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 2021-08-16 10:16 AM |
Champion  10157    Alabama |  Subject: AfghanistanAfghanistan withdrawal is heartbreaking! I fear for the women and girls and the people who helped the US over there. They will likely be beaten, tortured, rapped and beheaded under Sharia law of the Taliban. Trump’s withdrawal plan was conditional. The Taliban did not meet the conditions but Biden started withdrawal anyway. He also said the withdrawal was not gonna be conditional. Now he blames Trump. Sorry Biden, you and you alone own this CF. Just like you own the disaster at the border. I am against endless was but I think the withdrawal should have been very gradual. I think the US has a moral responsibility to clean this up. If that mean we deploy 100k troops, so be it. Whatever it takes! |
| 2021-08-16 10:40 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
Expert 4918  Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: Afghanistan We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. |
| 2021-08-16 11:27 AM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by jmhpsu93 We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. Osama wasn’t the only mission. Just heard Leon Ponetta say the second mission was to make sure Afghanistan did not become a safe haven for terrorists. This was a US security issue. At this point I think the best we can do is evacuate as many as possible as quickly as possible. The military has provisions in place to ‘borrow’ commercial airliners. Seems like we could have a plane taking off with refugees every 5 or 10 minutes with a few hundred on board. What seems obvious is our withdrawal plan sucked and we don’t seem to have a backup plan. |
| 2021-08-16 11:57 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Rogillio Afghanistan withdrawal is heartbreaking! I fear for the women and girls and the people who helped the US over there. They will likely be beaten, tortured, rapped and beheaded under Sharia law of the Taliban. Trump’s withdrawal plan was conditional. The Taliban did not meet the conditions but Biden started withdrawal anyway. He also said the withdrawal was not gonna be conditional. Now he blames Trump. Sorry Biden, you and you alone own this CF. Just like you own the disaster at the border. I am against endless was but I think the withdrawal should have been very gradual. I think the US has a moral responsibility to clean this up. If that mean we deploy 100k troops, so be it. Whatever it takes! This is your post from Oct 10, 2019. You and Joe think alike. Originally posted by Rogillio Trump is pulling the plug on Syria. Taking some criticism from people saying we are abandoning the Kurds. My thinking is the Muslims have been fighting among themselves for thousands of years and we need to get of of other country’s civil wars. I also support pulling out of Afghanistan. Yes, the country might devolve into chaos but after 18 years they cannot establish a stable government it is just not gonna happen. We could still support remotely with air strikes and drones but I don’t think more Americans need to die over there in a war that will never end. Edited by marcag 2021-08-16 12:00 PM |
| 2021-08-16 12:02 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Expert 4918 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Osama wasn’t the only mission. Just heard Leon Ponetta say the second mission was to make sure Afghanistan did not become a safe haven for terrorists. This was a US security issue. At this point I think the best we can do is evacuate as many as possible as quickly as possible. The military has provisions in place to ‘borrow’ commercial airliners. Seems like we could have a plane taking off with refugees every 5 or 10 minutes with a few hundred on board. What seems obvious is our withdrawal plan sucked and we don’t seem to have a backup plan. We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. And how did that work out for us? $2T+, 2500 Americans dead, 20K+ more wounded, over 60K Afghan forces killed and that place is now ruled by a smarter, more well-supplied wacko "government". We tried saturation bombing, cave-by-cave shooting, hearts and minds, spending billions training thousands of Afghan troops that put their hands up and surrendered often before shots were fired. Apparently surrender plans were at the ready (and had been in the works for over a year...) for when we left. What an intelligence policy failure that spans four administrations. I read (source: Yahoo News) that we are sending 6,000 troops to maintain security around the airport and defend the airspace, and that the Taliban have been warned not to F&@#! with our evacuation. I don't know where we're going to send all of these unvetted refugees either.
