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2020-12-06 12:35 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by feh
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
I remain convinced there was plenty of fraud but shame on republicans for being unable to stop it.

Plenty is a relative term. There will always be some.

But do you think Biden won ?

Seriously, why do you waste your time interacting w/ Trump supporters?



Cause you can learn from someone with a different opinion than yours.

If you can't interact with someone with a different opinion than yours, you're going to have to live in a pretty small world.





Amen brother. See, even you and I occasionally agree. :-)


2020-12-06 12:53 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio
I remain convinced there was plenty of fraud but shame on republicans for being unable to stop it.


Plenty is a relative term. There will always be some.

But do you think Biden won ?


I do not.


This is what I find so intriguing of the US.

For almost a month now, they have been screaming fraud.
Case after case (45 in total) go in front of judges. Not one case had valid evidence .
It was thrown out by mostly Republican judges.
A republican AG says Biden won. He is accused of belonging to the deep state.
Republican governors, secretary of states....all say there was no cheating.

Yet a HUGE number of people don't believe it. A huge number.

That is the part that intrigues me. It doesn't bother me if Trump won or lost.

What interests me is that despite overwhelming evidence, you and a WHOLE LOT of people don't believe it. And these are not dumb people.

I can show you data on Climate change, disease.....people won't believe it.

People have a tendency to push back when things don't align with their beliefs, but the USA is next level. And as the most influential country in the world that has huge consequences on the rest of the world.

Very intriguing




You are right. We are not ignorant hicks. I’ve got a degree in Electrical Engineering and when I look at inconclusive climate data I remain skeptical. I’ve see zero evidence that climate change is caused by man. The climate has been and will continue to change from natural causes. Even the top climate alarmist can’t quantify what percentage man has had on climate change. They won’t even venture a guess? Why? Because there is no science to support an estimate.

RE election fraud. Hundreds of people have signed affidavits under penalty of being charged with a felony that they witnessed fraud. You say there is fraud in every election. This is true. But it is also true that it is possible that this election, given the vile hatred of Trump that there might have been massive fraud. There is also a lot of analytical data that suggest something is amiss even if it can’t be proven. If you and I are playing poker and I get 3 royal flushes on the same night you would rightly suspect I was cheating...even if you don’t know how or have proof or evidence that I cheated.

2020-12-06 2:16 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Cause you can learn from someone with a different opinion than yours.

If you can't interact with someone with a different opinion than yours, you're going to have to live in a pretty small world.





As you note above, these people say up is down, black is white. They are impervious to reason.

Interacting w/ such people is a waste of time.
2020-12-06 3:03 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio
I remain convinced there was plenty of fraud but shame on republicans for being unable to stop it.


Plenty is a relative term. There will always be some.

But do you think Biden won ?


I do not.


This is what I find so intriguing of the US.

For almost a month now, they have been screaming fraud.
Case after case (45 in total) go in front of judges. Not one case had valid evidence .
It was thrown out by mostly Republican judges.
A republican AG says Biden won. He is accused of belonging to the deep state.
Republican governors, secretary of states....all say there was no cheating.

Yet a HUGE number of people don't believe it. A huge number.

That is the part that intrigues me. It doesn't bother me if Trump won or lost.

What interests me is that despite overwhelming evidence, you and a WHOLE LOT of people don't believe it. And these are not dumb people.

I can show you data on Climate change, disease.....people won't believe it.

People have a tendency to push back when things don't align with their beliefs, but the USA is next level. And as the most influential country in the world that has huge consequences on the rest of the world.

Very intriguing




This isn't just a problem with republicans, democrats here suffer from the same problems (though my biased view feels it's only the more extreme of the left where as it affects a MUCH wider population of the right). Group identity is alive and more prominent than ever, alternative facts and ideological driven ideas are free game these days.

