General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Which Powermeter/best price? Rss Feed  
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2006-10-17 7:56 PM

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Champion
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Subject: Which Powermeter/best price?

To jump off from Lisa's thread about race wheels....and why power meter might be better for her.

I'm going to get a powermeter, just trying to decide which one to get and where to get the best deal. Money is an issue...

Opinions between the Powertap and Ergo line? Why is one better than the other?

I have one tri bike but will probably get a second road bike. I don't race with gadgets...no bike computer, etc. so I won't be racing with my power meter only training with it so if I go with a Powertap, I'll just get the basic cheap training wheel.

Performance has a Power Tap with wheel for $1000, with a 20% off coupon and the 10% rebate, it is 28% off list, so net cost would be $720.

I'm not sure I'm big on ebay purchase with something this expensive.



2006-10-17 8:18 PM
in reply to: #571323

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?

The reason I am so high on the Ergo line is the fact that it is crank based so you don't have to ride your race wheels anytime you want to go train with power or change out your hub constantly.

 

On the other hand you can switch the Power Tap back and forth between your tri bike and road bike.

 

Both are good products, I would however stay away from the Polar Power add on kit. I have read that it is very unreliable.

2006-10-17 8:18 PM
in reply to: #571323


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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
I would go with the powertap. For $70 (i think check with local BS) you can buy another mount and put it on your race bike and do non a races with it and also train on your race with. With the ergo you really cant do that, I mean you can but who really wants to be taking out a BB all the time. The only problem with that powertap model is that it will leak, and go haywire, and the freeball bearing will need grease and adjustment. I had the cheaper one at first but quickley got the SL because its just that much better and user friendly. But they are coming out with the wireless version. Again think of easy of swapping out. And how many time you'll be in the rain or on the trainer sweating and then think if you really want to be in the basement with the bearings everywhere drying them, that was me 2 times till i quickley learned about the SL.
2006-10-17 8:20 PM
in reply to: #571323

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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?

If you're not going to race with it then the Power Tap is much cheaper. The benefit of the Ergomo is that you can have mulitple bikes and like Rocket said, its crank based and you can use different wheels.

You can't get it wet though! I've known someone to pee on their bike and the PT went on the fritz!

2006-10-17 8:22 PM
in reply to: #571323


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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
To add to his post. In the end its just a #. At the end of the day if the number is higher then you are pushing harder. You can not compare numbers from two different power systems. Right or wrong as long as its consistent then in the end it does not matter.
2006-10-17 8:28 PM
in reply to: #571323

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
All have pros and cons >>> read the following link: http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/freeinfo/Power_Tools.html

I love my PT pro but I was somehow disappointed this year when the unit didn't work at the rainy races. I do like the fact that I have mounted PT transmitter on my road and tri bikes and in order to train with power on any I just need to switch the back wheel. Now I’ve been considering getting an ergomo because it provides some info and features that the PT doesn’t and to buy a disc for racing (Although I’ve been racing with a plastic disc cover with good results) I am pretty sure I’ll keep my PT for my road bike but I might sell it… I think you can’t go wrong with either PT, SRM or ergomo…



2006-10-17 8:33 PM
in reply to: #571337

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
Comet - 2006-10-17 8:20 PM

If you're not going to race with it then the Power Tap is much cheaper. The benefit of the Ergomo is that you can have mulitple bikes and like Rocket said, its crank based and you can use different wheels.

You can't get it wet though! I've known someone to pee on their bike and the PT went on the fritz!

Sorry Haley not peaking on you, just using your post to make a point  

FYI - if you get a power meter learn how to use it (read training with power by hunter allen) and/or make sure your coach knows how to take advatage and train with it. AND PLEASE if you train with power, you SHOULD race with it!

