General Discussion Triathlon Talk » I need to run faster.... Rss Feed  
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2007-05-22 5:40 AM

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Subject: I need to run faster....

I did my first sprint triathlon last weekend. I really enjoyed every second of it but the splits show that the run is my weakness. People who swam and cycled at about my pace typically did the 3miles about 2.5 minutes quicker.

My goal is to work towards an 8 minute mile for the Olympic distance leg of a triathlon - I ran at about 8.03 pace for the sprint but my heart rate averaged 177 (started at 165 and gradually increased to 185 over the course of the three miles) so I don't think I could keep that up for double the distance (max HR is about 190)

My rather crude plan is to have three runs a week. One hard run - 15 minute warm up slow jog, 30 minutes of intervals (hard for a minute, recover 'jog' for a minute) and a 15 minute slow jog warm down. The second a longer slow run for around 90 minutes and the third a 10k tempo run - not flat out but breathing hardish.


Has anyone got any advice on how this plan can be refined, or binned for something more useful?

Thanks



2007-05-22 6:29 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
I would suggest searching forumns for Heart Rate based training.  I have never done it (but need to start) but most people swear by it.  Basically you have to go slower to get faster. 
2007-05-22 7:29 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
Personally I recommend doing some track workouts. Get some 400, 600, & 800's in if you feel your base is solid.
2007-05-22 7:52 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....

Run more.  Not faster, just more.

You have entirely too much focus on speed work, not enough on aerobic ability.  Run at a steadier pace, more often.  I'd say at least 4 times a week, 5 would be better.  2 shorter, 1-2 medium length, 1 long. 

2007-05-22 7:55 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
That plan might work but more than likely you will quickly plateau and may end up injured. Training is about apply the appropriate stress to the system, allowing time for recovery and then applying another stress. In general, running three times a week is not going to be enough to improve significantly and the sessions you have listed will probably be too much stress for a novice runner.

You have a silver membership, have a look through the plans on the site, a structured plan can hlep you develop your speed throughout the season.

If you want to do some reading, here's a link to a post from SlowTwitch that has some really good info. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1038855;search_string=r...

Shane
2007-05-22 8:09 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
I don't know enough to give specifics, I'll just echo the thought that you may be taking on too much speed work.  Slow down, gradually increase your volume.  Run lots.  This formula worked for me.  I do more than 95% of my running at 9-10 min mile pace but I've gotten faster over time.

Edited by hangloose 2007-05-22 8:10 AM


2007-05-22 8:19 AM
in reply to: #811292

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
Scout7 - 2007-05-22 7:52 AM

Run more.  Not faster, just more.

You have entirely too much focus on speed work, not enough on aerobic ability.  Run at a steadier pace, more often.  I'd say at least 4 times a week, 5 would be better.  2 shorter, 1-2 medium length, 1 long. 

Amen to that.  I trained for a 50K last year and I actually saw my speed improve because on my long runs it was about consistancy and keeping my hr down.  Train for a longer race half-mary or full-mary and see your times improve.
2007-05-22 9:14 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
I can only speak from personal experience, but I would echo the comments on looking at the plans available here, especially the HR based plans.  I followed the run focused, winter maintenance plan which is almost exclusively Z1/Z2 runs of varying times, typically 4 times per week.  My first 5K of the year last month I completed 2 minutes faster than my last one in December.  I did maybe 2 or 3 interval sessions leading up to this race.  I was a skeptic that this would help the speed, but needed to build the base anyways, so I did the plan and it worked.  I am now doing a combination marathon/olympic plan and again, the bulk of the running runs are Z1/Z2.  I am not an expert, so I'll trust those that are that put these plans together.
2007-05-22 9:16 AM
in reply to: #811252

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
arieth81 - 2007-05-22 9:29 AM

Personally I recommend doing some track workouts. Get some 400, 600, & 800's in if you feel your base is solid.


Why?
2007-05-22 9:45 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
I echo the HR training recomendations, my coach had me doing speedwork withing that HR training. I think your "speed workout" is too long to start with and you will make yourself tired, and not reap the benefits of speed work.

Here is a sample speed workout in a brick:
Bike 30 minutes - Big Ring, 95-100 RPM
Run 20' - 10' easy, 5' alternating 30" pick up w/ 30" easy, 5' easy cool down
I did this on a treadmill, with my base easy being 10' miles and the pick ups being 8 minutes then getting faster each time. So 1-8:00, 2-7:45, 3-7:30, 4-7:15, 5-7:00 then back down to 10 which felt really slow, so I started to bump that up too. You can then bump up the interval time, or the speed, but not both!

You can also turn this into a hill workout. With each interval ncreasing in grade, but not speed.
Or a big brick: 15 bike, 15 run; 15 bike, 15 run; 15 bike 15 run each run getting faster by 15"-30" per mile.

I took these base workouts and expanded them throughout my ironman training. Its a great workout and makes you faster. I also do a long run, with my HR around 155 and a tempo run about a 10K distance where I go for time. I can only run 3x a week. I do most of my HR training on the bike because it was very, very hard to keep my HR so low at first. Now I can do it, no problem.

I also lost weight and saw my base mileage time drop from a 10' mile to 9'-8'.

Yes, just running a lot will make you faster eventually, but you need to be able to run 8:00 miles off a bike, so that is how you should train. Teaching your body to transition between biking and running is crucial to running fast, especially in a sprint tri.
Good Luck!

Edited by jeanneroth 2007-05-22 9:51 AM
2007-05-22 10:42 AM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....

Thanks a lot for the input people - some really interesting stuff in there.

I'm going to up the frequency and the durations at a lower intensity for now and keeping building that foundation.



2007-05-22 1:03 PM
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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
Scout7 - 2007-05-22 8:52 AM

Run more. Not faster, just more.

You have entirely too much focus on speed work, not enough on aerobic ability. Run at a steadier pace, more often. I'd say at least 4 times a week, 5 would be better. 2 shorter, 1-2 medium length, 1 long.



Agree with Scout. Make sure you have a solid base first.
2007-05-22 2:11 PM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
I think track workouts are key into making you a really strong runner, well and tempo runs. But you really do need a base(let's say 20-25miles/week or so, comfortable) built up before you can start doing them regulary and seeing fitness improvement from them.

Just doing base running(long and slow) will work. You're building up endurance so you will be able to push harder on shorter courses. But if you really do have to get out there and build strength in your legs to get quick, not just hammering out miles at comfortable pace. Though these type of runs will always make up the majority of your running work-outs, but a speed workout once a week is a good thing. It really is a good combination of both.

Easy runs(slower then long runs and shorter), long runs and speed work.

I my self love my track work-outs, one of my favorite things during the week.

Edited by smilford 2007-05-22 2:14 PM
2007-05-22 4:03 PM
in reply to: #811166

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Subject: RE: I need to run faster....
Check out this article:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/slow-training.htm

Lots of interesting reading material on that site actually.
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