The parallels of credibility given/not given between Rog's two examples are a telling reality of this. If the intelligent can't make the distinction or see the true motivation behind a narrative, what hope do the rest have?
2020-12-06 3:05 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by Rogillio

RE election fraud. Hundreds of people have signed affidavits under penalty of being charged with a felony that they witnessed fraud. You say there is fraud in every election. This is true. But it is also true that it is possible that this election, given the vile hatred of Trump that there might have been massive fraud. There is also a lot of analytical data that suggest something is amiss even if it can’t be proven. If you and I are playing poker and I get 3 royal flushes on the same night you would rightly suspect I was cheating...even if you don’t know how or have proof or evidence that I cheated.



The problem with a lot of the "evidence" is that it's always superficially presented by one side with no reply. Rudy and Sydney have been saying for a month "we have tons of evidence". "We have all these analytics". Where is it all ? The fact it's these clowns presenting says a lot. You listen to the guy on the right "bla bla bla". Yep makes sense. But when someone then explains the other side you say "yep that makes sense"

The only people getting the true picture are judges and the justice dept. And they are throwing it out. The fact people don't have confidence in those institutions is a huge problem.
2020-12-06 4:56 PM
in reply to: Synon

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by Synon
though my biased view feels it's only the more extreme of the left where as it affects a MUCH wider population of the right


100% agree.


2020-12-08 6:43 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
“ On Monday, just before midnight, the State of Texas filed a lawsuit that is far more important than all of the others surrounding the presidential election of November 3rd.

Texas brought a suit against four states that did something they cannot do: they violated the U.S. Constitution in their conduct of the presidential election. And this violation occurred regardless of the amount of election fraud that may have resulted. The four defendant states are Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.”

Unlike the other cases, the facts here are not disputed. The constitution gives sole power to state legislatures to set rules for the election of electors and there are clear cases where election officials changed the rules. The press can blow off Sidney and Rudy but a little harder to blow off the state of Texas. It will be interesting to see if the SCOTUS takes up the case.

I’ve read suggestions that the SC might ‘bundle’ all the election related cases into one case. This seems like a good opportunity to do just that.

If I were arguing against this case, I would say the state legislatures who certified the vote essentially gave approval of the rule changes.

However they decide, I hope the voter is 9-0.

Edited by Rogillio 2020-12-08 6:44 AM
2020-12-08 6:49 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by Rogillio

“ On Monday, just before midnight, the State of Texas filed a lawsuit that is far more important than all of the others surrounding the presidential election of November 3rd.

Texas brought a suit against four states that did something they cannot do: they violated the U.S. Constitution in their conduct of the presidential election. And this violation occurred regardless of the amount of election fraud that may have resulted. The four defendant states are Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.”

Unlike the other cases, the facts here are not disputed. The constitution gives sole power to state legislatures to set rules for the election of electors and there are clear cases where election officials changed the rules. The press can blow off Sidney and Rudy but a little harder to blow off the state of Texas. It will be interesting to see if the SCOTUS takes up the case.

I’ve read suggestions that the SC might ‘bundle’ all the election related cases into one case. This seems like a good opportunity to do just that.

If I were arguing against this case, I would say the state legislatures who certified the vote essentially gave approval of the rule changes.

However they decide, I hope the voter is 9-0.


Do you have a link for this ?
2020-12-08 7:47 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio

“ On Monday, just before midnight, the State of Texas filed a lawsuit that is far more important than all of the others surrounding the presidential election of November 3rd.

Texas brought a suit against four states that did something they cannot do: they violated the U.S. Constitution in their conduct of the presidential election. And this violation occurred regardless of the amount of election fraud that may have resulted. The four defendant states are Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.”

Unlike the other cases, the facts here are not disputed. The constitution gives sole power to state legislatures to set rules for the election of electors and there are clear cases where election officials changed the rules. The press can blow off Sidney and Rudy but a little harder to blow off the state of Texas. It will be interesting to see if the SCOTUS takes up the case.

I’ve read suggestions that the SC might ‘bundle’ all the election related cases into one case. This seems like a good opportunity to do just that.

If I were arguing against this case, I would say the state legislatures who certified the vote essentially gave approval of the rule changes.

However they decide, I hope the voter is 9-0.


Do you have a link for this ?



https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/07/texas-sues-georgia-mic...

