I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help!
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2007-10-18 9:05 AM |
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2007-10-18 9:11 AM in reply to: #1013478 |
Veteran 249 Northeast | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! The powertap system is essentially comprised of two things: a hub and a head unit. The hub (and associated cabling, unless you buy a wireless one) is where the torque is actually measured, which is converted to a power value using speed, distance and cadence data. The head unit is the little yellow device that looks like a cycling computer. Unless you buy "hub only", a "powertap system" is generally the hub and the head unit. You need to build a wheel around the hub (spokes, rim, nipples, etc.) -Or- You can buy a powertap wheel system, which has the hub pre-built into a wheel. So all you need to do is swap your existing rear wheel with the new one. I think you can also now buy a wheelset, which includes a front wheel as well (but obviously, you don't *need* a front wheel - presumably, you already have one - or are really good at doing wheelies). Hope this helps - if you have more questions, please feel free to contact me - I am a coach and order powertaps all the time for my clients. Joe |
2007-10-18 9:13 AM in reply to: #1013478 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by JeepFleeb 2007-10-18 9:14 AM |
2007-10-18 9:45 AM in reply to: #1013478 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2007-10-18 9:59 AM in reply to: #1013478 |
Veteran 249 Northeast | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! In my opinion - too much work to be worth it. Building wheels is hard, and building wheels using hardware that's already been used is harder. The only time I suggest buying only the hub and building a full wheel yourself, is if you're looking to build an ultralight wheelset, or something more special than what is offered out there "off the shelf". Plus, there are many advantages to having a backup, non-PT wheel (foul weather riding, etc)... By the time it's all said and done, it's just better to buy a built wheel. Just my two cents. |
2007-10-18 10:03 AM in reply to: #1013478 |
Extreme Veteran 739 Westlake, OH | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! SweetK - 2007-10-18 10:05 AM What exactly do I need when I purchase a powertap? A lot of money |
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2007-10-18 10:30 AM in reply to: #1013478 |
Elite 3022 Preferably on my bike somewhere | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! I was looking into this as well and got some info when I was j/s'ing at the Virginia Triple this month. The power meters come in different varieties - some attach to the HUB, and some the bottom bracket. The one at the hub is "supposedly" less accurate than the one that attaches right at the crank. The ones on the bottom bracket are more expensive. I can't remember what the names - I'm sure if I knew how to go to Google.com and search, I could find them. But I don't know how to do that. |
2007-10-18 10:32 AM in reply to: #1013599 |
Elite 3022 Preferably on my bike somewhere | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! ohiost90 - 2007-10-18 10:03 AM SweetK - 2007-10-18 10:05 AM What exactly do I need when I purchase a powertap? A lot of money And alot of info on how to use them properly. I've been considering getting one, but I have the feeling that it would turn into a REALLY EXPENSIVE speedometer... But that's me. |
2007-10-18 10:52 AM in reply to: #1013659 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! D.Z. - 2007-10-18 10:30 AM I was looking into this as well and got some info when I was j/s'ing at the Virginia Triple this month. The power meters come in different varieties - some attach to the HUB, and some the bottom bracket. The one at the hub is "supposedly" less accurate than the one that attaches right at the crank. The ones on the bottom bracket are more expensive. I can't remember what the names - I'm sure if I knew how to go to Google.com and search, I could find them. But I don't know how to do that. That is not true. Although the SRM is the standard (more accurate) host in the BB, the power tap (hub power meter) comes in a close 2nd. The Ergomo is not as accurate as it only measures one leg even (among other issues discussed on the Google power group) though it is host in the BB which is sort of a shame due to the nice features provided. All 3 are great tools and can fit specific needs and enhance your training with lost of fantastic data, but if you are anal about power accuracy they go in the order I mentioned and then the rest. |