2006-10-17 8:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
Just dont become a slave to the number and inturn not be able to race without it because you nolonger understand your body. That is the main downfall to PT people lose sight of mind body awareness. You should know how your feeling pretty quickley into a ride and how long you can hold a certian pace.
2006-10-17 8:43 PM
in reply to: #571338

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
Bought the Powertap of eBay and have found it reasonably reliable, but did find water ingress into the electronics a little too easy. So if I have a really wet ride then I undo the rear battery cover just to make sure it dries out. Works really well, has changed the way I ride and train. Also strongly recommend that you get Cycling Peaks so you can really start to understand the data you are collecting as even the new PowerTap software is pretty weak.

s-worksman - 2006-10-18 11:22 AM

To add to his post. In the end its just a #. At the end of the day if the number is higher then you are pushing harder. You can not compare numbers from two different power systems. Right or wrong as long as its consistent then in the end it does not matter.


Hey, Captain Caveman - thanks for the message from the stone age

- Numbers from two different power systems should be completely comparable, that's the point of a power system. I've had my bike on the Computrainer with the Powertap on and they are directly comparable. You do get some (small) differences vs the crank bases systems due to the loss in the drivetrain (friction etc). Also seen people put SRM, Powertap and then ride the Computrainer and they've all come out very close.
- The whole point of Power is not just "if you push harder you go faster but also get more tired", its starting to understand that variablity of output, length of hard efforts, exactly how hard etc can all make a huge difference to performance and training. For example for me a ride at 220W vs a ride at 235W (only 7% harder) is a very different proposition, produces a very different training impact, and, more importantly produces a very different run leg.

In my mind (and as you can tell I've converted so far into the Church of Power I've become a Lay Preacher) there are two benefits from Power.
- Its a superior measure to heart rate for instantaneous effort measurement, whether its intervals, race pace or whatever.
- As a data collection and analysis tool to understand your riding and training you can really dig into your riding post ride. It gives you much more concrete feedback and allows you to tweak your training much more accurately.
2006-10-17 8:49 PM
in reply to: #571323

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?

Boy we are a testy hijacking bunch tonight aren't we?

The thing about training with Power is 200watts is 200watts is 200watts, whether its windy, raining, hot, cold , etc. Power output is affected by the same variables as a HRM. Much more reliable data, especially when doing intervals or threshold work outs.

2006-10-17 9:19 PM
in reply to: #571323

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
KathyG - 2006-10-17 5:56 PM

I don't race with gadgets...no bike computer, etc. so I won't be racing with my power meter only training with it so if I go with a Powertap



If you aren't training and racing with HR and cadence on a bike computer now a power meter is going to be a BIG big jump. Not saying it cant be done but why bother if you are even using the training/racing basics now.


2006-10-17 9:34 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?

This is another good online resource.  I can't decide either, let alone let go of tht kind of cash but I know I will improve greatly if I use it correctly.

http://trainwithpower.net/

2006-10-17 10:31 PM
in reply to: #571323

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
Ergomo all the way - and my reasons are here:
  1. Unlike a Power Tap, the Ergomo lets you ride and race on any wheel set you want. You don’t need to build another wheel for racing like Power Tap or race with a wheel cover.
  2. Like an SRM replaces your cranks, the Ergomo replaces your bottom bracket, but the Ergomo is priced between the SRM and the Power Tap, yet provides much more information while you ride, and costs much less than an SRM.

You can learn more about the Ergomo here:
www.thepowermeter.com

If there is enough interest and there are more than 5 people willing to order through me, I would throw in free shipping and a 12 week power plan to boot.

2006-10-18 12:02 AM
in reply to: #571323

Champion
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?

If anyone wants to take up Mike on the 5-person plan, let me know.  I might be interested in going this route, plus I'd like to get the carbon fiber crank set to go with it.  Mike, am I understood that currently this is only available (the fiber crankset) in Campy bottom bracket configuration?  Will there be a Shimano carbon fiber unit coming out soon?

 

2006-10-18 1:22 AM
in reply to: #571470

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
max - 2006-10-17 10:02 PM

If anyone wants to take up Mike on the 5-person plan, let me know.  I might be interested in going this route, plus I'd like to get the carbon fiber crank set to go with it.  Mike, am I understood that currently this is only available (the fiber crankset) in Campy bottom bracket configuration?  Will there be a Shimano carbon fiber unit coming out soon?

