General Discussion Triathlon Talk » aerobars vs. drops for tt Rss Feed  
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2008-08-11 7:33 PM

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Master
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Salisbury, North Carolina
Subject: aerobars vs. drops for tt
Time trial Wed nite @ Lowes Speedway...... am I faster riding aero with PD jammers or riding in the drops ( everything else equal ) ? I can definitely get lower in the drops but I can get "narrower" going aero.... just curious.. I've done a lot of riding in both positions. If I had to guess I'd say aero is faster, even being higher. Seems like I read something about some clip-ons that are a good bit lower than the Jammers, maybe the Oval Concepts ? Thanks in advance.

Also, just read an Empfield study saying the most aerodynamic position for water bottle is on the down tube only, even faster than no water bottle at all, because of improved air flow around seat tube/rear wheel. There will be an empty water bottle on my d tube Wed night. Or maybe this study is outdated ? This 40+er will take any second I can get.....

Edited by tri42 2008-08-11 7:35 PM


2008-08-11 8:30 PM
in reply to: #1595847

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Master
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Chapel Hill, NC
Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt
Wish I could do it - TT's are alot of fun. Charlotte's just too far for me to do in an evening.

I would think aerobars, since that's what they use in the Tour de France time trial stages.

I heard that same statistic about water bottles on the down tube. I think that same study also talked about profile type aero bottles helped as much as a bottle on the down tube.

After an 8 mile TT I did in May, I listened to a podcast about wind tunnel testing. Then I lowered my aerobars by 1/2 inch, used the aerobottle, and got a LG TT helmet. My June TT was 20 seconds faster. I had done no speedwork between the two events, only hillwork. The temperate in June was 95 degrees, as compared to 65 degrees in May. So, gaining 20 seconds was exciting!

Good luck!
2008-08-11 8:36 PM
in reply to: #1595847

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Expert
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Dodge County, MN (out in the corn)
Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt
Are you riding *in* the speedway?  Like where the cars go?  That sounds cool.  I used to live about 1/2 mile from that track about 11 years ago.  No answer to your question though.  Carry on.
2008-08-11 8:39 PM
in reply to: #1595847

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Champion
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Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt

No empirical evidence, but the aerobars will be better. Period. And if you end up going clip-on, go lower to eliminate the height penalty.

However. However. 1) take your cages off, you don't need 'em. 2) not that you asked, but get an aero helmet, tis much bigger benefit than the bars, and 3) just ride. The bars themselves matter, but not that much, just like aero wheels. Completely overhyped. If your engine is good, you're fine.

2008-08-11 8:53 PM
in reply to: #1595959

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Master
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Salisbury, North Carolina
Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt
rowdypaint - 2008-08-11 9:36 PM

Are you riding *in* the speedway?  Like where the cars go?  That sounds cool.  I used to live about 1/2 mile from that track about 11 years ago.  No answer to your question though.  Carry on.


Yep, on the NASCAR track... well, the flat part... not quite enough centrifugal force to stay on the banking yet ...


Rick, thanks for the info. Hey, how can I lower the PD jammers ?

Edited by tri42 2008-08-11 9:04 PM
2008-08-11 9:06 PM
in reply to: #1595847

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Master
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Loughborough, England
Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt
Being aero is all about frontal area, which you'll find is smaller when using aero bars.


2008-08-11 9:08 PM
in reply to: #1595983

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Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt

tri42 - 2008-08-11 9:53 PM
rowdypaint - 2008-08-11 9:36 PM Are you riding *in* the speedway?  Like where the cars go?  That sounds cool.  I used to live about 1/2 mile from that track about 11 years ago.  No answer to your question though.  Carry on.
Yep, on the NASCAR track... well, the flat part... not quite enough centrifugal force to stay on the banking yet ... Rick, thanks for the info. Hey, how can I lower the PD jammers ?

Get a negative rise stem. Everything goes down, including the bars. But it could throw your position all out of whack. Caveat emptor on this one....

2008-08-11 9:28 PM
in reply to: #1595847

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Master
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Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt

I've seen stats suggesting that aerobars can be as much as 1.5mph to 2mph faster.

I originally thought that seemed unrealistic, but that was pretty close to what I found in my 10k TT.  I had been doing them with aero bars on my tri bike, but just took my road bike out last week and did it with drop bars.  I was at least 45 seconds slower. And this was a rolling course, not a flat one, so the aero advantage was only for part of it.