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| 2021-08-16 12:51 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
1731 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Osama wasn’t the only mission. Just heard Leon Ponetta say the second mission was to make sure Afghanistan did not become a safe haven for terrorists. This was a US security issue. At this point I think the best we can do is evacuate as many as possible as quickly as possible. The military has provisions in place to ‘borrow’ commercial airliners. Seems like we could have a plane taking off with refugees every 5 or 10 minutes with a few hundred on board. What seems obvious is our withdrawal plan sucked and we don’t seem to have a backup plan. We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. And how did that work out for us? $2T+, 2500 Americans dead, 20K+ more wounded, over 60K Afghan forces killed and that place is now ruled by a smarter, more well-supplied wacko "government". We tried saturation bombing, cave-by-cave shooting, hearts and minds, spending billions training thousands of Afghan troops that put their hands up and surrendered often before shots were fired. Apparently surrender plans were at the ready (and had been in the works for over a year...) for when we left. What an intelligence policy failure that spans four administrations. I read (source: Yahoo News) that we are sending 6,000 troops to maintain security around the airport and defend the airspace, and that the Taliban have been warned not to F&@#! with our evacuation. I don't know where we're going to send all of these unvetted refugees either.
I read in Polish news (my home country) that rumor says Taliban folks won't intervene with evacuation - as they don't want anyone from the opposition to stay in the country. Now there is a huge concern for European countries, as there will be waves of refugees flooding their countries... I read that nobody wants to stay in Pakistan, Iran is willing to build camps, bu tthey need some financial support. So far nobody from Europe expressed any willingness to support Iranian camps, and we may not expect any assistance from US. Turkey is already overwhelmed with refugees, thus, the next stop will be Western Europe. So far (at least as of this morning, when I read the news) European Union has not come up with a plan nor strategy. |
| 2021-08-16 1:26 PM in reply to: marcag |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Rogillio Afghanistan withdrawal is heartbreaking! I fear for the women and girls and the people who helped the US over there. They will likely be beaten, tortured, rapped and beheaded under Sharia law of the Taliban. Trump’s withdrawal plan was conditional. The Taliban did not meet the conditions but Biden started withdrawal anyway. He also said the withdrawal was not gonna be conditional. Now he blames Trump. Sorry Biden, you and you alone own this CF. Just like you own the disaster at the border. I am against endless was but I think the withdrawal should have been very gradual. I think the US has a moral responsibility to clean this up. If that mean we deploy 100k troops, so be it. Whatever it takes! This is your post from Oct 10, 2019. You and Joe think alike. Originally posted by Rogillio Trump is pulling the plug on Syria. Taking some criticism from people saying we are abandoning the Kurds. My thinking is the Muslims have been fighting among themselves for thousands of years and we need to get of of other country’s civil wars. I also support pulling out of Afghanistan. Yes, the country might devolve into chaos but after 18 years they cannot establish a stable government it is just not gonna happen. We could still support remotely with air strikes and drones but I don’t think more Americans need to die over there in a war that will never end. I still support us leaving but with the caveat in my last sentence from the 2019 post. What I’ve heard is the Afghan army was doing try vast majority of fighting but they lacked air support. No reason we had to pull out completely to get out of harms way. The Taliban does not have much in the way of air defense and we could support them with heavy artillery, A-10s, B52s and cruise missiles and drones. |
| 2021-08-16 1:28 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Osama wasn’t the only mission. Just heard Leon Ponetta say the second mission was to make sure Afghanistan did not become a safe haven for terrorists. This was a US security issue. At this point I think the best we can do is evacuate as many as possible as quickly as possible. The military has provisions in place to ‘borrow’ commercial airliners. Seems like we could have a plane taking off with refugees every 5 or 10 minutes with a few hundred on board. What seems obvious is our withdrawal plan sucked and we don’t seem to have a backup plan. We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. And how did that work out for us? $2T+, 2500 Americans dead, 20K+ more wounded, over 60K Afghan forces killed and that place is now ruled by a smarter, more well-supplied wacko "government". We tried saturation bombing, cave-by-cave shooting, hearts and minds, spending billions training thousands of Afghan troops that put their hands up and surrendered often before shots were fired. Apparently surrender plans were at the ready (and had been in the works for over a year...) for when we left. What an intelligence policy failure that spans four administrations. I read (source: Yahoo News) that we are sending 6,000 troops to maintain security around the airport and defend the airspace, and that the Taliban have been warned not to F&@#! with our evacuation. I don't know where we're going to send all of these unvetted refugees either.
