General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Completed my first Oly...observations and questions Rss Feed  
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2007-06-05 6:42 AM

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Subject: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions

I finished Over the Mountain!  First off, I set a time goal without seeing the course.  Big mistake.  I am a lousy swimmer.  In training I average 2min43sec/100m.  Yes, that slow.  This was my first long-distance OWS, and my swim time was 44:37.  241/247 males.  Ugh.  I'm 34 years old, and ought to be able to swim faster than that!  I have requested help from a friend/training partner and current high-school swim coach, who was also a college swimmer.  So, the rest of the summer will be focused on improving the swim and maintaining the bike.

Question 1: What causes a severe headache and nausea after about 30 minutes on the swim?

The bike course was challenging (Over the Mountain in Kings Mountain, NC), but I did okay on that.  I started having a noise on the bike about 2/3 through the ride, and eased off on the hills to "nurse" it home.  Missed my projected average speed, but probably hit my true expected pace.  Not too upset with that performance.

My run suffered greatly though, and I think it was nutrition that failed me.  I'll outline my fueling plan in a second.  The run was a two-loop out and back.  I have been training in the 7:30-7:50 range on the run, and in the 7:45-8:15 range if the run follows a long bike.  I turned in a 9:18 pace for this 10k, my worst performance in 2 years.  Again, this was my first olympic distance, so I can't be too upset.  But my first leg out was a 13:07, which I considered an easy pace for 1.55 miles (about an 8:25).  I developed a huge cramp in my left side, and it would never clear out.  No amount of stride change, arm change, breathing change, etc. would let me get a full breath and beat this cramp.  Therefore, the 13:07 was my fastest leg (followed it with a 15:15, 14:40, and 14:39).

Here was my nutrition for the day.  Race time was 8:00am.

5am wake up. 

5:15 1 banana, 12 oz. apple juice, 4 fig newtons (figure 180 for the banana, 120 for the apple juice, 220 for the fig newtons, for 520 total calories)

6:45-7:30 1 water bottle with 1 scoop Hammer HEED mixed in (another 200 calories)

7:00 1 powerbar (this is where I think I started to go wrong, too close to race time) (another 200 calories)

9:00 (during T1) a couple of swigs of vanilla Gu mixed in water (perhaps 25 calories)

9-10:30 during the bike 1.25 water bottles with 1.5 scoops Hammer HEED mixed in (300 calories over 1.5 hours)

9:40 one Gu about 5 minutes before an expected long climb (100 calories)

10:10 during the bike 3-4 Shot Bloks followed by water about 5 minutes before an expected steep climb (100+/- calories)

10:30-11:30 during the run, an 8 oz. run flask with an orange Gu mixed in, water at the first and every other aid station on .75 mile intervals (water at 0, 1.5, 3, 4.5 miles), and Cytomax at second and every other aid station (.75, 2.25, 3.75, 5.25 miles).  Usually just a few swigs of water or cytomax, I was never sloshing.  (maybe took in 150 calories total on the run)

Question 2: Was this WAY too much hydration/nutrition? 

 



Edited by fgump 2007-06-05 7:12 AM


2007-06-05 6:53 AM
in reply to: #829935

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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
That is a ton of calories for an event of that length...more like what you would take in for a HIM. Scale that way back. Maybe a Gu right before the swim, and then one mid-way through the bike. How long were you out there total?

The headache and nausea could be caused my motion sickness or just an exertion headache.
2007-06-05 7:00 AM
in reply to: #829935

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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
Also, congrats on your first Oly. It's a learning experience and now you're more prepared next time
2007-06-05 7:10 AM
in reply to: #829935

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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
fgump - 2007-06-05 6:42 AM

I finished Over the Mountain! 

Question 1: What causes a severe headache and nausea after about 30 minutes on the swim? 

 You have no idea how funny (sort of) this question is to me.  During my OLY swim last summer I got off track, trying to sight into the sun, and swam head first into a swim platform alongside the course giving myself a concussion that had me out of it for a few days.  So my answer would be "a dock or other large stationary object in the water" but your results may vary.

Question 2: Was this WAY too much hydration/nutrition? 

Yes.  What was your overall goal time and is that how much you take in for workouts that are the same length?  If so, your training must cost you a fortune!

2007-06-05 7:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions

Thanks for your reply.  I went back through and totaled up the intake (from wakeup time to end of the race) and it comes in at like 1595 calories.  Pre-race intake was 920 calories, so during the 3:15:47 of the race, I took in 675 calories.  I usually train with approx. 200/hour intake, so 200 x 3.25 would be 650 calories during the event.  I know it seems excessive, but I started the season at 183 lbs., and was 163 on race day, so the nutrition plan is still under construction.  Swim time was 44min, bike time 1:28:11, run time 57:00.

