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2008-10-30 4:00 PM

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Subject: Poor bike after the swim
After completing my 5th tri this Summer and experiencing the same thing all 5 times, I need help.

When I get out of the water, I am as tired as the next MOP'r, but not exhausted. First 90 seconds are fine then my HR shoots up and I can't keep any pace. I'm not trying to go 25mph.... First 6 miles avg last Sunday: 16.5mph.
Then I get my HR down and I speed up. My last 6 miles of the 16 mi leg avg: 21.5. There was no wind to account for this. The course was flat and flatter so that wasn't it. It has happened every time.
My swim fitness, though not great this race, has been there in the past and it made no difference.

Any ideas on how to not just survive but do well on the first bike section? Thx.

Scott


2008-10-30 4:09 PM
in reply to: #1776668

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Master
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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim
(More) bricks maybe.  That's the only thing I can think of I'm afraid.
2008-10-30 4:16 PM
in reply to: #1776668

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim

Going too hard on the swim relative to your fitness. 

At least that's what happens to me when I do that

2008-10-30 4:21 PM
in reply to: #1776668

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim

There are those who believe that a "Lance style" high cadence on the bike is not best for triathlons. You might be trying to spin too much too soon after the swim, causing your HR to skyrocket.

 

 

 

2008-10-30 7:10 PM
in reply to: #1776706

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim
joker70 - 2008-10-30 5:21 PM

There are those who believe that a "Lance style" high cadence on the bike is not best for triathlons. You might be trying to spin too much too soon after the swim, causing your HR to skyrocket.

 

 

 



That could be it as I've always preferred a cadence in the 90's to 100. I actually meant to comment a while back in another thread about my observing people going by me at a much slower cadence (which I though was detrimental to the running leg of the race)....anyway, thanks. I will try hitting the bike next time I finish a swim.
Also, I have never done any swim/bike bricks. Never thought about it actually...
How many do the swim/bike bricks???
2008-10-30 7:17 PM
in reply to: #1777030

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim

It's not your cadence, it's not the wind, it's not your bike fitness.

It is going hard or too excited in the last part of the swim and through transition.  You are asking your body to go from a fully supported horizontal position using almost all upper body strength to vertical and leg strength.  It takes time for things to acclimate.

Bricks will do ZERO for you, they do not do anything more than show you what it feels like.  Perhaps they give you an opportunity to "calm down" but that is in training and cannot simulate a race, no matter how hard you make the training.

A big portion of doing well in a race is being calm and relaxed using as few muscles as possible to get the job done.  That is where coming out of the water, knowing exactly what you need to do in transition, getting on the bike and slowing your body down.  What you are experiencing is quite normal and in longer races is easy to overcome.  In a short race like a sprint, you just need to suck it up as you should be racing close to redline for much of it anyways.



2008-10-30 7:28 PM
in reply to: #1777039

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim
Daremo - 2008-10-30 8:17 PM

It's not your cadence, it's not the wind, it's not your bike fitness.

It is going hard or too excited in the last part of the swim and through transition.  You are asking your body to go from a fully supported horizontal position using almost all upper body strength to vertical and leg strength.  It takes time for things to acclimate.

Bricks will do ZERO for you, they do not do anything more than show you what it feels like.  Perhaps they give you an opportunity to "calm down" but that is in training and cannot simulate a race, no matter how hard you make the training.

A big portion of doing well in a race is being calm and relaxed using as few muscles as possible to get the job done.  That is where coming out of the water, knowing exactly what you need to do in transition, getting on the bike and slowing your body down.  What you are experiencing is quite normal and in longer races is easy to overcome.  In a short race like a sprint, you just need to suck it up as you should be racing close to redline for much of it anyways.

Excellent post...right on the money....being calm is key even in Sprints.

2008-10-30 7:34 PM
in reply to: #1777058

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim
thecaptin - 2008-10-30 8:28 PM
Daremo - 2008-10-30 8:17 PM

It's not your cadence, it's not the wind, it's not your bike fitness.

It is going hard or too excited in the last part of the swim and through transition.  You are asking your body to go from a fully supported horizontal position using almost all upper body strength to vertical and leg strength.  It takes time for things to acclimate.