2007-10-18 11:00 AM in reply to: #1013659 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! D.Z. - 2007-10-18 10:30 AM The one at the hub is "supposedly" less accurate than the one that attaches right at the crank. Accuracy is pretty comparable for a PT (hub) and an SRM (cranks)--SRMs are considered the "gold standard". Readings of power will be slightly different, reflecting any power lost in the drivetrain. But that doesn't really matter from a user perspective. Ergomo (bottom bracket) is probably not as universally accurate as it essentially only measures one leg. For some users, this may cause meaningful discrepencies according to some people. But most users generally find this to not be a big issue. Here's a good overview of the PT, SRM and Polar units: http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/pm_review.htm For most people on a budget, I would recommend the PT built into a solid training wheel. Add a disc cover for racing. |
2007-10-18 11:08 AM in reply to: #1013707 |
Elite 3022 Preferably on my bike somewhere | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! amiine - 2007-10-18 10:52 AM D.Z. - 2007-10-18 10:30 AM I was looking into this as well and got some info when I was j/s'ing at the Virginia Triple this month. The power meters come in different varieties - some attach to the HUB, and some the bottom bracket. The one at the hub is "supposedly" less accurate than the one that attaches right at the crank. The ones on the bottom bracket are more expensive. I can't remember what the names - I'm sure if I knew how to go to Google.com and search, I could find them. But I don't know how to do that. That is not true. Although the SRM is the standard (more accurate) host in the BB, the power tap (hub power meter) comes in a close 2nd. The Ergomo is not as accurate as it only measures one leg even (among other issues discussed on the Google power group) though it is host in the BB which is sort of a shame due to the nice features provided. All 3 are great tools and can fit specific needs and enhance your training with lost of fantastic data, but if you are anal about power accuracy they go in the order I mentioned and then the rest. Wait - what's not true? If I am re-reading my post correctly, and your post correctly, we are in agreement. What am I missing? I said the BB ones (the SRM as you call them) are more accurate than the HUB mounted ones, and you seem to say the same thing. |
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2007-10-18 11:12 AM in reply to: #1013729 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! Wait - what's not true? If I am re-reading my post correctly, and your post correctly, we are in agreement. What am I missing? I said the BB ones (the SRM as you call them) are more accurate than the HUB mounted ones, and you seem to say the same thing. Accuracy is quite close between PT and SRM. We just wanted to clarify that "less accurate" is small enough to be largely negligible in this case. Also, the SRM measures at the cranks. Ergomo measures in the bottom bracket. |
2007-10-18 12:17 PM in reply to: #1013739 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2007-10-18 2:09 PM in reply to: #1013478 |
Extreme Veteran 468 | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! I decided to go with Bully Dog and now Im' faster than ever……. DIESEL POWER!!! Edited by BIGNEW 2007-10-18 2:13 PM (bullydog.jpg) Attachments ---------------- bullydog.jpg (81KB - 30 downloads) |
2007-10-18 2:15 PM in reply to: #1013478 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! I’d strongly recommend buying the power meter book and reading it before buying one. They have a whole chapter on the different types and a chart with pros and cons of each. http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1931382... For me it was an easy decision. I have more than one bike, and the powertap system is way cheaper for more than one bike. You just swap out wheels, get a second harness system for about $65 and you are good to go. Plus the system was so much less money. I bought mine from Performance Bike when they had a 20% of coupon so it was $1000 less $200 brings it to $800 then 10% in points to use on future purchase so net of $720. Ergo system is $1550 and second