 

Ergomo does make their own carbon fiber cranks to go with the Ergomo bottom bracket. This would be what's called a square taper on the bottom bracket. So your Ergomo is available in Square Taper, ISIS or Octalink versions, so any crank that's compatible with those systems will work.  FSA  makes nice carbon ISIS cranksas well, Stella Azura, some older Truvativ cranks also work with ISIS.  The DA9 will work with Octalink.  Just about any 9-speed compatible crank should work with a 10-speed system. 

I haven't heard anything about a Shimano carbon set coming out.

2006-10-18 5:54 AM
in reply to: #571346

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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
amiine - 2006-10-17 8:33 PM
Comet - 2006-10-17 8:20 PM

If you're not going to race with it then the Power Tap is much cheaper. The benefit of the Ergomo is that you can have mulitple bikes and like Rocket said, its crank based and you can use different wheels.

You can't get it wet though! I've known someone to pee on their bike and the PT went on the fritz!

Sorry Haley not peaking on you, just using your post to make a point  

FYI - if you get a power meter learn how to use it (read training with power by hunter allen) and/or make sure your coach knows how to take advatage and train with it. AND PLEASE if you train with power, you SHOULD race with it!

Well, actually I don't understand why someone would want to drop that kind of $$ on something when they don't train with gadgets as it is and are saying they won't race with it. But this isn't ST and she didn't ask about a coach or how to use it with a coach and in training, she wanted to know the differences in the PT and the Ergomo.

Not picking on you or anything.



2006-10-18 6:56 AM
in reply to: #571441

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
mikericci - 2006-10-17 10:31 PM

Ergomo all the way - and my reasons are here: .........

< but the Ergomo is priced between the SRM and the Power Tap, yet provides much more information while you ride........


I was hoping Coach Ricci would join this discussion. I've got the ErgomoPro and all I can say is that being able to see HR, cadence, watts, and speed all displayed at once on the Ergomo computer is very kewl. You can toggle to a different screen and get a bunch of other "real time" info as well. The Ergo Racer software is basically identical to CyclingPeaks software. Going into IMWI knowing my FTP and having a game plan for watts for different portions of the bike leg gave me a lot of confidence for my first IM (too bad sickness threw a wrench into that game plan!).

No need to worry about rainy weather with an ErgomoPro....seriously, why would anyone consider purchasing a product that may not perform in wet weather???? Also, you can purchase a seperate Ergomo bottom bracket unit to put on a second bike and switch the computer unit between the two bikes.
2006-10-18 7:14 AM
in reply to: #571470

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
max - 2006-10-18 12:02 AM

If anyone wants to take up Mike on the 5-person plan, let me know.  I might be interested in going this route, plus I'd like to get the carbon fiber crank set to go with it.  Mike, am I understood that currently this is only available (the fiber crankset) in Campy bottom bracket configuration?  Will there be a Shimano carbon fiber unit coming out soon?

 

I definitely will get one at some point over the winter so count me in Max
2006-10-18 8:54 AM
in reply to: #571524

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?

Birkierunner - 2006-10-18 4:56 AM
mikericci - 2006-10-17 10:31 PM Ergomo all the way - and my reasons are here: ......... < but the Ergomo is priced between the SRM and the Power Tap, yet provides much more information while you ride........
I was hoping Coach Ricci would join this discussion.

>>Thanks Birkie!

I've got the ErgomoPro and all I can say is that being able to see HR, cadence, watts, and speed all displayed at once on the Ergomo computer is very kewl.

>>>You are JUST scratching the surface. Watching IF, TSS and NP is very important too.
:-)

You can toggle to a different screen and get a bunch of other "real time" info as well. The Ergo Racer software is basically identical to CyclingPeaks software.

>>>The new Cycling Peaks WKO+ allows you to use something called PMC - check it out - basically you can 'measure' out your peak over several months. Once I have some good data on my athletes this is what I am doing - laying out months of workouts based on TSS and then having them 'peak' when they want to. Neat stuff.