For all the Americans killed in Afghanistan, they did not die in vain. Afghanistan brought us 9/11 and the death of 3k Americans. One of the missions in Afghanistan was to keep it from being a terrorist haven training and deploying terrorists around the world. For 20 years we kept the Taliban in check. We will never know how many more 9/11 attacks we kept from happening over the last 20 years. |
| 2021-08-16 2:21 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Expert 4918 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 For all the Americans killed in Afghanistan, they did not die in vain. Afghanistan brought us 9/11 and the death of 3k Americans. One of the missions in Afghanistan was to keep it from being a terrorist haven training and deploying terrorists around the world. For 20 years we kept the Taliban in check. We will never know how many more 9/11 attacks we kept from happening over the last 20 years. Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Osama wasn’t the only mission. Just heard Leon Ponetta say the second mission was to make sure Afghanistan did not become a safe haven for terrorists. This was a US security issue. At this point I think the best we can do is evacuate as many as possible as quickly as possible. The military has provisions in place to ‘borrow’ commercial airliners. Seems like we could have a plane taking off with refugees every 5 or 10 minutes with a few hundred on board. What seems obvious is our withdrawal plan sucked and we don’t seem to have a backup plan. We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. And how did that work out for us? $2T+, 2500 Americans dead, 20K+ more wounded, over 60K Afghan forces killed and that place is now ruled by a smarter, more well-supplied wacko "government". We tried saturation bombing, cave-by-cave shooting, hearts and minds, spending billions training thousands of Afghan troops that put their hands up and surrendered often before shots were fired. Apparently surrender plans were at the ready (and had been in the works for over a year...) for when we left. What an intelligence policy failure that spans four administrations. I read (source: Yahoo News) that we are sending 6,000 troops to maintain security around the airport and defend the airspace, and that the Taliban have been warned not to F&@#! with our evacuation. I don't know where we're going to send all of these unvetted refugees either.
So you're basically saying here that we need to keep it up to prevent more 9/11 type attacks or more broadly, terrorist activities, and then you're also saying we need to get out of there. You can't have it both ways. The Afghan military, and I use that term loosely, had apparently no appetite for continuing our mission and surrendered at the earliest opportunity. We could MOAB bomb Kanduhar back to the stone age and it wouldn't make one bit of difference. You can't hold land without boots on the ground, and you can't win a land war in Asia. The only way for us to effectively put down the Taliban would have been a MASSIVE invasion force with the intent of a semi-permanent occupation and civilian settlement. No other way to do it. |
| 2021-08-16 5:14 PM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 For all the Americans killed in Afghanistan, they did not die in vain. Afghanistan brought us 9/11 and the death of 3k Americans. One of the missions in Afghanistan was to keep it from being a terrorist haven training and deploying terrorists around the world. For 20 years we kept the Taliban in check. We will never know how many more 9/11 attacks we kept from happening over the last 20 years. Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Osama wasn’t the only mission. Just heard Leon Ponetta say the second mission was to make sure Afghanistan did not become a safe haven for terrorists. This was a US security issue. At this point I think the best we can do is evacuate as many as possible as quickly as possible. The military has provisions in place to ‘borrow’ commercial airliners. Seems like we could have a plane taking off with refugees every 5 or 10 minutes with a few hundred on board. What seems obvious is our withdrawal plan sucked and we don’t seem to have a backup plan. We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. And how did that work out for us? $2T+, 2500 Americans dead, 20K+ more wounded, over 60K Afghan forces killed and that place is now ruled by a smarter, more well-supplied wacko "government". We tried saturation bombing, cave-by-cave shooting, hearts and minds, spending billions training thousands of Afghan troops that put their hands up and surrendered often before shots were fired. Apparently surrender plans were at the ready (and had been in the works for over a year...) for when we left. What an intelligence policy failure that spans four administrations. I read (source: Yahoo News) that we are sending 6,000 troops to maintain security around the airport and defend the airspace, and that the Taliban have been warned not to F&@#! with our evacuation. I don't know where we're going to send all of these unvetted refugees either.