2020-12-08 8:00 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Interesting

Any idea why this isn't on FoxNews ? It seems big enough.

2020-12-08 8:08 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Interesting

Any idea why this isn't on FoxNews ? It seems big enough.





IDK. So far this is the only place I’ve seen it reported. Looks like it was filed 11 pm last night.

Maybe the MSM is trying to control the narrative that the election is over? As I’ve said before, it’s the courts who will decide when it’s over. Not Trump or Rudy of the media....or BT COJ Political


2020-12-08 10:05 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by marcag

Interesting

Any idea why this isn't on FoxNews ? It seems big enough.





IDK. So far this is the only place I’ve seen it reported. Looks like it was filed 11 pm last night.

Maybe the MSM is trying to control the narrative that the election is over? As I’ve said before, it’s the courts who will decide when it’s over. Not Trump or Rudy of the media....or BT COJ Political


It will be interesting to see where it goes. There seems to be claims in there that have been thrown out by other courts. The 1hour before midnight on the 8th is also interesting

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel dismissed Paxton's suit as "a publicity stunt, not a serious legal pleading. Mr. Paxton’s actions are beneath the dignity of the office of Attorney General and the people of the great state of Texas". If true, very sad.

"FBI is investigating Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, AP report says"

Maybe the dude is looking for a pardon. LOL.

This is one F'd up situation !!!




Edited by marcag 2020-12-08 10:08 AM
2020-12-08 10:44 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by marcag

Interesting

Any idea why this isn't on FoxNews ? It seems big enough.





IDK. So far this is the only place I’ve seen it reported. Looks like it was filed 11 pm last night.

Maybe the MSM is trying to control the narrative that the election is over? As I’ve said before, it’s the courts who will decide when it’s over. Not Trump or Rudy of the media....or BT COJ Political


It will be interesting to see where it goes. There seems to be claims in there that have been thrown out by other courts. The 1hour before midnight on the 8th is also interesting

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel dismissed Paxton's suit as "a publicity stunt, not a serious legal pleading. Mr. Paxton’s actions are beneath the dignity of the office of Attorney General and the people of the great state of Texas". If true, very sad.

"FBI is investigating Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, AP report says"

Maybe the dude is looking for a pardon. LOL.

This is one F'd up situation !!!





My guess is the SC won’t take it up on the basis that not enough votes are affected to change the election.

Forensic analysis of 10 voting machine being done in MI. IF they find something it could open up more investigations. NV SC to hold hearings after 3% of audit votes flipped to Biden. But sample was only 100 votes.

I have no idea what all is going on ‘behind the scenes’. My guess is we hear only a fraction of what is being investigated at the state and federal levels. If the CIA is investigating something no one would know until they finish.
2020-12-08 11:14 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by marcag Interesting Any idea why this isn't on FoxNews ? It seems big enough.
IDK. So far this is the only place I’ve seen it reported. Looks like it was filed 11 pm last night. Maybe the MSM is trying to control the narrative that the election is over? As I’ve said before, it’s the courts who will decide when it’s over. Not Trump or Rudy of the media....or BT COJ Political
It will be interesting to see where it goes. There seems to be claims in there that have been thrown out by other courts. The 1hour before midnight on the 8th is also interesting Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel dismissed Paxton's suit as "a publicity stunt, not a serious legal pleading. Mr. Paxton’s actions are beneath the dignity of the office of Attorney General and the people of the great state of Texas". If true, very sad. "FBI is investigating Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, AP report says" Maybe the dude is looking for a pardon. LOL. This is one F'd up situation !!!
My guess is the SC won’t take it up on the basis that not enough votes are affected to change the election. Forensic analysis of 10 voting machine being done in MI. IF they find something it could open up more investigations. NV SC to hold hearings after 3% of audit votes flipped to Biden. But sample was only 100 votes. I have no idea what all is going on ‘behind the scenes’. My guess is we hear only a fraction of what is being investigated at the state and federal levels. If the CIA is investigating something no one would know until they finish.

Congrats on your 10,000th post!!! 