Appreciate any and all constructive criticism

2007-06-05 7:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
hangloose - 2007-06-05 8:10 AM
fgump - 2007-06-05 6:42 AM

I finished Over the Mountain! 

Question 1: What causes a severe headache and nausea after about 30 minutes on the swim? 

 You have no idea how funny (sort of) this question is to me.  During my OLY swim last summer I got off track, trying to sight into the sun, and swam head first into a swim platform alongside the course giving myself a concussion that had me out of it for a few days.  So my answer would be "a dock or other large stationary object in the water" but your results may vary.

Question 2: Was this WAY too much hydration/nutrition? 

Yes.  What was your overall goal time and is that how much you take in for workouts that are the same length?  If so, your training must cost you a fortune!

Headache/nausea were not caused by impact with any immobile object   That did look funny, now that I read it again.

Overall goal time was 3:00, but I had not actually seen the bike course.  I had planned on 1:24 on the bike, and I got 1:28.  The swim time was about what I expected based on my current ability.  The run course is where I missed my mark completely, by about 10 minutes.  I usually take in about 200 calories/hour, which is mostly in Hammer HEED bottles and/or Gu gels.



2007-06-05 7:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
I generally only take in 200-300 cals for an entire Oly. You don't want to shunt blood to your gut to digest calories on a race that is short enought that you should be going pretty close to your LT for most of it.

Also, taking a couple shot blocks or a gel right before a climb is not going to do anything for your performance up that particular climb. I just mention it because it seemed like that's what you were going for.

Edited by sebjamesm 2007-06-05 7:28 AM
2007-06-05 7:32 AM
in reply to: #829965

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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
fgump - 2007-06-05 7:19 AM

Pre-race intake was 920 calories, so during the 3:15:47 of the race, I took in 675 calories.  I usually train with approx. 200/hour intake, so 200 x 3.25 would be 650 calories during the event.  

Your race intake may seem on the high side, but if that's how you train with no issues then so be it.  I understand that.  But, what was the 920 for?  I had a diet coke and a clif bar before my OLY.  Not that I should be anybody's standard to follow in ANYTHING, but that seems like a crazy amount of calories before a race.  Even an Ironman!

2007-06-05 7:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions

Congrats on completing your first OLY! 

I don't have much to offer on the swim headache or nutrition/hydration. 

Sounds like your OLY goal was 3:00 and you finished in 3:15.  You set the goal before you saw the course.  When did you set your goal?  Did setting the goal change your training strategy?  How?  If you set the goal a few days prior to the race, then think of it more like an expectation as there really wasn't a chance to change your behavior prior to the race.  So you missed your expected finish time by 15 minutes (?)...I'll bet you can still find people who love and adore you.  You still have a job to pay your mortgage.  You don't lose the title "triathlete" simply because you miss a finish time (or even fail to finish a race).  

Are you going to do the race again next year?  If so, what things will you do differently 3-4 months prior to the race? 

2007-06-05 8:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions

I'm not going to comment on nutrition since I am a walking example of nutrition errors during races.

That being said, I took a look at your logs, mainly in May.  Congratulations on some excellent training!  That being said, what I personally see missing is a weekly long run.  By long, given your obvious fitness level and commitment, I think of 10 or more miles.  Your race is fairly similar to my first oly a few years ago, and if I can point to one thing that has improved my fitness more than any other, it's committing to a weekly run of AT LEAST 10-miles.  I haven't been perfect, but I've been close.

I believe you faded because you need that long run in your aresenal to get your legs used to long efforts.  I know you've got some juicy bike rides in there, but it's not the same.

Again, exceptional training and I'm not knocking you at all.   If I missed long runs in other months, I apologize, I only looked in May.  Again, no reason you shouldn't have been doing them through at least part of May anyway.

2007-06-05 8:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
McFuzz - 2007-06-05 8:53 AM

Congrats on completing your first OLY! 

I don't have much to offer on the swim headache or nutrition/hydration. 

Sounds like your OLY goal was 3:00 and you finished in 3:15.  You set the goal before you saw the course.  When did you set your goal?  Did setting the goal change your training strategy?  How?  If you set the goal a few days prior to the race, then think of it more like an expectation as there really wasn't a chance to change your behavior prior to the race.  So you missed your expected finish time by 15 minutes (?)...I'll bet you can still find people who love and adore you.  You still have a job to pay your mortgage.  You don't lose the title "triathlete" simply because you miss a finish time (or even fail to finish a race).  

Are you going to do the race again next year?  If so, what things will you do differently 3-4 months prior to the race? 

Actually, I did not decide to do this race until May 7th, one day after finishing my most recent sprint.  I had planned on my first olympic being in August, but my wife did not want me training through the summer and being frustrated by missing training days due to vacations, etc.  So, I prepped for this race in 3 weeks.  I followed a plan that a friend provided for me.  My goal was set arbitrarily based on expected average performance and distance, without having actually checked out the bike or run courses. 

