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can a religious cross be copyrighted?
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 2007-10-03 1:12 PM |
Extreme Veteran  465  |  Subject: can a religious cross be copyrighted?One that I got off the internet when I did a google image search of "cross" My son is getting baptized Sunday, and I thought it would be nice to have a cross on his sheet cake, simple and elegant. Went to my local Wal-mart, and they said no way would they put this particular cross on the cake because of copyright issues. Now folks, this is just a simple cross, where at the end of each point of the cross it just bubbles out three times, now that I am sitting here typing this, totally something I could do, just thought I would get something off the internet that was neat and tidy for them, rather then my rendition. I then asked the lady if I could go out to my car, make my "own cross" wink, wink (I don't think she thought that was funny), and just change this one up a bit, make is larger. She said no, that cross is copyrighted and mine would have to be completely different. I then said "this is not the only rendition of this particular cross in the world" She would not budge. I told her to just forget it and left. I'm probably in the wrong, and Wal-Mart want's to walk the legal straight line, but just seems so uptight. Edited by shadowfax 2007-10-03 1:13 PM |
| 2007-10-03 1:18 PM in reply to: #989912 |
Regular 142 Fort Collins, CO | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? I would guess that it's not the cross that has the copyright, but the image itself. |
| 2007-10-03 1:20 PM in reply to: #989912 |
Extreme Veteran 465 | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? That is probably it. So why would she not let me go out to my car and draw another cross on a blank sheet of paper? |
| 2007-10-03 1:23 PM in reply to: #989932 |
Champion 6107  Out running or enjoying a fine glass of red... | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? shadowfax - 2007-10-03 2:20 PM That is probably it. So why would she not let me go out to my car and draw another cross on a blank sheet of paper? Because she is untrained in the law and was probably told to draw a hard line to avoid any problems, even if it means that she will inevitably turn down some folks that aren't violating any copyright. Draw it on a piece of paper and go back in a few hours.  Kristen (This is not legal advice. If it were, you would be receiving a bill.) |
| 2007-10-03 1:26 PM in reply to: #989932 |
Regular 142 Fort Collins, CO | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? shadowfax - 2007-10-03 12:20 PM That is probably it. So why would she not let me go out to my car and draw another cross on a blank sheet of paper? Because she doesn't understand why she can't copy the image? I think you should be able to draw your own cross and have it printed on a cake. I have seen Heathcliff and Garfield on cakes so there must be some places willing to copyrighted material. I mean, you're going to eat the evidence anyway. Edited by PsionicSwallow 2007-10-03 1:27 PM |
| 2007-10-03 1:30 PM in reply to: #989941 |
Extreme Veteran 465 | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? enders_shadow - 2007-10-03 1:23 PM shadowfax - 2007-10-03 2:20 PM That is probably it. So why would she not let me go out to my car and draw another cross on a blank sheet of paper? Because she is untrained in the law and was probably told to draw a hard line to avoid any problems, even if it means that she will inevitably turn down some folks that aren't violating any copyright. Draw it on a piece of paper and go back in a few hours. Kristen (This is not legal advice. If it were, you would be receiving a bill.) HaHa, that is what we are going to do, I am back home with the babe, but I smacked it up on the window, put a piece of paper over it, and traced it. Will be sending my husband out with it later to place the order - what a pain in the butt though. Take that Wal-Mart, and don't forget to let your employees take breaks! Edited by shadowfax 2007-10-03 1:31 PM |
| 2007-10-03 1:38 PM in reply to: #989912 |
| Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? They can't draw a simple cross in icing? EVERY baptism cake in creation has a cross on it. Some are even shaped like crosses. There's gotta be away around this...maybe not the EXACT one you wanted, but seriously, they couldn't just draw one similar? I sort of feel like the cross is public domain. I'd ask my Christian ex-boyfriend who happens to be a trademark/intellectual property lawyer, but he's in Switzerland (and no, I'm not making any of that up). Edited by wurkit_gurl 2007-10-03 1:41 PM |
| 2007-10-03 1:39 PM in reply to: #989912 |
Pro 4339 Husker Nation | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? That lady may have been uptight about following the law, especially when she's unsure about where the line of legality is. There's also another lady who may have been uptight in insisting on one SPECIFIC cross, and no others are worthy of gracing the surface of her son's cake. |
