VDOT?
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2008-10-16 5:44 PM |
Extreme Veteran 310![]() ![]() ![]() Colorado Springs | Subject: VDOT?I was just looking at another thread and I looked up my VDOT on the calculator mentioned in the thread. I recently did a military 1.5 mi PT Test run and finished in 10:05. I was wearing my garmin, and my 1 mile time hack was 6:41. According to the calculator, my VDOT is 43. When I finished the run, I was completely spent. This was not a pace I could have maintained for a 5k run. Knowing that I can't maintain that pace, are the VDOT calculated training paces accurate, or are they perhaps a little too aggressive? Also, if they are reasonable paces to follow, what type of results would a person expect to see over a specified period of time? Lets say over 3, 6, and 12 months of consistently using the VDOT prescribed training paces? Here is the link in case anyone needs it. http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm Thanks |
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2008-10-16 6:41 PM in reply to: #1748334 |
Not a Coach 11473![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Media, PA | Subject: RE: VDOT?Probably best to use a longer test. You should see very good progress if you follow the training principles that Daniels (or pretty any other running 'guru') espouses. That is, run lots--mostly easy, sometimes hard. The VDOT paces are good guidlines for "easy" and "hard". |
2008-10-16 7:03 PM in reply to: #1748334 |
Champion 9407![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: VDOT?If you want an accurate result from the calculator, you need to use one of the distances (IMO I would shoot for at least a 5k) as opposed to your mile time while you continue for another .5mile. The paces I find for most are pretty much right on; there will be exceptions (of course) but they should give you a good idea of how fast to run on hard days and how slow to run on easy days. Jack Daniel's developed his VDot charts based on his observation of athletes during training and racing. Shane |
2008-10-16 7:05 PM in reply to: #1748425 |
Cycling Guru 15134![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: VDOT?VDOT tends to be relatively accurate paces that you should follow at that particular instant in your training. It does not prescribe a potential race time like McMillan, what it does is set you up with the corresponding ranges that you should be training at using his workouts (E, M, T, I, R). McMillan also gives you training ranges, but with his definition of different zones. If you are not following Daniels training methods, than VDOT is just another number in the logs ...... |
2008-10-16 7:35 PM in reply to: #1748334 |
Extreme Veteran 310![]() ![]() ![]() Colorado Springs | Subject: RE: VDOT?Thanks for the inputs so far. If you had to choose between HR training and the JD VDOT paces, which would you recommend? What would be the benefits of using one over the other? |
2008-10-16 7:55 PM in reply to: #1748527 |
Not a Coach 11473![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Media, PA | Subject: RE: VDOT?I prefer to focus on pace. But if you follow the "run lots--mostly easy, sometimes hard" training plan then it really doesn't matter that much whether you go by pace, HR, or RPE. |
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2008-10-16 7:57 PM in reply to: #1748527 |
Cycling Guru 15134![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: VDOT?Again, unless you are really following his protocol in reference to what those paces mean and applying them to your runs proportionately then you will not reap the full benefit of following them. In general, other than the "run lots, run often" mantra I would say that there is not one "system" that is better than the other. The key to improving if you want to use a coach's system is to follow it and try not to mix and match. It may take some trial and error over the course of a few years to see what training style suits you. I would just recommend picking one and sticking with it, then evaluate at different points to see if it works the way you want it to. Edited by Daremo 2008-10-16 7:58 PM |
2008-10-17 6:40 AM in reply to: #1748334 |
