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Do you just have "it" or not? (Page 8)
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 2007-05-25 1:57 PM in reply to: #814012 |
Pro  3906     Libertyville, IL |  Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not?I think there is another variable in this being a sport for many middle age folks and up in that how much damage have you done throughout your life eating, drinking, smoking, etc, etc, that needs to be undone the best you can. For folks that may not have had those years or decades or whatever, its probably easier to get up and at it. |
| 2007-05-25 2:06 PM in reply to: #817390 |
Not a Coach 11473  Media, PA | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? TriMike - 2007-05-25 1:55 PM Morey 1 is saying what I've unsuccessfully been trying to articulate. Johnny K, I have a scenario for you: If you take 100 men, all aged 35-39, all weighing 200 pounds, all workout about the same, three runs, three bikes, three swims per week. Nutrition is very similar too, then you take those same 100 men and give them coaching (for the sake of my example the coaching is good), and after say six months time, are all 100 going to see the same dramatic improvements in their workouts? Or is it possible some may break down with the intensity, some may just have marginal improvements, and some may start winning events? My point is, there's no 100% to anything in training, and all I was trying to point out at the very beginning is that there are people who recognize their genetic restraints and they aren't wrong for not proving it to others by upping the training intensity to the point where it may no longer be fun for them. Read my reply to morey. This is a completely seperate topic not being discussed here. Just because the path may be different for some people does not mean they can't reach the destination. And most people have no idea what their "genetic restraints" are. I certainly don't. But I don't expect people to try to discover it if it's not fun for them. |
| 2007-05-25 2:10 PM in reply to: #814012 |
Master 1699 Malvern, PA | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? |
| 2007-05-25 2:12 PM in reply to: #817410 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? maxmattmick - 2007-05-25 2:10 PM John... have you gotten any work done today? Not much...very quiet here. Leaving for long weeekend now. |
| 2007-05-25 2:13 PM in reply to: #817390 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? TriMike, I agree with your scenario. However, what some of us have been saying is that, given proper training, nutrition, will, and time, most people can achieve much more than they do. The limiting factors more often than not are going to be time and dedication, rather than genetic. Take those same people, modify the training over time to match each individual, and given enough time, I'm sure that they can all meet their goals. |
| 2007-05-25 2:14 PM in reply to: #814012 |
Master 1699 Malvern, PA | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? me too... have a good one... we gotta get together for dinner with the families with brian... |
| 2007-05-25 2:14 PM in reply to: #814012 |
| Extreme Veteran 437 | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? If you say it is mostly genetics and train that way you will be correct. If you say it is mostly training and you train that way you will be correct. |
| 2007-05-25 2:25 PM in reply to: #817403 |
Elite 2673 Muskego, WI | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? JohnnyKay - 2007-05-25 2:06 PM TriMike - 2007-05-25 1:55 PM Morey 1 is saying what I've unsuccessfully been trying to articulate. Johnny K, I have a scenario for you: If you take 100 men, all aged 35-39, all weighing 200 pounds, all workout about the same, three runs, three bikes, three swims per week. Nutrition is very similar too, then you take those same 100 men and give them coaching (for the sake of my example the coaching is good), and after say six months time, are all 100 going to see the same dramatic improvements in their workouts? Or is it possible some may break down with the intensity, some may just have marginal improvements, and some may start winning events? My point is, there's no 100% to anything in training, and all I was trying to point out at the very beginning is that there are people who recognize their genetic restraints and they aren't wrong for not proving it to others by upping the training intensity to the point where it may no longer be fun for them. Read my reply to morey. This is a completely seperate topic not being discussed here. Just because the path may be different for some people does not mean they can't reach the destination. And most people have no idea what their "genetic restraints" are. I certainly don't. But I don't expect people to try to discover it if it's not fun for them. JohnnyKay, I think we are closer than I thought on this. After a lot of thought on this I'll concede my using limiting statements on myself is not productive. Somehow this thread has made me belive that "if I wanted to" I could BQ. I did not feel that way before. Kona, I'd probably literally have to quit my job to do it, but I suppose, again, biologically I'll accept that with enough years I could do that too. As long as you concede the paths to these levels are dramatically different for everyone, which I believe you've conceded. I'm not sure others feel that way, but that was REALLY my original point. Some people have "it" and their trajectory is different than mine, which will require grave efforts on my part. (again, not minimizing the efforts of others, just stating that my trajectory would be steep, esp. for Kona). As for trimike, I think he has a point. Being 5'8", 160-165, I can at least start on a platform of good size/strength ratio. But I'll give you again, with effort, TriMike can reach whatever goal he wants as well. Or, at least sniff it. Have a good weekend. Thanks for helping me see the light, esp on BQ. |
