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How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert *
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 2007-10-08 1:59 PM |
Veteran 198  |  Subject: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert *I've been analyzing my first tri for a week now. This race really got me hooked and certainly won't be my last. Another thing this race did for me was made me really want to get into bike racing. I felt good on my bike split but I'm really bothered that I didn't place a little higher. I'm certain that a lot of it had to do with it being my first season and my first race but I'm also wondering how much of a factor the gear was. My 40k time was 1:06 and I was riding a Windsor Bristol (trek 1000 knock off from bikesdirect) with R550 wheels. I use clipless pedals, sidi road shoes, a light but not aero giro helmet, and I rode wearing trishorts and a cycling jersey. I rode with two water bottles, a flat repair kit, and clip-on aero bars. I was in aero for about 95% of the race. However, I saw several people in transition with Cervelo P3s, Zipp 404s, and tear drop helmets. I lost first place in my age group by 6 minutes and was two minutes out of the top 10. The course was relatively flat and wind was most certainly a factor. The wind was often a headwind and frequently gusting. So my question is - if I was riding the pimp gear how much faster do you guys think it would have made me? I also did not sprint at the finish - should I have? Oh and no matter what the answer here is I plan to invest heavily in the engine this winter. I know that's more important than the bike. I'm just trying to get a feel for all this. Thanks! |
| 2007-10-08 2:15 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Pro 4481  Reston | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * It depends. If you had the pimp gear, would you have spent more time riding it this year? (that's not to say that the 1244 miles showing in your logs isn't a good amount. it just not enough. You'll find lots of data (some of it conflicting) regarding how much time you can save in a 40K TT by using aero wheels, aero helmets, shorter aerobottle straws and by shaving your legs. I'm not going to cite any of it, because quite frankly it just confuses me. I don't think it would have saved you 6 minutes. Maybe 2 minutes, but even that seems to be pushing it. Edited by 3558 2007-10-08 2:17 PM |
)| 2007-10-08 2:24 PM in reply to: #996917 |
| Veteran 198 | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * My logs aren't complete. I got my bike in late May (first bike since I was 12) and my bike computer that I got mid-July reads just shy of 1200 miles. I know t.i.t.s. is the answer and I can do an insane amount of improving just by riding more. Plus next spring I'll introduce some real structure to my riding and start really hitting the sport specific training now that I've got some time in the saddle under my belt. I'm not trying to buy my way out of training. I'm just curious about how much the gear was a factor and if there is any way to estimate the kind of time we are talking on a 40k TT. I understand that nobody could possibly predict accurately but I wanted to know if there was any sort of conventional wisdom floating around out there that would give me a ball park idea. Edited by stuartjeff 2007-10-08 2:25 PM |
| 2007-10-08 2:37 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * After glancing at your race report and training logs, there are a couple of things that are going to pay much bigger dividends than investing in bike gear. 1) Swim - for anyone who does not have a physical limitation when it comes to swimming, with some coaching and serious time in the pool, they should be able to get under 30' (I would say more likely under 27' without too much difficulty). Even getting under 30 would say you 8' on your swim time. With the off season, this is a great time to work on the swim. 2) Run - with a serious focus on running, again barring physical limitations, there should be no reason that you can't get under 45' (and possibily closer to 40') for an OD run split. Again, the off-season is a great time for working on your limiters and just putting in the miles. Now, for your actual question - you very likely will gain time with better equipment, probably maximum about 5 minutes and more than likely less. So, while it doesn't answer your question, I think you have much more to gain swimming and running than by buying new gear for the bike. However, I like bike gear as much as anyone so if you do want to spend your money there, enjoy - toys are always fun  Just spend the time swimming and running as well... Shane |
| 2007-10-08 2:58 PM in reply to: #996917 |
| Veteran 198 | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * Thanks for the replys guys! I know there are about a million things I can do to improve my race times other than buying bike gear but I was just curious about what a factor it was. I just learned to swim a few weeks ago and freaked out and basically didn't swim during my race so that cost me big time. I also had terrible transitions and should have run a faster run pace without much trouble. I understand that I could have knocked 20 minutes off my time easily if I had improved those things and bike gear would have gotten me a couple of minutes at most but I'm just trying to get a feel for where I'm at with the bike relative to others. I'm asking about the bike is because I want to focus on bike racing during the early part of next season. I'm going to train hard this winter and know I need t.i.t.s. along with a comprehensive training plan which targets my cycling weaknesses. But my ride sucks and my wife isn't interested in spending a few thousand on bike gear. I'm curious about how much it's holding me back. |
| 2007-10-08 3:06 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Elite 3022 Preferably on my bike somewhere | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * You've gotten the same answer twice. Make it a third. Pimp gear does matter. A properly fit and tuner and blinged out bike will make you fresher on the run. 40k TT on a $5k bike might save you a couple of minutes on the bike, and might make you better on the run. The gain in less effort to push you the same speed, well, you do the math. BTW - there will be a point of diminishing returns. A $10k bike isn't going to double the gains made over a $5k bike. Edited by D.Z. 2007-10-08 3:08 PM |