So you're basically saying here that we need to keep it up to prevent more 9/11 type attacks or more broadly, terrorist activities, and then you're also saying we need to get out of there. You can't have it both ways. The Afghan military, and I use that term loosely, had apparently no appetite for continuing our mission and surrendered at the earliest opportunity. We could MOAB bomb Kanduhar back to the stone age and it wouldn't make one bit of difference. You can't hold land without boots on the ground, and you can't win a land war in Asia. The only way for us to effectively put down the Taliban would have been a MASSIVE invasion force with the intent of a semi-permanent occupation and civilian settlement. No other way to do it. You are probably right. I’m not an expert, just an arm chair QB who can see we f’d it up. Maybe withdrawal was not the answer. Maybe we should have stayed? If we pulled out of Korea, the south would quickly fall to the north. If we pull out of Taiwan China would take over in days. I just hope we somehow protect the women and girls from what will happen to them under the Taliban. |
| 2021-08-16 6:15 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
Expert 4918 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Rogillio The question we had ask to ourselves was is this piece of ground worth the investment of what we put into Korea or Taiwan, or hell even Japan post WWII, which was basically a large US miltary base for 50 years. Maybe a North and South Afghanistan? Create the largest airbase in the world and rile up the Chinese and Russians? I dunno, you're right, we effed up, but was the right call? We're all Monday morning QBs right now at this.I said before the optics of this really don't look good, and at the margins some of this could have been done better (like securing the airport ahead of time, etc.). But I don't put sole blame on this mess anymore on Biden than I would've put it on Trump or Obama or Bush.As for the women and girls, I'm with you in my prayers for them.Originally posted by jmhpsu93 You are probably right. I’m not an expert, just an arm chair QB who can see we f’d it up. Maybe withdrawal was not the answer. Maybe we should have stayed? If we pulled out of Korea, the south would quickly fall to the north. If we pull out of Taiwan China would take over in days. I just hope we somehow protect the women and girls from what will happen to them under the Taliban. Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 For all the Americans killed in Afghanistan, they did not die in vain. Afghanistan brought us 9/11 and the death of 3k Americans. One of the missions in Afghanistan was to keep it from being a terrorist haven training and deploying terrorists around the world. For 20 years we kept the Taliban in check. We will never know how many more 9/11 attacks we kept from happening over the last 20 years. Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Osama wasn’t the only mission. Just heard Leon Ponetta say the second mission was to make sure Afghanistan did not become a safe haven for terrorists. This was a US security issue. At this point I think the best we can do is evacuate as many as possible as quickly as possible. The military has provisions in place to ‘borrow’ commercial airliners. Seems like we could have a plane taking off with refugees every 5 or 10 minutes with a few hundred on board. What seems obvious is our withdrawal plan sucked and we don’t seem to have a backup plan. We should have packed bags and left 15 minutes after we took down Bin Laden. There was no exit strategy that was ever going to prevent this from happening. We could have spent another 3 months there, or 3 decades. Wouldn't matter. The Taliban plays the long game, we play to the next election cycle. I concur with your feelings towards those left behind, and women in particular are going to be the ones that suffer the most. The optics on this look bad for Biden, for sure. At some point we need to realize as a country that nation-building in areas of the world that have zero cultural history of Western-type government is a dead end. And how did that work out for us? $2T+, 2500 Americans dead, 20K+ more wounded, over 60K Afghan forces killed and that place is now ruled by a smarter, more well-supplied wacko "government". We tried saturation bombing, cave-by-cave shooting, hearts and minds, spending billions training thousands of Afghan troops that put their hands up and surrendered often before shots were fired. Apparently surrender plans were at the ready (and had been in the works for over a year...) for when we left. What an intelligence policy failure that spans four administrations. I read (source: Yahoo News) that we are sending 6,000 troops to maintain security around the airport and defend the airspace, and that the Taliban have been warned not to F&@#! with our evacuation. I don't know where we're going to send all of these unvetted refugees either.