| 2007-05-25 2:36 PM in reply to: #814083 |
Elite 3067 Cheesehead, WI | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? Wow...tons of replies on this already. I guess for me, it's highly unlikely I'll ever do an 6 or 7 min. mile. I'd be astonished to do a 9 min mile! Same goes for the other sports. I'm not fast by many standards, but I've surpassed what I started out as. Maybe that is why I like tris too in that you can still do them and not have to 'place'. At least at my level, there are no cut offs and my goal is to finish. Ok, so maybe now after a year I want to 'place' in my ag in a sprint...but finish an oly if I do one of those later this summer (shhhhh... don't want to say that too loud cuz not sure I'm physically up for it yet). I'd say genes play a big part but also sheer determination. Now, not sure if determination will get first place, but it will beat a gifted lazy gene if they aren't training to their fullest potential. |
| 2007-05-25 2:48 PM in reply to: #814999 |
| Extreme Veteran 437 | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? the bear - 2007-05-24 10:33 AM Scout7 - 2007-05-24 9:29 AM the bear - 2007-05-24 10:25 AM Scout7 - 2007-05-24 9:17 AM Anyone can qualify for Boston, but they need to put in the training. I don't think there's a person out there who can't physically accomplish that, barring physical disabilities. I've been around enough people who have been training long, hard, and smart toward that goal to know that this isn't so. Again, if you have objective eidence to suport that statement, I'd love to see it. Long, hard, and smart by who's standards? Maybe their training isn't smart for them. Maybe they need to train more, or in a different fashion. Primarily Pfitzinger and Douglas. Some of them have been personally coached by qualified individuals. But I'm not the one making the generalization. Can you support your statement? I agree 100% I know guys who can smoke 95% of the others in the pool and on the bike but have tried for YEARS to qualify for Boston and just can NOT do it. They are on the downside of the age hill and it looks hopeless for them. These are people who have access to any trainers they want and the funds to take off as much time as they need to from their businesses. If you don't have 'it' you don't have it. |
| 2008-08-25 2:38 PM in reply to: #814012 |
Expert 784 Computerland | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? I am just bumping this post because I found it extremely intresting and motivating. I was kind of thinking this topic sounds a lot like school work. Some students are natuarally smart, and can get "As" on tests without even studying. Others can get good grades, but really have to study for them. There are also some people that are natually not that bright, but still work really hard and are at least able to be a "C" student. There are also people who have are smart and have the potential to get really good grades, but slack off and may get "Ds" at best. I think triathlon is a lot like school, or like any other endevor. Talent accounts a lot for how high your potential is, but talent is nothing without hard work. |
 2008-08-25 5:41 PM in reply to: #814012 |
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| 2008-08-25 5:46 PM in reply to: #814012 |
| Expert 724 Simi Valley | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? The third recommended video when yours comes up is a lesson from Buckethead. Solid company. The Big Dog approves!  |
| 2008-08-25 5:50 PM in reply to: #1626994 |
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| 2008-08-25 6:17 PM in reply to: #814012 |
| Extreme Veteran 555 | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? Great thread! I just read through the first 4 pages, and wanted to share my experiences.. I'm 29, Just started running last year. I'm an all or nothing kinda guy, so when I started running I did it pretty consistently (although I had no clue on how to train, I just ran and sometimes too fast, which caused injuries). I did a 10k a few months after starting and finished in 49:19 which is a pretty respectable time for a first 10k but I did put in the time as best I could back then and I ran my heart out. Fast forward to this year where I learned the basics on training and again stayed CONSISTENT, running wether it be in cold,dark,rain, or snow I always made it out to meet my planned mileage. I missed a lot of parties and going out with friends and family because I REALLY wanted to improve my running. Just this past weekend (just over a year from my first 10k I clocked a 41:29 on a harder course on a hotter day. Do I have "IT"? I don't think so, did I train consistently and make sacrafices so I was sure to improve? Yes. I don't know what the future holds for me but If I keep it up I'm only gonna get better. I think you have to WANT it, and be willing to do what ever it takes to get to your goal to reach it. |