 

2020-12-08 12:52 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by marcag Interesting Any idea why this isn't on FoxNews ? It seems big enough.
IDK. So far this is the only place I’ve seen it reported. Looks like it was filed 11 pm last night. Maybe the MSM is trying to control the narrative that the election is over? As I’ve said before, it’s the courts who will decide when it’s over. Not Trump or Rudy of the media....or BT COJ Political
It will be interesting to see where it goes. There seems to be claims in there that have been thrown out by other courts. The 1hour before midnight on the 8th is also interesting Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel dismissed Paxton's suit as "a publicity stunt, not a serious legal pleading. Mr. Paxton’s actions are beneath the dignity of the office of Attorney General and the people of the great state of Texas". If true, very sad. "FBI is investigating Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, AP report says" Maybe the dude is looking for a pardon. LOL. This is one F'd up situation !!!
My guess is the SC won’t take it up on the basis that not enough votes are affected to change the election. Forensic analysis of 10 voting machine being done in MI. IF they find something it could open up more investigations. NV SC to hold hearings after 3% of audit votes flipped to Biden. But sample was only 100 votes. I have no idea what all is going on ‘behind the scenes’. My guess is we hear only a fraction of what is being investigated at the state and federal levels. If the CIA is investigating something no one would know until they finish.

Congrats on your 10,000th post!!! 

 




Very cool. Thanks for point long that out. I think I’ve been posting for 15 years. I’ve really enjoyed this site and have several lasting friends. During my first Ironman a group of us doing IMKY posted all day, everyday. That was 13 years ago and I remain friends with several of us who trained together (virtually). We all met at the race and hung out for a few days. Almost quit posting till I found the political Joe. Enjoy politics and debating politics. Really appreciate those who can vehemently disagree civilly and not resort to name calling and insults.

2020-12-09 6:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
The big kahuna.

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/1000652/220

Just read elsewhere 7 states have joined the lawsuit. Looks live Selulov is saying this is the end. If the SCOTUS shoots this down, all the other cases are moot. The SC has given the 4 states named till Thursday pm to actively respond. Not being an expert in constitutional law I have not idea how they will rule. I’m just glad the end is in sight.


ETA

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/1000587/220

One constitutional scholar says not likely.

Still, I guess this is Trump’s Hail Mary play. At least he can tell his supporters ‘we fought it all the way to the Supreme Court’.

Edited by Rogillio 2020-12-09 6:25 AM


2020-12-09 6:29 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction

What a joke

2020-12-09 6:50 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction

Originally posted by Rogillio The big kahuna. https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/1000652/220Just read elsewhere 7 states have joined the lawsuit. Looks live Selulov is saying this is the end. If the SCOTUS shoots this down, all the other cases are moot. The SC has given the 4 states named till Thursday pm to actively respond. Not being an expert in constitutional law I have not idea how they will rule. I’m just glad the end is in sight. ETA https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/1000587/220One constitutional scholar says not likely. Still, I guess this is Trump’s Hail Mary play. At least he can tell his supporters ‘we fought it all the way to the Supreme Court’.

My prediction is that this is a publicity stunt by the Texas AG (who doesn't have standing to bring cases before the SC for Texas, the Solicitor General does and hasn't signed off) looking for a pardon from Trump to cover his legal troubles.

Given the SC dismissed the PA case without hearing it and how the Texas AG is asking to disenfranchise TENS OF MILLIONS OF VOTERS I doubt this will make it to arguments.  I think Trump expects Gorusch, Cavanaugh, and Barrett to bow before the mighty leader, but these people are career legal scholars whose reputations matter to them.

While I agree with you that this should be the "Hail Mary" play, I would put nothing past Trump at this point, including inciting violence.  There are many Trump supporters who would go way beyond your intellectual objection to Biden's win.

2020-12-09 6:56 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag


What a joke




Supreme Court isn’t laughing. Notice they didn’t toss the case. They asked the 4 states to reply by Thursday. I’ll hold off laughing till they decide if they are gonna take up the case.