Going into IMWI knowing my FTP and having a game plan for watts for different portions of the bike leg gave me a lot of confidence for my first IM (too bad sickness threw a wrench into that game plan!). No need to worry about rainy weather with an ErgomoPro....seriously, why would anyone consider purchasing a product that may not perform in wet weather????

>>>Good question - and the answer is...they don't know what they are missing with an Ergomo! ;-)

Also, you can purchase a seperate Ergomo bottom bracket unit to put on a second bike and switch the computer unit between the two bikes.

>>>Exactly what I did and some of my athletes have done. The information of course is only as good as the user so you need to be informed and read up on power as much as you can. Check out the PMC when you get a chance.

2006-10-18 9:39 AM
in reply to: #571323

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?

I do train with HRM and bike computer. I opt not to race with gadgets as I tend to over analyze stuff. With the help of my coach I stopped using gadgets and I do much better in that I enjoy racing more and I am faster. I used to think and calculate finish times as I raced and more often than not be very critical of my performance as I was racing. Not a very good mind to race in.

The thing is I love numbers and calculating this and that so racing without them was freeing and allowed me to be me and just do my best and trust my race feelings.

My cycling improved a lot this year and tend to be in the top couple women in my AG, and I can’t wait to get stronger next year and I think a power meter will help with that. I tend to think I go to easy on the trainer and power will help me train better when I can’t ride on the roads here in MA.

I think having a power meter will help my coach help me more as he can see what I actually did and give me feedback to do workouts better.

2006-10-23 10:44 AM
in reply to: #571617

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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
Just a quick reminder on this - I have 4 people who want to order an Ergomo and we need one more to make it happen. Email me directly if you are still interested or newly interested by the end of Tuesday and I'll get that order in this week. Thanks gang.


2006-10-23 10:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
I'm interested...and currently searching the closets for stuff I can sell on eBay to scratch up some cash
2006-10-24 6:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
Rocket Man - 2006-10-17 7:49 PM

Boy we are a testy hijacking bunch tonight aren't we?

The thing about training with Power is 200watts is 200watts is 200watts, whether its windy, raining, hot, cold , etc. Power output is affected by the same variables as a HRM. Much more reliable data, especially when doing intervals or threshold work outs.

Unless it's Normalized 200 watts vs. Average 200 watts.  Then it's NOT the same.   

2006-10-24 6:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
coredump - 2006-10-24 4:38 PM
Rocket Man - 2006-10-17 7:49 PM

Boy we are a testy hijacking bunch tonight aren't we?

The thing about training with Power is 200watts is 200watts is 200watts, whether its windy, raining, hot, cold , etc. Power output is affected by the same variables as a HRM. Much more reliable data, especially when doing intervals or threshold work outs.

Unless it's Normalized 200 watts vs. Average 200 watts.  Then it's NOT the same.   

Right, which isn't 200 watts = 200 watts but we assume he means current watts not normalized, right? Nice race Chris, are you going to share your ride data?

2006-10-25 8:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Which Powermeter/best price?
mikericci - 2006-10-24 7:49 PM
coredump - 2006-10-24 4:38 PM
Rocket Man - 2006-10-17 7:49 PM

Boy we are a testy hijacking bunch tonight aren't we?

The thing about training with Power is 200watts is 200watts is 200watts, whether its windy, raining, hot, cold , etc. Power output is affected by the same variables as a HRM. Much more reliable data, especially when doing intervals or threshold work outs.

 

 

Unless it's Normalized 200 watts vs. Average 200 watts.  Then it's NOT the same.   

Right, which isn't 200 watts = 200 watts but we assume he means current watts not normalized, right? Nice race Chris, are you going to share your ride data?

 

The point I was trying to make is that with a reliable measuring device, wattage is much more accurate than HR when training at higher intensities. As has been discussed ad nauseam HR is affected by all kinds of different factors. That being said I still think for base training HR is better.

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