bike kit is $700. I was able to get system and my Zipps for less than that. You can buy the system and have someone build you a wheel or get it with the Mavic Open Pro rim and Sarris (power tap co) builds it and sells as a kit…so the price for the built wheel is $100 which you can’t touch anywhere. The wheel is heavy though. The difference between it and my Zipp is 17 oz. I’m not sure I’d spend $300 on some other kind of lighter wheel to save 6 oz. Part of it depends if you are going to race with your power meter. At first I wasn’t going to as I was racing gadget less as I sort of had this issue with being negative with myself and judging myself harsh while racing and actually going slower. I’ve moved up to racing with it and like the data from it. Often I race by feel and glace at my powermeter computer, but I know how hard I can push my body. Doing a HIM or IM I think it will be more helpful to make sure I don’t push to hard early on the bike and also to not slack off in spots on certain types of downhills. Plus watching my power on up hills and making sure it doesn’t get to high preserves my legs better. One big plus of PM is if you have a coach it is like they were with you on the ride and they can help critic your ride so you can improve. Two specific things my coach Will has helped me with is pacing as I often go to hard in the beginning and sort of fade in a race or TT. The other thing is for a specific race that is challenging hill wise, he set up my weekly interval to duplicate the efforts needed to climb that race's hills based on me pre-riding the course. Thus my legs and body will get used to that rhythm of effort and hop I get better at buffering lactic acid which should make me perform better at the HIM. I did have issues with my first PM computer. Sarris has sent me free ones and actually upgraded me to the more expensive one for free. First two HR wouldn’t pick up as it wasn’t coded and I think my cell phone interfered. The first new coded one I got didn’t work. Seconded coded one has worked well. What I was told is they were going to completely coded system for them now. I’d make sure the CPU and HRM you get is coded as it picks up HR much much better. Sarris is great for customer service and exchanges which is a big plus with an expensive item. A huge thing for me was having the PM for winter and trainer rides as I actually worked hard and improved in the off season. I hadn’t really realized how easy I was doing the trainer until I started with the PM. It actually for me makes trainer rides fun and challenging and I no longer watch TV or need a distraction. I'd recommend getting cycling peaks software as it is much better than the Sarris software and it was written with the authors of the books ideas. On-line power meter review http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/pm_review.htm wattage group: The folks that wrote the Power Meter book participate in this list. Most of the people who post are hard core bike racers. Much of what they say goes over my head but by joining you can scroll back at old posts and learn a lot. I find it very informative. Lots of discussion on type of equipment/which power meters as well if you look on-line at the old threads. It can be a little like slow twitch where if you get it wrong they jump all over you. http://groups.google.com/group/wattage?hl=en |
2007-10-18 4:24 PM in reply to: #1013478 |
Elite 3088 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! Kathy gives lots of good info here. I've got the Power Tap built on to a Mavic Open Pro. For racing, I use a disk cover on it. Yes, it's heavier than a Zipp or other disk, but I like the info it provides for me during a race and unless the course is hilly, the price you pay in having a heavier wheel is absurdly small. If I had $2k to spend, yeah, I'd get the SRM. The PT was a more affordable option while still providing a high degree of precision. This isn't the same as accuracy, by the way. Accuracy means it shows the right wattage. Precision means that it shows consistent measurements for a given output. For training, precision is far more important than accuracy. Accuracy only matters if you want to compare yourself to someone else. |
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2007-10-18 7:55 PM in reply to: #1014091 |
Regular 117 | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! BIGNEW - 2007-10-18 3:09 PM I decided to go with Bully Dog and now Im' faster than ever……. DIESEL POWER!!!
