General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Why Slower as Season Progresses? Rss Feed  
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2008-08-11 7:06 AM

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Elite
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Cheesehead, WI
Subject: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

Ok, I'm by no stretch of the imagination a fast swimmer, biker or runner. However, over the last couple of years you would think my times would improve wouldn't ya? Take this summer for instance, I've been pretty religious with training - in fact rest days are hard for me to take but it's not like I'm training for IM so I sometimes go a couple of weeks with no rest but also I consider swim days to be 'easier' or recovery days at times. Anyhow... I just did an Olympic yesterday and lets just say I don't know if I ever want to do another one. I sucked wind!

So...why didn't my speeds get better? Is it strictly doing speed work to increase speed? And in particular, why did my bike suck so bad?! I teach a cycling class once a week which I feel helps speed and maybe I needed more long rides outdoors but DANG! My legs were barkin' yesterday as I headed into some light winds/hills and I was bummed I was nearly last in the freakin' race. (race report up shortly)

I'm 45 so its not like I'm ever going to break records...but I'd like to be at least a strong MOP'r. My sprint times were middle - ish but this oly just knocked me off the time charts.

I also took a day rest on Friday and Saturday... which frankly made feel flat but even still... all summer my times just kept slowing (on bike).

So maybe I'm just ranting but any insight???



2008-08-11 7:16 AM
in reply to: #1593630

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Royal(PITA)
14270
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West Chester, Ohio
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

I just peeked at your logs, it appears your hatred of rest days is worse than mine.  Our bodies do need the rest days for recovery.  A lack of consistent rest days is going to make you go slower.  Training too hard all the time is going to make you slower.  The body needs recovery (less strenuous) workouts as well as harder workouts...it also needs days off that are not physically taxing with heavy yard work or other major chores/stresses on it. 

2008-08-11 8:58 AM
in reply to: #1593630

New user
27
25
North Austin
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
Swim days slow you done and could be making you a slow twitcher.  I also tend to think of swim days as recovery days.... I don't really believe that's accurate though.
2008-08-11 9:06 AM
in reply to: #1593630

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Master
1718
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Loughborough, England
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

Are you following a training plan?

Having two days off before a race, in my opinion, is not a good idea.  What works for me is a day off two days out then the day before I just do some very light training just to keep the legs working.

2008-08-11 5:59 PM
in reply to: #1593630

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Master
1732
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Delafield, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
As you know, I see look at your logs almost everyday. What I see is somebody who almost never takes a rest day or recovery weeks. They say that is where the biggest gains come from. I would also agree with your assesment of more time in the saddle outside. I have been suffering from that myself this year. I only started getting better at Olys once I started doing HIMs. Maybe that is what you should do. Don't be so hard on yourself. You hit a big accomplishment. When I did my first Oly (Oshkosh) my time was in the range that you finished. Just keep at it. I think the real secret is finding the Donkey clan before the race.
2008-08-11 10:45 PM
in reply to: #1593630

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Elite
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Cheesehead, WI
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

Thanks Peeps... good stuff and good to know I'm not alone.

And um, not really sure about doing a 1/2 to improve my oly times there jmwebs! LOL (can you just see it now? running coming in with a miner type hat on - ya know with a light on top. finish time 9:56:27)



2008-08-11 11:04 PM
in reply to: #1593630

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Champion
19812
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MA
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
Everyone can have an off day. Was it an off day or a trend in how you have been doing?Where you end up MOP or BOP depends on who shows up, their age, sex, and how they trained. I did a race this year and in 2006. My time this year would have been 2nd in my AG last year but this year I was 8th. Did I do worse? No, just different folks showed up. Longer races I find more serious and competitive athletes tend to show up. I move from MOP to BOP as distance increases.Being 46 myself, I know from doing this I need more rest than most. I've worked with a coach for last 4 years and went from 3 weeks building/1 week to recovery to last year 2 weeks building/1 week recovery, to this year in IM training doing 7 days building/ 3 days resting as I need more recovery time so my workouts are better.When we rest we absorb our training.Do you do speed work? Do you do long workouts? Do you follow a training plan peaking for certain races? Was this Oly an A race?Remember we really only compete against ourselves...did you have fun? Do you enjoy training? Those are the important things.Plus are you feeling your best health wise?
2008-08-12 7:51 AM
in reply to: #1593630

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

Taking rest days or not has little to do with your slow times. Just because some coach made famous the myth that everyone needs a weekly day off doesn't make it right

ANYWAY, I bet your problem is with your training load; IOW the type of training is not adequate for your current specific needs. Maybe you do the same training all the time and your body adapted to the point that you are not pushing it to adapt further. Maybe you are just not training enough; maybe you are not adding the right volume/intensity, etc. Take a look at your logs, make sure you are either following a plan or structuring it in a way which allows you to get fitter every week and add the sessions that your body need.