Bricks will do ZERO for you, they do not do anything more than show you what it feels like.  Perhaps they give you an opportunity to "calm down" but that is in training and cannot simulate a race, no matter how hard you make the training.

A big portion of doing well in a race is being calm and relaxed using as few muscles as possible to get the job done.  That is where coming out of the water, knowing exactly what you need to do in transition, getting on the bike and slowing your body down.  What you are experiencing is quite normal and in longer races is easy to overcome.  In a short race like a sprint, you just need to suck it up as you should be racing close to redline for much of it anyways.

Excellent post...right on the money....being calm is key even in Sprints.

x3 - i went through this earlier this year in a weekly off road SBR.  My heart rate would always shoot through the roof the first 5-10 minutes of the MTB. As you get fitter it will abate and, in any event, you will be used to going full tilt.  Enjoy the rush.

2008-10-31 4:44 AM
in reply to: #1776668

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim
What a swim/bike brick will allow you to do is play around with your cadence. Perhaps you need to drop your cadence/raise your gear while you make the adjustment Daremo was talking about; maybe you need to kick hard the last 100 of your swim. Maybe you need to take 15 seconds in transition to shake out your muscles, do jumping jacks, stand on your head, whatever. The bricks will let you play around with that stuff outside of a race situation. I used S/B bricks, and was mighty glad to learn that my head spun like a top when I tried to stand up out of the water, and so developed strategies to deal with that. Bricks are NOT about fitness, they are about strategy. Play with your swim and your bike, and good luck!
2008-10-31 5:01 AM
in reply to: #1776668

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim
Without knowing your overall yardage and training paces, and what your race pace was, I think what Chris, Rick & others said about going too hard relative to your fitness is probably correct.

Most people, due to excitement and adrenaline, experience their highest effort levels during the swim, which sets up the first half of their bike as a big recovery exercise. Usually, they go at an effort they have rarely if ever seen in training.

This is why I always tell people (those that I can get to listen ) that the swim is the foundation of your race - you can't do well overall unless you're willing to stay with the FOP (at least in short course / 70.3), and you can't have a good race if that effort wipes you out.

2008-10-31 8:27 AM
in reply to: #1777941

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim

Slugger - 2008-10-31 5:44 AM What a swim/bike brick will allow you to do is play around with your cadence. Perhaps you need to drop your cadence/raise your gear while you make the adjustment Daremo was talking about; maybe you need to kick hard the last 100 of your swim. Maybe you need to take 15 seconds in transition to shake out your muscles, do jumping jacks, stand on your head, whatever. The bricks will let you play around with that stuff outside of a race situation. I used S/B bricks, and was mighty glad to learn that my head spun like a top when I tried to stand up out of the water, and so developed strategies to deal with that. Bricks are NOT about fitness, they are about strategy. Play with your swim and your bike, and good luck!

Again, cadence has nothing to do with it ........ the amount of power and RPE has everything to do with it.  Your body really doesn't give a crap if the legs are moving at 100 rpms or 80 rpms if you are putting out the same amount of power/effort.  They key thing is to not go out like a rocket, but give your body a chance to "catch up."

And again, no matter how hard someone tries, you can NEVER simulate racing in training.  There are too many outside influences in racing that have an affect on your HR: your effort out of the gate, your perception of your effort, the course layout, length of run out of transition, etc.

The best way to get better at racing is ........ racing.

The best way to give you the opportunity to race well with your fitness level is ...... training.



2008-11-01 12:07 PM
in reply to: #1776668

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim
In the summer I like to ride my bike to the pool (4 miles) and do a longer ride on the way home. It becomes such a familiar feeling that it's easier to do on race day.

Your race logs mention some difficulty on the swim, which could definitely contribute the the bike start problem, especially swallowing salt water. Since you don't log your workouts, it's a guess as to your overall fitness, and that possibly being a factor as well.
2008-11-01 1:11 PM
in reply to: #1776668

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Subject: RE: Poor bike after the swim

My HR always shoots up coming out of the water, stays high in T1 and then slowly drops down to a "normal" level after 5 miles or so on the bike. It seems that my body reacts to the change from horizontal to vertical more than most people.

Can't say that nerves aren't part of it too, but I don't experience the same reaction in T2, where my HR actually drops. I pretty much just expect it and do my best to bring down my HR as quickly as I can without taking too much off the bike pace.

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