I am not disappointed in the time; I am disappointed in my nutrition plan.  I planned for 20mph on a course with somewhat similar terrain to what I train on, but not after swimming for 45 minutes...I planned for 8:00 miles on a course with 4 somewhat significant climbs, that I normally do in the 7:45 range, but not after swimming for 45 minutes BEFORE cycling 90 minutes. 

And yes, I plan to do this one again.  Being my first oly, I had a lot to learn, and learn I did.  My swim will improve.  My bike will improve.  My run will improve.  I'll make my nutrition work for me better.



2007-06-05 8:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions

In response to:

I'm not going to comment on nutrition since I am a walking example of nutrition errors during races.

That being said, I took a look at your logs, mainly in May.  Congratulations on some excellent training!  That being said, what I personally see missing is a weekly long run.  By long, given your obvious fitness level and commitment, I think of 10 or more miles.  Your race is fairly similar to my first oly a few years ago, and if I can point to one thing that has improved my fitness more than any other, it's committing to a weekly run of AT LEAST 10-miles.  I haven't been perfect, but I've been close.

I believe you faded because you need that long run in your aresenal to get your legs used to long efforts.  I know you've got some juicy bike rides in there, but it's not the same.

Again, exceptional training and I'm not knocking you at all.   If I missed long runs in other months, I apologize, I only looked in May.  Again, no reason you shouldn't have been doing them through at least part of May anyway.

Thanks for your reply, and for the comments on the logs.  My training plan did not call for a run longer than 60 minutes at any point during training.  I got in two ~8 mile runs in the last two weeks, and felt very good on those.  I will be bringing my run distance up now however (planning on a half-marathon in November).

This was a compressed race prep, due to a last-minute decision to do the race.  Ideally, I would have liked for my swim to have been much further along before doing this race.

Again, thanks for the comments and suggestions.



Edited by fgump 2007-06-05 8:28 AM
2007-06-05 8:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions

In response to:

I generally only take in 200-300 cals for an entire Oly. You don't want to shunt blood to your gut to digest calories on a race that is short enought that you should be going pretty close to your LT for most of it.

Also, taking a couple shot blocks or a gel right before a climb is not going to do anything for your performance up that particular climb. I just mention it because it seemed like that's what you were going for.

I think you hit the nail on the head.  I think my gut shut down on me and I cramped, from too many unconsumed calories.  The gels/shot bloks I took were more for timing to take effect after the climbs, as I felt I was going to need something on the other side of them.  I will be scaling it back for the next event. 

Also, I think I might have listened too closely to the advice at the local tri store about calorie needs on this race. 



Edited by fgump 2007-06-05 8:36 AM
2007-06-05 8:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
hangloose - 2007-06-05 8:32 AM
fgump - 2007-06-05 7:19 AM

Pre-race intake was 920 calories, so during the 3:15:47 of the race, I took in 675 calories.  I usually train with approx. 200/hour intake, so 200 x 3.25 would be 650 calories during the event.  

Your race intake may seem on the high side, but if that's how you train with no issues then so be it.  I understand that.  But, what was the 920 for?  I had a diet coke and a clif bar before my OLY.  Not that I should be anybody's standard to follow in ANYTHING, but that seems like a crazy amount of calories before a race.  Even an Ironman!

Thanks for your replies and suggestions.  To be honest, I'm not sure why 920.  I think I was just nervous that I was going to run out of gas. 

I always eat a banana before a race, and had 12 oz. of apple juice before my last sprint with good results (same nutrition plan basically on that race, without the gels or bloks, since it was just a 14 mile flat loop), and still felt a little hungry so had 3-4 fig newtons at 5:15am.  I always drink a bottle HEED between breakfast and race start.  The powerbar is what sent me over the edge on calorie load at the front end.  So typical race morning breakfast is usually 600-700 calories.  My next race will probably be a sprint, so all this is moot, but the race after that will likely be my first 1/2 IM (in 2008), so it will become important again .

Thanks again.

2007-06-05 8:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Completed my first Oly...observations and questions
fgump - 2007-06-05 8:27 AM

 the local tri store

Also known as "vendor".  As in, a business that needs to sell things in order to stay in business.   (I'm saying this tongue in cheek because I've gotten some great help from local tri stores, I just make sure to take their recommendations keeping their interests in mind.)

I hope my comments didn't come across as too pointed.  I rudely forgot to say congrats on your first OLY!  It's a great accomplishment.  I'm very proud of mine even though it didn't go exactly the way I thought it would either.  I think, in time, you'll find that the oddities of the day are what you remember as much as anything else, so relish them.

Also, morey1 converted me to his weekly long run philosophy and I've stuck with it since last fall except for when I've been sick or currently nursing a calf injury.  No matter what training plan I'm ever doing I'll always get in a 10 miler (minimum) once per week.  It helps a lot, both physically and mentally.

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