| 2008-08-25 6:30 PM in reply to: #814012 |
| Master 1848 Canandaigua | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? http://beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=805 That put's in perspective for me. |
| 2008-08-25 7:33 PM in reply to: #815271 |
| Expert 966 Decatur | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? scoobysdad - 2007-05-24 12:37 PM In my prep for my first HIM, I have been putting in 8 - 13 hour weeks, focusing on more LSD. In my first 3 years, I was doing only sprints and Oly's, and my runs were more of the 35 - min. variety. Now I'm following a BT HIM plan, and I usually have one weekly run of at least the 2-hour variety. I realize this sort of training will not get me to Top 10% of my AG. And as I stated I have seen improvements. But the fact is, I just finished 123/168 in my AG-- a little worse than I've fared in the past. True, I had a disastrous run at this particular race. But even with a run i know I'm capable of right now I might have finished 105/168. That's not real inspiring for any hope of ever finishing Top 10%. That's just being realistic. I suspect I do not have "IT" for this sport because I was always a slower kid growing up, always struggled with windsprints, runs around the field, etc. in comparison to other kids. I could always make up for these deficiencies in other sports by having very good hand-eye coordination and through lots of extra practice. In this sport, those deficiencies are impossible to cover up. As further evidence, I know people who have come to this sport later than I did, put in less training than I do, and yet still finish significantly faster. Thanks to BT, I can also look at the logs of others and see plenty of people who work less and perform better. I also think part of the "IT" factor is having the sheer natural ability to put in more training time. Right now, I simply couldn't put in more time because my workouts leave me exhausted, sore and in need of recovery. I suspect part of "IT" is the ability to recover faster tahn others. Some of that surely comes with better fitness, but I think it's also in large part genetic. JohnnyKay - 2007-05-24 11:07 AM So, define 3 years of "decent" training. Define the "ramp up" in your training volume. What have you done to improve? What have you focused on?Unless you're already near your limits (which isn't possible given your stated background), anyone will see improvement if they do the work. How would you even know if you had "it" or not?
I think you have "it". I think you just need to give it time. And in reference to people training less and passing you - everyone doesn't start at the same level. Some people have to work at it. You are one of those people. YOU will have to work at it. I bet if you keep your level of training up for another 3 years you'll look back and read this laughing. Print it out and keep it. I dare you. I will be one of those people that has to work at it. Hell, I've already been told to stop running by someone on this board. Pissed me off more than anything. I hate being told "you can't". But I fully intend to run an 7-8 minute mile one day. (currently new at a 15 and proud of it!) |
| 2008-08-26 10:12 AM in reply to: #1627217 |
| Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Do you just have "it" or not? latrina - 2008-08-25 7:33 PM I think you have "it". I think you just need to give it time. Well, it's been about 18 months since I began this thread so maybe it's time for an update. In that time, I've done 3 HIMs, along with several Oly's and Sprints. I've put in about the same volume of training over the course of the past two years, although I had to take several months off from running last winter completely due to an ankle injury. My annual volume over the last two years has been around: Bike: 3300 miles Run: 650 miles Swim: 130 K yards This year, I gained 24 minutes at the same HIM over the previous year, with similar conditions (although I went from a road bike to a tri bike.) I also paced myself significantly better this year, having learned from my previous HIM experiences. My finish time was around 5:48:XX. I think that put me somewhere around the the 70th-percentile for my AG (M 40 - 44), up about 10% from last year. In shorter distance races, I beat most of my times from last year at the same events, but still finished around 30th-percentile in my AG. This is my 5th year of tri-training. I really don't see any evidence I'm capable of shooting up the rankings into the FOP, but I'm totally fine with that. My goal is still to just keep improving on my previous times. Next year, I will be attempting my first full IM. My training volume and time will have to increase dramatically, and I am currently trying to clear my schedule for that. I have also hired a very reputable coach. Will those moves result in significantly higher rankings in shorter distance events? Probably. Top 10% of my AG? Not a chance. But I guess we'll see... |
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