Expert 986![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Michiana | Subject: RE: VDOT?A 5k or 10k race would, of course, be best. However, I've done timed runs of 800m, 1mi, as well as 5k and 13.1mi races. All have come within one VDOT point and are in-line with the McMillan prediction table/calculator. I have done the run LT test prescribed by D3multisport and BT and have been cognizant of my HR and zones as they correspond to the Daniel's and McMillan paces. Nearly every time my Daniels prescribed tempo pace is in line with my tempo HR zone. The same has been true for other zones/paces. The only time I've seen variance is due to high temperatures (which, of course is subjective). I also find that Pfitzinger/Douglas don't vary from Daniels training paces. The same goes for McMillian. It seems all these gurus are cut from pretty much the same mold, with only slight nuiances in training styles. In fact P-D make many references to Jack Daniels in their Advanced Marathoning book. Daniels mentions gaining 1-2 points of VDOT over a season. Keep in mind, that the kind of running Daniels assumes are those of true, experienced runners, who devote all or at least the vast majority of their training time to running (vs. swim/bike), and they run LOTS. It may be unreasonable for a triathlete who devotes <30mi per week to expect that kind of gain. I've been 100% focused on running since August (after 8/2 half-iron event) in prep for a 11/1 marathon and feel that the 36-42 miles per week over this period has gotten me one, maybe two VDOT points. So, check back with me on this after 11/1. |
2008-10-17 6:48 AM in reply to: #1748527 |
Expert 986![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Michiana | Subject: RE: VDOT?AF_SGT - 2008-10-16 8:35 PM Thanks for the inputs so far. If you had to choose between HR training and the JD VDOT paces, which would you recommend? What would be the benefits of using one over the other? HR training is easy if you have a HRM. You don't need any known distances or a track to execute your day-in-day-out training. For example, "run 20 minutes in Z2, 20min in Z4, 20 min in Z1" is easy to do. Also, the HR feedback is instantaneous. That is, if you have a HRM, you know what level of exertion throughout the workout. Pace is determined at check-points (eg every 400m on a track, or every mile with a Garmin). I know Garmin has instantenous pace feedback, but I've found this unreliable. When I run on new routes or trails, I just use HR. When I have a key workout where I want to measure progress, I like to run on a known course or track to get my exact pace. Of course, the easiest route [where are you Scout7?] is going by RPE - e.g. easy, medium, hard... However, I like to take a slightly more scientific approach and feel like I'm getting good results. In the end, I like being a student of the sport and being aware of exertion (RPE, HR Zone) and how prescribed paces feel will help with training results and race performance. |
2008-10-17 7:21 AM in reply to: #1749079 |
Pro 4675![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro | Subject: RE: VDOT?mbmoran2 - 2008-10-17 6:40 AM I also find that Pfitzinger/Douglas don't vary from Daniels training paces. The same goes for McMillian. It seems all these gurus are cut from pretty much the same mold, with only slight nuiances in training styles. In fact P-D make many references to Jack Daniels in their Advanced Marathoning book. I believe Pete Pfitzinger was a grad student of Daniels' (exercise physiology) so that probably explains a lot. |
2008-10-17 8:14 AM in reply to: #1748334 |
Coach 10487![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Boston, MA | Subject: RE: VDOT?AF_SGT - 2008-10-16 7:35 PM Thanks for the inputs so far. If you had to choose between HR training and the JD VDOT paces, which would you recommend? What would be the benefits of using one over the other? I would go by pace (whether using VDOT or another) and RPE. If you don’t have a GPS/pedometer (I use the polar RS400), just run on your regular loops; if you have run these routes often and measured on GMAPS you can have a sense of what distance you’ve covered and what sort of pace you are holding. Hence you just need a stopwatch and let your body dictates the pace you’ll develop a better feel for what’s easy, what’s moderate and what’s hard. IMO HR is too variable, can be influenced by many things and most important it is not a direct measurement of training intensity. Regarding the VDOT calculator; remember that all of this are estimates of what you should be able to accomplish based on your current fitness level. Daniels or McMillan pace calculators determine your current fitness level based on the result of “x” distance like your 1 mile pace. The results indicates what your current potential is and IF you train accordingly you should be able to run at ‘x’ pace on another distances. The catch is that you have to do the training other wise you won’t be able to achieve what the calculator estimates for you. It doesn’t mean the calculator is inaccurate, it means you haven’t trained your body to do so. But in the end this calculators are not 100% and the pace might vary a bit. In terms of testing I prefer for athletes to do 5Ks for slower athletes or 10K for faster ones. The point is for the test to last anywhere between 15-35 min; this are short enough that it can be done every training cycle and long enough to get a good idea of the current fitness level at/above threshold pace is. |
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2008-10-16 5:44 PM
Colorado Springs





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