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why we fight
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 2007-01-07 4:32 PM |
molto veloce mama  9311   |  Subject: why we fightEVERYONE SHOULD SEE THIS FILM  my favorite quotes from 'why we fight': "blowback - its a CIA term - blowback does not mean simply the unintended consequences of foreign operations. it means the unintended consequences of foreign operations that were deliberately kept secret from the american public. so that when retaliation comes, the american public is not able to put in context, to put cause and effect together, so that they come up with questions like 'why do they hate us?' our government did not want the forensic question asked 'what were their motives?', and instead chose to say 'they were just evil doers'. - chalmers johnson, former cia, author "This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. " - ike's farewell address (this address is what inspired the film, full address here = http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ike.htm) "we live in the united states of amnesia. no one remembers anything before monday morning." - gore vidal |
 2007-01-07 4:41 PM in reply to: #645455 |
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| 2007-01-07 4:45 PM in reply to: #645466 |
| molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: why we fight this is a very good film. i can't get inside your head and tell you if this will help, or push you further into a funk. i can tell you that this film, and the photo i stumbled upon today, have me ready to take my family to the next peace rally. the message is very much that it is in all our hands, not to sit back and accept what is being done as it is being presented to us. anyway, i got it through blockbuster online, but i also saw it at the store. its on DVD. |
| 2007-01-07 4:53 PM in reply to: #645455 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
| 2007-01-07 4:57 PM in reply to: #645478 |
| molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: why we fight see the film. it is depressing in a similar way as 'an inconvenient truth' is, but also like that film, 'why we fight' ends saying that we each have power to make change...in fact, that nothing will change unless we act with the power we have. |
| 2007-01-08 9:59 AM in reply to: #645478 |
Expert 1103  Plano, TX | Subject: RE: why we fight Lara - 2007-01-07 4:53 PM ... war is very complex and often involves egos, greed, money, resources and power.. it's all stuff my type B mind doesn't wrap around real easily..
The mere fact that you recognize this seemingly simple fact puts you ahead of 98% of the population. Sign up for the free newsletters from www.stratfor.com and you'll start to get a picture of just how complex goepolitics is in the world arena. As a society, we have no idea what a tangled, complex web we live in. |
| 2007-01-08 10:31 AM in reply to: #645455 |
Master 1641  Cambridge, MA | Subject: RE: why we fight It's a movie that is difficult to watch, but illuminating; definitely worth seeing. |
| 2007-01-08 10:56 AM in reply to: #645455 |
| Subject: RE: why we fight To credit davidb for his post on the other thread, if you want a good idea as to "why we fight", this quote should give some idea: One young soldier told me, “This is my family. Colonel Kurilla is like my dad. He would die for me.” (http://michaelyon-online.com/wp/the-battle-for-mosul.htm) |
| 2007-01-08 11:21 AM in reply to: #645455 |
| Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: why we fight This movie is pretty amazing. One of the best doc's I've ever seen. It's a close second to "The Corporation". |
| 2007-01-08 12:32 PM in reply to: #645455 |
| Pro 4578 Vancouver, BC | Subject: RE: why we fight Awesome movie, but I love documentaries. Some others on here saw it too. |
| 2007-01-08 12:39 PM in reply to: #645455 |
| Subject: RE: why we fight I gotta ask, based on the tag line, what's the point of view? Is it Michael Moore-ish in its portrayal? |
| 2007-01-08 12:42 PM in reply to: #646336 |
| molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: why we fight some of the reviews have said its similar to fareinheit 9/11...but w/o the gimmicks. i think this film has more depth than f9/11 did, and fewer jokes. he did not set out to make a film about 9/11 or the war, but wanted to look at ike's statements in relation to the world we are living in (this was prior to 9/11). 9/11 and iraq put case scenarios into his lap. |
| 2007-01-08 12:44 PM in reply to: #646336 |
| Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: why we fight Scout7 - 2007-01-08 10:39 AM I gotta ask, based on the tag line, what's the point of view? Is it Michael Moore-ish in its portrayal? I didn't think so... There is no comedy in it at all and they get some really good interviews. John McCain, Past CIA agents, retired military. It probably appeals more to the left, but it is quite well put together. |
| 2007-01-08 1:00 PM in reply to: #646350 |
| Subject: RE: why we fight Eh. Not my cup of tea. It sounds like some of my classes in college. ETA: Why do you say it appeals more to the left? Is it critical of members of the right? I've met conservatives who are not necessarily for war of any form, and I've met liberals who don't have a problem with the war in Iraq. It would be safer to say that it appeals more for those who don't support military action. Edited by Scout7 2007-01-08 1:02 PM |
| 2007-01-08 1:09 PM in reply to: #646355 |
| molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: why we fight i think you're right that it would probably appeal more to the left...but then its inspiration and center are eisenhower - a 5 star general, and republican president. this SHOULD be watched by both sides. speaking of which, the director, jerecki, says he doesn't believe in the idea of 'red' and 'blue states, as americans have been fed. here's a great map showing the reality of americans' party affiliation: http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/  |