| 2007-10-08 3:06 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Elite 3658 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * I agree with most of what the smart guys above said, but since you want to geek up here is a great podcast with all the times you will save: http://podcast.tri-talk.com/episode.aspx?feedID=371&episodeID=15639 The only catch is you have to tell us what you ACTUALLY saved! Goodluck! Edited by brown_dog_us 2007-10-08 3:10 PM |
| 2007-10-08 3:37 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * As far as position gains (which is the largest portion of your aerodynamic benefit, no matter how much money you throw at it), you won't see anything on a $5K bike that you can't get on a $2K bike. Seriously. What you might get for that extra $3K is some tweaks of a tube shape here, and a hidden cable there that will amount to less benefit than just being able to stay in your tuck for the whole 40K. A loose-fitting jersey will make FAR more drag than the $2K bike vs the $5K bike. Get your position dialed first. And I mean DIALED, for power and aerodynamics. And then ride it. Make the tweaks to it that are always needed, and THEN get the bike that fits that position. |
| 2007-10-08 3:46 PM in reply to: #997179 |
| Veteran 198 | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * briderdt - 2007-10-08 4:37 PM Get your position dialed first. And I mean DIALED, for power and aerodynamics. And then ride it. Make the tweaks to it that are always needed, and THEN get the bike that fits that position. Hey thanks for the advice. I was debating about paying for a pro fitting now or dealing with it later when I can get a new bike. I was going to work on getting my position more aggressive. I've got the core and flexibility to ride really low from climbing but I haven't pushed it yet because I don't really know what I'm doing. Your post is making me think I should go ahead and pay for a pro fit (in both road and aero) on my current crappy bike, get that position dialed in, and then worry about finding a decent bike. Also, you mentioned the difference between a 2k bike and a 5k bike but what about a $400 bike and a 2k bike. I could keep the bike I've got and get something along the lines of a cervelo soloist some time next year OR I could look for a sub 1k bike on craigslist that used to be a 2 or 3k bike now and then just stick with that for a couple of years. Any thoughts? |
| 2007-10-08 4:07 PM in reply to: #996956 |
Master 2638 | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * 3558 - 2007-10-08 2:15 PM . . . You'll find lots of data (some of it conflicting) regarding how much time you can save in a 40K TT by using aero wheels, aero helmets, shorter aerobottle straws and by shaving your legs. David Warden, who does the Tri-Talk podcasts (www.tri-talk.com) has actually rated equipment by the time it will save you in a time trial. Check out his archives for the podcast or maybe a print version of the list. Biggest time-saver is (as OP said) the engine. Edited to apologize since my super-hot spouse has already given the direct link to the podcast and I hadn't bothered to check for that. Edited by Mrs. brown_dog_us 2007-10-08 4:10 PM |
| 2007-10-08 4:11 PM in reply to: #997214 |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * I'd say go for a FIST fitting first, then see if your bike can be fit to that position. Or also determine which bikes will fit, and do some ebay searching. You can always keep the road bike (configured to your tri position) on a trainer -- no handling issues there. And you could get a tri frame (eBay a QR Kilo frame) and transfer over as many parts as you can from the bike you have... Difference between a $400 bike and a $2K bike will be very noticeable. But once you get past, say, $1500, they become much less. |
| 2007-10-08 4:21 PM in reply to: #997075 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * stuartjeff - 2007-10-08 4:58 PM I'm asking about the bike is because I want to focus on bike racing during the early part of next season. I'm going to train hard this winter and know I need t.i.t.s. along with a comprehensive training plan which targets my cycling weaknesses. But my ride sucks and my wife isn't interested in spending a few thousand on bike gear. I'm curious about how much it's holding me back. I was in the same place a couple of years ago - $250 dept store bike (weighed about 30lbs) with all off name components. That winter I had the chance to get a road bike for a really good price (used) and then, with the money I saved, I built up a Leader TT frame (about $1000CDN). Since then I have added race wheels for a total expense of $1650 - might be worth looking into if you want a tribike. You will definitely see some speed gains with an improved position, in addition to the focused training on your limiters as you've mentioned. Shane |
| 2007-10-08 6:48 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Veteran 325 | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * stuartjeff - 2007-10-08 2:59 PM So my question is - if I was riding the pimp gear how much faster do you guys think it would have made me? I also did not sprint at the finish - should I have? Oh and no matter what the answer here is I plan to invest heavily in the engine this winter. I know that's more important than the bike. I'm just trying to get a feel for all this. Thanks! This happens all the time on BT. Someone asks a perfectly relevant question about gear, etc. and most everybody says something along the lines of "just train more". Well, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to be bold and actually answer the question that was asked. I say you would have been about 2 minutes faster with race wheels and an aero helmet, maybe 3 at the most. I also agree with the suggestion to get a really good bike fit. |
| 2007-10-08 6:52 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * "It's not the arrow, but the Indian." |
| 2007-10-08 7:00 PM in reply to: #997543 |
| Veteran 198 | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * bryancd - 2007-10-08 7:52 PM "It's not the arrow, but the Indian." Want to trade arrows with me kimosabi? |
| 2007-10-08 7:10 PM in reply to: #996917 |
Champion 6627 Rochester Hills, Michigan Gold member | Subject: RE: How much does bike gear matter? * nerd alert * 2-3 minutes, at the most. Just make sure you pick off the obvious, like getting fit (and a good, narrow position), plus the Aero helmet. That's the cheapest speed around. Everything else is a rounding error. |
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