This was the case despite the fact that my aero position is "higher' than my position in the drops on my road bike. I set up the tri bike to conform to UCI rules, so couldn't move the seat up and forward.  My TT position, as a result, is far from what you would call "aggressive." 

2008-08-11 9:38 PM
in reply to: #1596057

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Master
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Salisbury, North Carolina
Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt
Thanks all !
2008-08-12 7:11 AM
in reply to: #1595847

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Master
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Millersville, MD
Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt

Just wanted to make a slight correction to the apparent knock at aero wheels above. When people say that a TT helmet is the best bang for your buck in terms of speed increase, that's only because a TT helmet costs probably less than $200 whereas aero wheels may have an extra zero on that number. But if I'm not mistaken, the time benefits of aero wheels are greater than an aero helmet... although if you're gonna get the wheels, why not drop an extra few cents (comparatively) on the helmet too.

Good luck in your race - it sounds pretty cool!

2008-08-12 11:09 AM
in reply to: #1596382

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Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt
JoshKaptur - 2008-08-12 8:11 AM

Just wanted to make a slight correction to the apparent knock at aero wheels above. When people say that a TT helmet is the best bang for your buck in terms of speed increase, that's only because a TT helmet costs probably less than $200 whereas aero wheels may have an extra zero on that number. But if I'm not mistaken, the time benefits of aero wheels are greater than an aero helmet... although if you're gonna get the wheels, why not drop an extra few cents (comparatively) on the helmet too.

Good luck in your race - it sounds pretty cool!

Good points! This website has some numbers for for 20mph at a 40k distance. Remember always believe everything you read on the internet

To the OP how long is the TT?

If your going to make any physical changes with lowering the bar height you really should have a fitting done to make sure your geometry to the bike is correct.  It's been stated that an improper fit can make you slower because your not in the optimal position to make maximum sustainable power, that's what a TT is all about.  Especially true on a road bike frame geometry.

Oh dump any excess weight on the bike before wondering about water bottle aero affect. 

 



2008-08-12 11:32 AM
in reply to: #1597159

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Master
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Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt
Donto - 2008-08-12 12:09 PM

JoshKaptur - 2008-08-12 8:11 AM

Just wanted to make a slight correction to the apparent knock at aero wheels above. When people say that a TT helmet is the best bang for your buck in terms of speed increase, that's only because a TT helmet costs probably less than $200 whereas aero wheels may have an extra zero on that number. But if I'm not mistaken, the time benefits of aero wheels are greater than an aero helmet... although if you're gonna get the wheels, why not drop an extra few cents (comparatively) on the helmet too.

Good luck in your race - it sounds pretty cool!

Good points! This website has some numbers for for 20mph at a 40k distance. Remember always believe everything you read on the internet

To the OP how long is the TT?

If your going to make any physical changes with lowering the bar height you really should have a fitting done to make sure your geometry to the bike is correct.  It's been stated that an improper fit can make you slower because your not in the optimal position to make maximum sustainable power, that's what a TT is all about.  Especially true on a road bike frame geometry.

Oh dump any excess weight on the bike before wondering about water bottle aero affect. 

 




The tt is 10 miles....... only weight I can dump is my superflash taillight... that's partially my original intent for posting: take the aeros off and ride lower, but wider, in the drops or keep the aeros and ride a lil higher than drops but be "narrower". Thanks!
2008-08-12 2:53 PM
in reply to: #1595965

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Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt

"2) not that you asked, but get an aero helmet, tis much bigger benefit than the bars"

Uh, no, don't think so. Position first and foremost.

2008-08-12 3:01 PM
in reply to: #1598088

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: aerobars vs. drops for tt

The position that gives you the most power and aerodynamics is the best.  This may be in the drops, this may be in the aero bars.  But unless you have been set up in each of those positions by someone who knows what they are doing and has ways of measuring the results everything else is just speculation ......

And to clarify an aero helmet is one of the best bang-for-your-buck additions.  There is too little info. to give credible differences in time gains for each aero addition and each riders position.

All the aero goodies are designed to clean up the air resistance.  But they don't mean sh-t if you can't hold your position and make power in it.



Edited by Daremo 2008-08-12 3:02 PM
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