the bike.  I'm running again today.

Confirmed. Runs are importing as elapsed time and not moving time.  The import path was Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT

I'm attaching screenshots from Strava and BT.  (ETA No idea why the time/distance aren't an exact match.)

Please let me know when it's OK for me to update this in my training log.

2020-02-29 7:51 AM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
8150
5000200010001002525
Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by jmkizer

Originally posted by alicefoeller Janyne, Yeah I know. If it doesn't work, it's going to be too much of a pain. We haven't changed anything on our end in the past week, so I don't know why your run would have imported as moving time and then as elapsed time. Eric said you switched from sending it through Garmin > FitnessSyncer > BT and starting sending it Garmin > Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT. Does that sound right?

Correct.  Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT. My run on Saturday was imported with Strava as the source and it came in normally. My run on Tuesday came in using elapsed time.

On Monday, Eric said, "For elapsed time vs moving time, this appears to be how BT handles this" regarding a swim import (BTW, the three coaches that I have worked with all care about the distance and time time per set and could care less about the elapsed time).  My thought is that Eric is using elapsed time for all things now.  Since I've been on the trainer, I have not noticed what the situation is on the bike.  I'm running again today.

Confirmed. Runs are importing as elapsed time and not moving time.  The import path was Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT

I'm attaching screenshots from Strava and BT.  (ETA No idea why the time/distance aren't an exact match.)

Please let me know when it's OK for me to update this in my training log.

I'm also seeing this behavior for bike rides. Elapsed time is being imported rather than moving time. 

Again, please let me know when it is OK for me to update my training lot.





(Screen Shot 2020-02-29 at 8.50.25 AM.png)



(Screen Shot 2020-02-29 at 8.53.32 AM.png)



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Screen Shot 2020-02-29 at 8.50.25 AM.png (11KB - 0 downloads)
Screen Shot 2020-02-29 at 8.53.32 AM.png (144KB - 0 downloads)
2020-03-01 1:22 PM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
6673
500010005001002525
Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

I have embedded my Strava activities in my log for this week, in an effort to show the differences. I believe something wacky happened on Saturday. It almost looks like there are calculations of some sort going on. BT shows elapsed time, double the distance and a ton of calories burned. 869 calories are shown on Strava and Fitness Syncer, 2519 are shown "From Activities" on BT. Calorie burn is off on the other two this week, one way over, the other showing "0". The numbers in FS are what I see in Strava.



2020-03-04 6:45 AM
in reply to: cdban66

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Master
8150
5000200010001002525
Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

This is the current status of the FitnessSyncer import as I see it:

The good

  • imports from Strava!
  • imports from The Sufferfest and Zwift via both Strava and Garmin Connect
  • imports yoga as sports/yoga (awesome to not have to change it)

The bad

  • swim data is importing incorrect distance from Strava
  • somtimes it just takes a long time.  If I finish a ride at 6am, it should be on BT well before 10am
  • mapping of no SBR activities. Yoga comes in great from The Sufferfest but if I do a strength set and record it on my Garmin watch, it comes in as either Sports/Strength or Sports/Weights depending on if I import into FitnessSyncer from Garmin or from Strava.  Personally, I find Sports/Strength to be acceptable. I think that since BT has a Strength data field, though, the most correct answer is that it should go there.  I'm not good with it coming in inconsistently (sometimes as one thing and sometimes another). I'd prefer Sports/Strength or Strength.
  • The whole moving time versus elapsed time thing.  I'm really, really not good with elapsed time at all.
    • Yesterday's run came in as elapsed time. BAD
    • Today's swim came in as elapsed time. BAD
    • I'll leave it to Chris to address bikes coming in as moving time or elapsed time since he is doing more outdoor riding than I am at the moment.
2020-03-04 8:02 AM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
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20002525
Columbus, Ohio
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Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!
Thanks - This is really helpful.
I'll communicate this to Matt and Eric.
If anyone has an open ticket with FS, please go ahead and update that, too.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
2020-03-11 6:25 AM
in reply to: 0

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Master
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5000200010001002525
Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by alicefoeller Thanks - This is really helpful. I'll communicate this to Matt and Eric. If anyone has an open ticket with FS, please go ahead and update that, too. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Do you have any additional updates?

As of this morning:

  • Swim distances are continuing to import incorrectly.  1909.45 =! 1950
  • Swim times are importing as elapsed time and not moving time. I don't know if this is by design or not.
  • Run times are importing as elapsed time and not moving time.  Again, is this by design or not?
  • I cannot speak to bike times since I've mostly been on the trainer
  • Strava imports are a double edged sword, they provide more data when importing items originating from Zwift or The Sufferfest but they take for-ev-er (a full day in some cases).
  • Strength continues to import in different ways depending on if the import comes is Garmin > FitnessSyncer > BT or Strava >FitnessSyncer > BT. 