| 2007-10-03 1:48 PM in reply to: #989984 |
Extreme Veteran 465 | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? Bripod - 2007-10-03 1:39 PM That lady may have been uptight about following the law, especially when she's unsure about where the line of legality is. There's also another lady who may have been uptight in insisting on one SPECIFIC cross, and no others are worthy of gracing the surface of her son's cake. Uptight? Guilty as charged, guilty as charged. But would like to add, any and all crosses would be worthy  ps. As far as the specificity goes, the cross was already very simple, any simpler and I could of had my son do it. |
| 2007-10-03 1:58 PM in reply to: #989941 |
Champion 4942 Richmond, VA | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? enders_shadow - 2007-10-03 2:23 PM shadowfax - 2007-10-03 2:20 PM That is probably it. So why would she not let me go out to my car and draw another cross on a blank sheet of paper? Because she is untrained in the law and was probably told to draw a hard line to avoid any problems, even if it means that she will inevitably turn down some folks that aren't violating any copyright. Draw it on a piece of paper and go back in a few hours. Kristen (This is not legal advice. If it were, you would be receiving a bill.)Oh lord can we get into some fun on this... I would have told her that YOU drew it on your computer and printed it out - so YOU own the copyright. Ironically, if you drew it free-hand, you WOULD have a copyright on it. But when the cake-lady redrew it on the cake, SHE had a copyright on it. But then, was the making of an icing cross part of the enumerated "works for hire" and if so, does the Copyright transfer from her to Wal-Mart or did she sign an employment agreement that makes her an employee and her copyrighted works automatically assignable to Wal-Mart. All the while, you would still retain the copyright in your SHEET of paper and she has the copyright in the artistic rendition on the cake. But then again, if you traced the cross, is yours a derivation of the original work?
I would also argue that she isn't violating copyright law because she isn't COPYING the cross, but rather recreating it in frosting and hence making a derivative work.
But alas, we are making cake out of cupcakes.... |
| 2007-10-03 2:29 PM in reply to: #989912 |
Pro 4189 Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? I have a wee bit of experience with this. When I was in undergrad, we did a "service learning" class with the United Methodist Children's Home of central Ohio (Otterbein is affiliated w/ the U.M. church). We were in charge of redesigning their entire portfolio (2 newsletters and an annual report). The first thought was, "CHANGE THE LOGO!" and a couple of teams wanted to use the "um cross" (the one w/ the flame behind it) in their letterhead. Turns out, the UM Church *owns* that cross/logo and it is part of a corporate identity (that's a bit crude, but its the down low of that). |
| 2007-10-03 2:29 PM in reply to: #990009 |
Pro 4339 Husker Nation | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? What's funny is that not ten minutes after I posted that I drove by a store in my town called "Church Stuff" or something like that and inside the window they had hung a cross that looked identical to the one you were describing! |
| 2007-10-03 2:53 PM in reply to: #989912 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? Jesus has a killer team of lawyers. |
| 2007-10-03 2:57 PM in reply to: #990181 |
Champion 4942 Richmond, VA | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? DerekL - 2007-10-03 3:53 PM Jesus has a killer team of lawyers. I didn't know any lawyers got up there... :-) |
| 2007-10-03 6:37 PM in reply to: #989912 |
Master 1420 Running trails in S. Ontario | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? Strangely enough, there was a similar copyright issue being debated on the Red Cross cross logo. Apparently, the rights are owned by Johnson & Johnson, and they sued the American Red Cross for infringement on the logo. So silly, since it is pretty much a universal symbol for first aid, lifeguards, and medical services. Unless a christian cross is highly stylized, I find it strange that it would be copyrighted. |
| 2007-10-03 6:46 PM in reply to: #990606 |
Pro 4339 Husker Nation | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? On the surface it seems silly that two lines [effectively] can and would be copyrighted, but in a society where the PRICES of BOOKS in a university library are copyrighted... I'm just not surprised. What has this world become? |
| 2007-10-03 8:19 PM in reply to: #989912 |
Pro 3673 MAC-opolis | Subject: RE: can a religious cross be copyrighted? Bribe them...there is nothing so religious that cannot be bought. If not, tell em you want the "addition" symbol with a slight variation. |
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