So you're basically saying here that we need to keep it up to prevent more 9/11 type attacks or more broadly, terrorist activities, and then you're also saying we need to get out of there. You can't have it both ways. The Afghan military, and I use that term loosely, had apparently no appetite for continuing our mission and surrendered at the earliest opportunity. We could MOAB bomb Kanduhar back to the stone age and it wouldn't make one bit of difference. You can't hold land without boots on the ground, and you can't win a land war in Asia. The only way for us to effectively put down the Taliban would have been a MASSIVE invasion force with the intent of a semi-permanent occupation and civilian settlement. No other way to do it. |
| 2021-08-18 11:41 AM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Afghanistan No. This debacle that we are watching is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on President Biden. A 3rd grader wouldn't have pulled his troops out before all of the civilians who wanted/needed to leave were home. This is the most ridiculously inept administration of my lifetime. The best part is I apparently can't find one of those 81,000,000 people who voted for this fiasco. |
| 2021-08-18 7:48 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 4918 Middle River, Maryland Silver member | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Left Brain No. This debacle that we are watching is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on President Biden. A 3rd grader wouldn't have pulled his troops out before all of the civilians who wanted/needed to leave were home. This is the most ridiculously inept administration of my lifetime. The best part is I apparently can't find one of those 81,000,000 people who voted for this fiasco. So you're saying we should have stayed then. For how long? Please lay out your specific exit strategy, oh one with 20/20 hindsight. Perhaps you should throw some of your shame at some of the Republican house members who voted against expedited visas for those Afghans that worked for and supported us, if you're so concerned about civilians. I"m tired of the criticism without specifics other than "this was wrong". Not the best outcome, yep. No win scenario, and the optics suck. The Taliban even admitted they were shocked how badly the Afghan military and government laid over. This is going to be examined for years. This has been a mess for 20 years, and every single administration has messed this up. I'm one of the 81M, and as I said before we should have done this 15 minutes after we got Bin Laden. Now we're out, and that's a good thing for America. |
| 2021-08-20 9:42 AM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by Left Brain No. This debacle that we are watching is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on President Biden. A 3rd grader wouldn't have pulled his troops out before all of the civilians who wanted/needed to leave were home. This is the most ridiculously inept administration of my lifetime. The best part is I apparently can't find one of those 81,000,000 people who voted for this fiasco. So you're saying we should have stayed then. For how long? Please lay out your specific exit strategy, oh one with 20/20 hindsight. Perhaps you should throw some of your shame at some of the Republican house members who voted against expedited visas for those Afghans that worked for and supported us, if you're so concerned about civilians. I"m tired of the criticism without specifics other than "this was wrong". Not the best outcome, yep. No win scenario, and the optics suck. The Taliban even admitted they were shocked how badly the Afghan military and government laid over. This is going to be examined for years. This has been a mess for 20 years, and every single administration has messed this up. I'm one of the 81M, and as I said before we should have done this 15 minutes after we got Bin Laden. Now we're out, and that's a good thing for America. Where did I say we should stay? Does anyone read anymore? Once again.....A THIRD GRADER WOULD KNOW ENOUGH TO KEEP BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO RUN THE WITHDRAWAL.....THE IDIOT IN CHIEF PULLED TROOPS OUT WITH NO PLAN TO GET CIVILIANS OUT...AND THEN HAD TO SEND TROOPS BACK. AND WE ARMED THE TALIBAN WITH THE LATEST AND GREATEST EQUIPMENT AND ARMS. The calamitous withdrawal is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on Biden. He's a moron with regard to foreign policy....go back and look was he said as a Jr. Senator in 1975 as we withdrew from Vietnam. For forks sake....we deserve these idiots after letting them stay in political office for 40 years. |