That thing looks pretty sweet, do I need a separate set of aero bars just to mount it |
2007-10-19 11:32 AM in reply to: #1014715 |
Extreme Veteran 468 | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! I had to go with an old school aerobar (aerobar.jpg) Attachments ---------------- aerobar.jpg (9KB - 27 downloads) |
2007-11-01 1:26 AM in reply to: #1014109 |
Expert 1023 Ft Gordon, GA | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! KathyG - 2007-10-19 4:15 AM I’d strongly recommend buying the power meter book and reading it before buying one. They have a whole chapter on the different types and a chart with pros and cons of each. http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-Hunter/dp/1931382... For me it was an easy decision. I have more than one bike, and the powertap system is way cheaper for more than one bike. You just swap out wheels, get a second harness system for about $65 and you are good to go. Plus the system was so much less money. I bought mine from Performance Bike when they had a 20% of coupon so it was $1000 less $200 brings it to $800 then 10% in points to use on future purchase so net of $720. Ergo system is $1550 and second bike kit is $700. I was able to get system and my Zipps for less than that. You can buy the system and have someone build you a wheel or get it with the Mavic Open Pro rim and Sarris (power tap co) builds it and sells as a kit…so the price for the built wheel is $100 which you can’t touch anywhere. The wheel is heavy though. The difference between it and my Zipp is 17 oz. I’m not sure I’d spend $300 on some other kind of lighter wheel to save 6 oz. Part of it depends if you are going to race with your power meter. At first I wasn’t going to as I was racing gadget less as I sort of had this issue with being negative with myself and judging myself harsh while racing and actually going slower. I’ve moved up to racing with it and like the data from it. Often I race by feel and glace at my powermeter computer, but I know how hard I can push my body. Doing a HIM or IM I think it will be more helpful to make sure I don’t push to hard early on the bike and also to not slack off in spots on certain types of downhills. Plus watching my power on up hills and making sure it doesn’t get to high preserves my legs better. One big plus of PM is if you have a coach it is like they were with you on the ride and they can help critic your ride so you can improve. Two specific things my coach Will has helped me with is pacing as I often go to hard in the beginning and sort of fade in a race or TT. The other thing is for a specific race that is challenging hill wise, he set up my weekly interval to duplicate the efforts needed to climb that race's hills based on me pre-riding the course. Thus my legs and body will get used to that rhythm of effort and hop I get better at buffering lactic acid which should make me perform better at the HIM. I did have issues with my first PM computer. Sarris has sent me free ones and actually upgraded me to the more expensive one for free. First two HR wouldn’t pick up as it wasn’t coded and I think my cell phone interfered. The first new coded one I got didn’t work. Seconded coded one has worked well. What I was told is they were going to completely coded system for them now. I’d make sure the CPU and HRM you get is coded as it picks up HR much much better. Sarris is great for customer service and exchanges which is a big plus with an expensive item. A huge thing for me was having the PM for winter and trainer rides as I actually worked hard and improved in the off season. I hadn’t really realized how easy I was doing the trainer until I started with the PM. It actually for me makes trainer rides fun and challenging and I no longer watch TV or need a distraction. I'd recommend getting cycling peaks software as it is much better than the Sarris software and it was written with the authors of the books ideas. On-line power meter review http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/pm_review.htm wattage group: The folks that wrote the Power Meter book participate in this list. Most of the people who post are hard core bike racers. Much of what they say goes over my head but by joining you can scroll back at old posts and learn a lot. I find it very informative. Lots of discussion on type of equipment/which power meters as well if you look on-line at the old threads. It can be a little like slow twitch where if you get it wrong they jump all over you. http://groups.google.com/group/wattage?hl=en So the one at Performance.com is a complete wheel for 949.99? http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=18503&item=40-1... Does this include the computer and mount for the bike? Which PowerTap hub is it? I looked up the PowerTap and they have 5 or 6 different level hubs. Does it come with a HRM built in? I'm interested but obviously very confused Thanks for the help, Buck |
2007-11-01 7:35 AM in reply to: #1032750 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! So the one at Performance.com is a complete wheel for 949.99? http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=18503&item=... Does this include the computer and mount for the bike? >>> yes Which PowerTap hub is it? I looked up the PowerTap and they have 5 or 6 different level hubs. >>> Pro Does it come with a HRM built in? >>> yes |
2007-11-02 2:50 AM in reply to: #1032834 |
Expert 1023 Ft Gordon, GA | Subject: RE: I'm confused about PowerTaps, Meters, etc..help! amiine - 2007-11-01 9:35 PM So the one at Performance.com is a complete wheel for 949.99? http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=18503&item=40-1... Does this include the computer and mount for the bike? >>> yes Which PowerTap hub is it? I looked up the PowerTap and they have 5 or 6 different level hubs. >>> Pro Does it come with a HRM built in? >>> yes Cool!!! Thanks for the feedback. Time to start saving for next summer I think I can hide $50-$100 a month for a while Thanks again, Buck |
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