First female Marines attend infantry course

i think it's awesome.  they aren't altering the requirements so women can pass.  there is nothing mixed about this to me.

I'm very conflicted. 

Being able to pass the requirements in bootcamp and being able to serve, day-in day-out, are two very different things.  I hope it ends up being a good thing for everyone involved--the women, the men and readiness on the whole.

could you please elaborate?  if men and women are getting the same exact training to prepare for infantry service, why on earth would they not have an equal chance at succeeding at it?

Because war is different than training. It just is.  General Barrow gives a much better explanation than I ever could.

I hope I'm wrong.  I'd like nothing more than to see this go smoothly and for women who want to be in these roles be able to serve, and be rewarded for their service, in the same ways as men.  I think men and women have different strengths, and I have severe reservations for both the women AND THE MEN serving with the women that this is in everyone's best interest.

i get that, but none of the men have ever been to war, either, and are going on the same training.

Demi Moore was totally hot in GI Jane.

But seriously, I think it's great. They're brave patriots and I wish them well and thank them for their service. I dislike the attitude that these women don't know what they're getting into and we need to protect them from themselves making this decision.

Lots of men who make it through training won't make it as infantry either. 

I hope at this point in my tenure on the forum, people understand where I am on women's rights and feminism in general.  I hope I come across as being very "pro-women."  It is just that in this particular instance I really feel that men and women have different strengths and just because you can make it through training, doesn't mean that the best thing for you, your fellow servicemen or your country is to be put in combat roles. 

I would like nothing more to be wrong, and now time will tell.   I just hope there aren't a lot of people--and missions--hurt along the way.

Then if you do not think they would do as well on the battlefield, then why support them doing the training? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

I actually don't think we should have women in infantry school, or any other tip of the spear training programs, because I don't think they should be in those positions.

But what are we going to do?  What choices do we have?  Lots of proponents point to successful integration of women in combat roles in other countries' militaries.  There are women who want to be in these positions; they think they're capable, some men even think they're capable, and they're also saying that they're not getting the same opportunities for promotion because they don't have the same opportunities to serve as their male counterparts.  I don't want them to fail, but I have a hard time believing this is going to be a net gain.

I applaud the military for keeping the training the same and not lowering the standards for these women.  (That would have been a grave mistake.)  As we now move toward integrating these women into these roles we will hear about the success and failures of this program.  What I know from men who have served in infantry positions, and PLEASE SOMEONE WHO HAS, JUMP IN HERE, is that the training exercises pale in comparison to the rigors of real combat scenarios.  I find this stuff interesting, so I have read a lot of first hand accounts--some from women. Packs in training that were 80lbs, become 120lbs with radios and water for days in combat, for example.  How many women do you know who can hump a 120lb pack for days in rough conditions?  Who's gonna need to pick up that weight when she can't?   

We could move on to more specific, grim war possibilities like what is the rest of the squad going to do when they hear that woman getting raped by the enemy. 

I guess best case scenario is that we hope that they're able to think of her like any other dude on the squad...

Do these women know what they're getting themselves into.  Sure, I wouldn't assume that they don't, and I suppose as well as any person who hasn't been in combat can.  Does that mean they are going to be a net asset to their squad?  Does it mean they are as able as a man to do their job--their job in combat, not in training?  Does it possibly mean that men's lives are going to be at more risk by having women serve along side them?  We'll see.

I think there is a place for women in combat support roles, but I don't think having women in "tip of the spear" positions like infantry is in anyone's best interest.

Why do you hate women?

OK, seriously.  I think i'm in the same boat as you.

My only first person experience was with women on combatant ships.  It seemed like half of them mysteriously got pregnant the month before every deployment.  It sucked.  :-/