I found it educational to hear the term “original jurisdiction” used for states suing other states. That means there doesn’t have to be a lower court ruling. This is clearly in the SC’s jurisdiction. Doesn’t mean they will take up the case but at least they are taking it seriously...for now.
2020-12-09 7:03 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by jmhpsu93
looking for a pardon from Trump to cover his legal troubles.


Let's not forget under investigation by the FBI
2020-12-09 8:49 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by jmhpsu93
looking for a pardon from Trump to cover his legal troubles.


Let's not forget under investigation by the FBI



Can I borrow your tinfoil hat? I suppose the AGs from the 6 other states are also looking for pardons? As Joe would say, c’mon man!



2020-12-09 8:54 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by jmhpsu93
looking for a pardon from Trump to cover his legal troubles.


Let's not forget under investigation by the FBI



Can I borrow your tinfoil hat? I suppose the AGs from the 6 other states are also looking for pardons? As Joe would say, c’mon man!



https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/11/18/report-fbi-investi...

a whole whack of other sources, all before this latest move. Sounds like a stand up guy.

Wanna take bets on what SCOTUS will do ?






2020-12-09 8:57 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
GA lawsuit:

“Some of the highlights of the 1,585 page suit include 2,560 felons who voted, 66,247 underage voters, and 2,423 votes from people who were not registered.

The lawsuit additionally lists 1,043 individuals registered at PO boxes, 4,926 individuals who voted in Georgia after registering in another state, 395 individuals who voted in two states, 15,700 votes from people who moved out of state before the election, 40,279 votes of people who moved without re-registering in their new county and 30,000 – 40,000 absentee ballots lacking proper signature matching and verification.”

Pretty specific numbers. Can’t see how they could make such specific claims without data to back up the numbers. Of course, the narrative is “there is no evidence of voter fraud”. SMH
2020-12-10 5:39 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction

Originally posted by Rogillio GA lawsuit: “Some of the highlights of the 1,585 page suit include 2,560 felons who voted, 66,247 underage voters, and 2,423 votes from people who were not registered. The lawsuit additionally lists 1,043 individuals registered at PO boxes, 4,926 individuals who voted in Georgia after registering in another state, 395 individuals who voted in two states, 15,700 votes from people who moved out of state before the election, 40,279 votes of people who moved without re-registering in their new county and 30,000 – 40,000 absentee ballots lacking proper signature matching and verification.” Pretty specific numbers. Can’t see how they could make such specific claims without data to back up the numbers. Of course, the narrative is “there is no evidence of voter fraud”. SMH

Pretty specific numbers without backing evidence, just like the other 55 cases (and counting) cases that have been lost on behalf of Trump.  

If I sue you for $236,846.26 because I say you cheated me, is that any more valid than me suing you for $250,000?

2020-12-10 6:22 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Make your prediction
Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Rogillio GA lawsuit: “Some of the highlights of the 1,585 page suit include 2,560 felons who voted, 66,247 underage voters, and 2,423 votes from people who were not registered. The lawsuit additionally lists 1,043 individuals registered at PO boxes, 4,926 individuals who voted in Georgia after registering in another state, 395 individuals who voted in two states, 15,700 votes from people who moved out of state before the election, 40,279 votes of people who moved without re-registering in their new county and 30,000 – 40,000 absentee ballots lacking proper signature matching and verification.” Pretty specific numbers. Can’t see how they could make such specific claims without data to back up the numbers. Of course, the narrative is “there is no evidence of voter fraud”. SMH

Pretty specific numbers without backing evidence, just like the other 55 cases (and counting) cases that have been lost on behalf of Trump.  

If I sue you for $236,846.26 because I say you cheated me, is that any more valid than me suing you for $250,000?





Why do you assume there is no backing evidence? Do you think they just made up these numbers? All it takes is an search and sort in the databases of who voted to filter out the number of people who voted illegally. If I download my checking account transactions and I filtered on the number of times I used my debit card at McDonald’s I’d have a very accurate account of the number of times I ate at McDonald’s. Not exactly rocket surgery. Mixaphorically speaking.

Looks like 18 states have signed on to the lawsuit. Not sure that matters but I would think it makes it harder for the SC to ignore the case.

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