Edited by jmkizer 2020-03-11 6:29 AM
2020-03-11 9:48 AM
in reply to: jmkizer


1

Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!
Hello all. I new member
2020-03-12 9:57 AM
in reply to: alicefoeller

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Master
6673
500010005001002525
Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Alice, this is more of an FYI than anything else. I did a number of rides at the beginning of this week (Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday), that I uploaded when I got back to town late on Tuesday. None of these appear in BT. I'll take a look at Fitness Syncer when I get home this evening. My knee jerk observation on this is that the daily upload piece from FS really seems cludgy at best. I really don't have the time to trouble shoot that, but I'll send an email over to them this evening and see if I get anywhere with them.

Thanks,

CB



2020-03-12 10:04 AM
in reply to: cdban66

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Master
8150
5000200010001002525
Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by cdban66

Alice, this is more of an FYI than anything else. I did a number of rides at the beginning of this week (Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday), that I uploaded when I got back to town late on Tuesday. None of these appear in BT. I'll take a look at Fitness Syncer when I get home this evening. My knee jerk observation on this is that the daily upload piece from FS really seems cludgy at best. I really don't have the time to trouble shoot that, but I'll send an email over to them this evening and see if I get anywhere with them.

Thanks,

CB

I have also noticed that my run distances are somewhat off. There seems to be some kind of rounding error so a run might be 5.01 miles on my watch and 4.99 miles by the time it gets to BT.

As Chris said, it seems like it's a once a day import from Strava at best.

2020-03-13 7:46 AM
in reply to: cdban66

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Master
6673
500010005001002525
Englewood, Florida
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by cdban66

Alice, this is more of an FYI than anything else. I did a number of rides at the beginning of this week (Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday), that I uploaded when I got back to town late on Tuesday. None of these appear in BT. I'll take a look at Fitness Syncer when I get home this evening. My knee jerk observation on this is that the daily upload piece from FS really seems cludgy at best. I really don't have the time to trouble shoot that, but I'll send an email over to them this evening and see if I get anywhere with them.

Thanks,

CB

I didn't get a chance to work on this last night, however all of my rides came in at some point. So that's good. The bad is that the time I spent fixing a flat and speaking with the land manager was included in my workout from Wednesday. So, my 13.3 mph average in Strava looks like 7.8 mph in BT. Luckily for me, BT is not my system of record, so I don't really have an emotional tie to this. Others may. I get that we are going to agree to disagree on this, so I'm simply going to divest myself of the discussion.

2020-03-13 7:48 AM
in reply to: cdban66

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Master
8150
5000200010001002525
Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

Originally posted by cdban66

Originally posted by cdban66

Alice, this is more of an FYI than anything else. I did a number of rides at the beginning of this week (Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday), that I uploaded when I got back to town late on Tuesday. None of these appear in BT. I'll take a look at Fitness Syncer when I get home this evening. My knee jerk observation on this is that the daily upload piece from FS really seems cludgy at best. I really don't have the time to trouble shoot that, but I'll send an email over to them this evening and see if I get anywhere with them.

Thanks,

CB

I didn't get a chance to work on this last night, however all of my rides came in at some point. So that's good. The bad is that the time I spent fixing a flat and speaking with the land manager was included in my workout from Wednesday. So, my 13.3 mph average in Strava looks like 7.8 mph in BT. Luckily for me, BT is not my system of record, so I don't really have an emotional tie to this. Others may. I get that we are going to agree to disagree on this, so I'm simply going to divest myself of the discussion.

Quite honestly, I'm happy to work on this as long as BT and FitnessSyncer are working on it.  After more than a week of silence on these issues, I'm getting the impression that BT has lost interest.

2020-03-16 6:39 AM
in reply to: jmkizer

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Master
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Raleigh, NC area
Subject: RE: Fitness Syncer now active for BT users!

I'm sure that you have bigger fish to fry.  I'd be happy to continue testing when you have the time to support that effort. I'm going back to Garmin import until then.

Here's a summary of my findings for the Strava > FitnessSyncer > BT piece of the puzzle

Outdoor run

  • Distance imports with rouding error (for example, Garmin will report 5.01 and BT will report a distance of 4.99)
  • Time is incorrect.  Imports elapsed time rather than moving time

Outdoor ride

  • Time is incorrect.  Imports elapsed time rather than moving time
  • File size issue prevented additional imports for testing

Yoga

  • works great! Imports The Sufferfest yoga workouts as sports/yoga.  Perfect!

Strength (recorded on Garmin watch)

  • Imports as Sports/Weights rather than as Strength
  • Sidenote: with Garmin > FitnessSyncer > BT it imports as Sports/Strength rather than Strength.  I found this to be more acceptable

Indoor rides

  • Works well.  Imports time, distance, power.  Since moving time and elapsed time are virtually the same for indoor rides, that is a non issue.  I like that the Strava sync imports power.

Additional note: Strava sync is data rich but very slow.

Again, please let me know when you are interested in supporting a testing effort. I think that this could be a nice addition for BT.

 

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