| 2021-08-20 12:12 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
| , Arizona | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by Left Brain No. This debacle that we are watching is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on President Biden. A 3rd grader wouldn't have pulled his troops out before all of the civilians who wanted/needed to leave were home. This is the most ridiculously inept administration of my lifetime. The best part is I apparently can't find one of those 81,000,000 people who voted for this fiasco. So you're saying we should have stayed then. For how long? Please lay out your specific exit strategy, oh one with 20/20 hindsight. Perhaps you should throw some of your shame at some of the Republican house members who voted against expedited visas for those Afghans that worked for and supported us, if you're so concerned about civilians. I"m tired of the criticism without specifics other than "this was wrong". Not the best outcome, yep. No win scenario, and the optics suck. The Taliban even admitted they were shocked how badly the Afghan military and government laid over. This is going to be examined for years. This has been a mess for 20 years, and every single administration has messed this up. I'm one of the 81M, and as I said before we should have done this 15 minutes after we got Bin Laden. Now we're out, and that's a good thing for America. Where did I say we should stay? Does anyone read anymore? Once again.....A THIRD GRADER WOULD KNOW ENOUGH TO KEEP BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO RUN THE WITHDRAWAL.....THE IDIOT IN CHIEF PULLED TROOPS OUT WITH NO PLAN TO GET CIVILIANS OUT...AND THEN HAD TO SEND TROOPS BACK. AND WE ARMED THE TALIBAN WITH THE LATEST AND GREATEST EQUIPMENT AND ARMS. The calamitous withdrawal is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on Biden. He's a moron with regard to foreign policy....go back and look was he said as a Jr. Senator in 1975 as we withdrew from Vietnam. For forks sake....we deserve these idiots after letting them stay in political office for 40 years. A third grader would also know that nobody can see into the future. The Taliban took control of their first providence on August 6th, they took Kabul on August 15th. Not knowing the Afghanistan government would LET the Taliban sweep the country in a matters of days, then why the hell would anyone leave prior to recent events? They were planning to stay after the US military had gone, surely 20 years of training and hundreds of billions of funding would last more than a few weeks. We get it, everyone is a military genius critiquing what others did or didn't do after unforeseen events have already happened. -Yawn- Certainly this was an intelligence failure. Thankfully the Taliban are not interfering with our withdrawal operations to get civilians out. It's a mess, but nobody is getting killed. Whatever, lets get it over with. |
| 2021-08-20 1:11 PM in reply to: Synon |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Synon Originally posted by Left Brain A third grader would also know that nobody can see into the future. The Taliban took control of their first providence on August 6th, they took Kabul on August 15th. Not knowing the Afghanistan government would LET the Taliban sweep the country in a matters of days, then why the hell would anyone leave prior to recent events? They were planning to stay after the US military had gone, surely 20 years of training and hundreds of billions of funding would last more than a few weeks. We get it, everyone is a military genius critiquing what others did or didn't do after unforeseen events have already happened. -Yawn- Certainly this was an intelligence failure. Thankfully the Taliban are not interfering with our withdrawal operations to get civilians out. It's a mess, but nobody is getting killed. Whatever, lets get it over with. Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by Left Brain No. This debacle that we are watching is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on President Biden. A 3rd grader wouldn't have pulled his troops out before all of the civilians who wanted/needed to leave were home. This is the most ridiculously inept administration of my lifetime. The best part is I apparently can't find one of those 81,000,000 people who voted for this fiasco. So you're saying we should have stayed then. For how long? Please lay out your specific exit strategy, oh one with 20/20 hindsight. Perhaps you should throw some of your shame at some of the Republican house members who voted against expedited visas for those Afghans that worked for and supported us, if you're so concerned about civilians. I"m tired of the criticism without specifics other than "this was wrong". Not the best outcome, yep. No win scenario, and the optics suck. The Taliban even admitted they were shocked how badly the Afghan military and government laid over. This is going to be examined for years. This has been a mess for 20 years, and every single administration has messed this up. I'm one of the 81M, and as I said before we should have done this 15 minutes after we got Bin Laden. Now we're out, and that's a good thing for America. Where did I say we should stay? Does anyone read anymore? Once again.....A THIRD GRADER WOULD KNOW ENOUGH TO KEEP BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO RUN THE WITHDRAWAL.....THE IDIOT IN CHIEF PULLED TROOPS OUT WITH NO PLAN TO GET CIVILIANS OUT...AND THEN HAD TO SEND TROOPS BACK. AND WE ARMED THE TALIBAN WITH THE LATEST AND GREATEST EQUIPMENT AND ARMS. The calamitous withdrawal is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT on Biden. He's a moron with regard to foreign policy....go back and look was he said as a Jr. Senator in 1975 as we withdrew from Vietnam. For forks sake....we deserve these idiots after letting them stay in political office for 40 years.
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| 2021-08-21 10:53 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Afghanistan A good third grader would have contingency plans in place so the top generals could make audibles at the first sign the plan was going south. There’s an old saying in the military “no plan will survive the first contact with the enemy”. So when you plan, you ALWAYS have a back up plan and contingency plan ready to execute. When the first city fell they should have immediately changed course. They did nothing and one by one every major city fell. In related news….looks like the Military people and the State Department don’t talk to one another. The military spokesman just now gave a briefing and was asked about the warning issued by the State Department warning American not to try to get to the airport. He said he was not aware of the order. SMH. The withdrawal stated as a CF goat rope and had gone down hill from there. |
| 2021-08-22 2:11 PM in reply to: Rogillio |
| , Arizona | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Change course to what, exactly? To the offensive? We are continuing to leave without hostile interactions and without attacks, picking a fight would not have helped us when it was clear government forces were not interested in resisting. |
| 2021-08-23 11:07 AM in reply to: Synon |
Champion 10157 Alabama | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Originally posted by Synon Change course to what, exactly? To the offensive? We are continuing to leave without hostile interactions and without attacks, picking a fight would not have helped us when it was clear government forces were not interested in resisting. Change to a search and recovery operation. Establish secures lines of exodus for all Americans. If that means we go back on the offensive, so be it. Airdrop in and armored tank division if need be. I just watch the press conference and the are hiding behind this 31 Aug date but also admit they don’t even know how many Americans are in country. My hope is we are secretly deploying seal teams and recon teams and Green Berets and Rangers on extraction missions. Obviously they would not annoy this at a press conference. During Desert Storm I was working in an EOC at APG. We had CNN on all the time and watched multiple daily press meetings. I was amazed at the amount of wrong information we put out! It eventually occurred to me they were presenting data to Iraqis not the press. So they would under report, over report, mislead, fudge numbers up or down and yes, outright lie. So take what you hear at the press meetings with a shaker of salt. |
| 2021-08-30 10:02 AM in reply to: Rogillio |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Afghanistan Without question....this is the most disgusting display of "leadership not being up to the task" in my lifetime. The best part is I can't find one of those 81,000,0000 Biden "voters" who will admit to putting this nitwit into office. Still, be proud....you got what you asked for. LMAO |
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