| 2007-01-09 12:55 PM in reply to: #645455 |
| Subject: RE: why we fight Here's a good read.....A letter written by a Marine. http://www.onemarinesview.com/one_marines_view/2007/01/the_secret_lett.html#more Most interesting to me is the Unit with the Highest Reenlistment Rate. |
| 2007-01-09 1:01 PM in reply to: #646384 |
| molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: why we fight let me rephrase - it probably appeals to those who are unhappy with the actions of the current administration, the war, etc. but is worthwhile for everyone to see. he never says we should or shouldn't be at war in iraq, just looks at the connections between military industry and the government, which creates a climate in which going to war is more likely. |
| 2007-01-09 1:19 PM in reply to: #647961 |
| Subject: RE: why we fight I wasn't attempting to refute the movie, or people's definitions of what it is. I was just throwing out some additional reading that I thought would be appreciated by the group. |
| 2007-01-09 1:28 PM in reply to: #647945 |
| Pro 4040 | Subject: RE: why we fight Scout7 - 2007-01-09 1:55 PM Here's a good read.....A letter written by a Marine. http://www.onemarinesview.com/one_marines_view/2007/01/the_secret_lett.html#more Most interesting to me is the Unit with the Highest Reenlistment Rate. That is a good read. Makes me sad that the motivation for all of that work was cynical geopolitics and that there is almost no way to resolve this war well. I was happy to be vindicated on my low opinion of Bill O'Reilly. I've always thought he was full of sh!t, and now a marine in Iraq has confirmed it. |
| 2007-01-09 1:39 PM in reply to: #647999 |
| Subject: RE: why we fight Opus, I got a slightly different feel from it. Mostly that there IS hope, and that none of the news reports, from either side, get the story even remotely right. The part where he was talking about the Iraqi police says a lot. The police know they're going to be targeted, yet they STILL go to work, they still have people lining up to become cops. That shows that the people really do want things to change, and to improve. O'Reilly, in my opinion, isn't a news show at all, anyway. But then, neither is Franken, Limbaugh, or any of those other talking heads. I also like the part where he talks about the VIP visits. Dog and pony show so the senators can say "I've BEEN there", then proceed to get everything completely wrong anyway. |
| 2007-01-09 2:56 PM in reply to: #648018 |
| Pro 4040 | Subject: RE: why we fight Scout7 - 2007-01-09 2:39 PM Opus, I got a slightly different feel from it. Mostly that there IS hope, and that none of the news reports, from either side, get the story even remotely right. The part where he was talking about the Iraqi police says a lot. The police know they're going to be targeted, yet they STILL go to work, they still have people lining up to become cops. That shows that the people really do want things to change, and to improve. O'Reilly, in my opinion, isn't a news show at all, anyway. But then, neither is Franken, Limbaugh, or any of those other talking heads. I also like the part where he talks about the VIP visits. Dog and pony show so the senators can say "I've BEEN there", then proceed to get everything completely wrong anyway. My question is: There is hope for what? Was there ever any doubt that there are good people who want peace in Iraq? Good people who just want people to stop the killing? The troops are trying to re-establish order in the middle of a civil war. On an individual basis they effect change by catching insurgents, but there is not nearly enough of them and I don't think there could ever be enough of them. I'll bet you the vast majority of Iraqis want peace. I mean 99.5% of Iraqis want to just live their lives quietly and safely. That remaining .5%, though, have the power to seriously fcuk things up for the rest of them. It took, what, 18 guys to turn NYC upside down? Where is the hope? EDIT: P.S. - RE: Bill O'Reilly. I just liked the fact that somebody who claims to be such a big booster of the troops is identified as the worst offender in spreading disinformation about Iraq. Edited by Opus 2007-01-09 3:01 PM |
| 2007-01-09 3:46 PM in reply to: #648151 |
| Subject: RE: why we fight I guess, to me, the hope lies in the fact that there are still people willing to work towards a peaceful and free Iraq. I understand where you're coming from. It's hard to find the hope to continue on in the face of such anger, hatred, and adversity. But someone's got to. Otherwise, what's the point of any endeavor? I imagine this is what the British felt like, to some extent, during WWII when they were getting bombed constantly. Autumn, sorry for hijacking your thread..... |
| 2007-01-09 6:10 PM in reply to: #648231 |
| molto veloce mama 9311 | Subject: RE: why we fight no apologies needed. its an interesting discussion. and i totally agree about bill o'jacka$$. and i also think there is hope. not to be a total dork, but i was watching 'lord of the rings' this weekend (hey, i've had the flu for a week...and i have nothing better to do than watch 10 hours of pete jackson). anyway, i was thinking about the lines about how men (humans) are weak, and easily corruptible, but that that is where middle earth had to place its hope and trust. i feel the same way about this war. there are many involved who have been corrupted and are weak, but many others who are worthy of our hope and trust. okay, dork moment over (at least we can hope). |
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