Good luck!

2008-08-12 7:58 AM
in reply to: #1593630

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Runner
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
Need more volume.
2008-08-12 8:35 AM
in reply to: #1593630

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Extreme Veteran
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Pauls Valley, OK
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

I make a training plan at the beginning of the year that has at least one rest day per week.   I then use my resting heart rate (RHR) to determine if I need additional days off or just easy days.  First thing every morning, before you get out of bed, take your pulse for one minute.  While you are well rested from training get your average RHR.  If one morning I wake up and my RHR has jumped from 51 to 61, I make myself take a rest day.  I am either overtrained or getting sick.  If my RHR has only jumped 5 bpm, I will take an easy day or a rest day.  My times improved after I started this technique.

 Another thing I did that improved my time was to find my Maximum Aerobic Function (MAF).  The local bike club got together and we all determined our maximum heart rate and anaerobic threshold (AT).  My MAF is 150 or 85% of my maximum. I would normally do my tempo runs at my AT, which is 162 or 91% of my max.  150 bpm's felt painfully slow, but my times started getting better.   Amazingly by taking more rest days and running slower, my times got much faster.

 I am not an expert by any means, but this worked for me.



Edited by ray6foot7 2008-08-12 8:36 AM
2008-08-12 8:54 AM
in reply to: #1596556

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
ray6foot7 - 2008-08-12 8:35 AM

I make a training plan at the beginning of the year that has at least one rest day per week.   I then use my resting heart rate (RHR) to determine if I need additional days off or just easy days.  First thing every morning, before you get out of bed, take your pulse for one minute.  While you are well rested from training get your average RHR.  If one morning I wake up and my RHR has jumped from 51 to 61, I make myself take a rest day.  I am either overtrained or getting sick.  If my RHR has only jumped 5 bpm, I will take an easy day or a rest day.  My times improved after I started this technique.

 Another thing I did that improved my time was to find my Maximum Aerobic Function (MAF).  The local bike club got together and we all determined our maximum heart rate and anaerobic threshold (AT).  My MAF is 150 or 85% of my maximum. I would normally do my tempo runs at my AT, which is 162 or 91% of my max.  150 bpm's felt painfully slow, but my times started getting better.   Amazingly by taking more rest days and running slower, my times got much faster.

 I am not an expert by any means, but this worked for me.

what happens if you wake up one AM and your RHR is 5-10 bpm higher and it is not because you 'need' a rest day but because you had a poor night of sleep? or drank too much coffee/beers the night before? or if it is too hot? how do you differentiate it and don't miss a day of training?

And regarding MAF, MHR and AT? Since you are new here it will help if you do a search about those topics. oh and welcome



2008-08-12 9:00 AM
in reply to: #1596446

Expert
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Southeast
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
amiine - 2008-08-12 8:51 AM

Taking rest days or not has little to do with your slow times. Just because some coach made famous the myth that everyone needs a weekly day off doesn't make it right

ANYWAY, I bet your problem is with your training load...

x2.  If I had to guess from looking at your logs (and it is more or less guessing), you need to give yourself a chance to experience the gains that come from recovery after stressing your body.  This doesn't mean taking one day off here and there, but building periods of lower volume into your schedule ('periodization').  This can be psychologically hard to do -- think of it as yet another challenge! 

I know guys in their 50s who haven't changed their training regime for well over a decade -- week in and week out they do the same d--- thing, with no reduced-volume weeks.  They are really fit.  They can run a marathon then go home and paint the house.  But they never get any faster.

2008-08-12 10:00 AM
in reply to: #1596446

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Elite
3067
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Cheesehead, WI
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
amiine - 2008-08-12 7:51 AM

Taking rest days or not has little to do with your slow times. Just because some coach made famous the myth that everyone needs a weekly day off doesn't make it right

ANYWAY, I bet your problem is with your training load; IOW the type of training is not adequate for your current specific needs. Maybe you do the same training all the time and your body adapted to the point that you are not pushing it to adapt further. Maybe you are just not training enough; maybe you are not adding the right volume/intensity, etc. Take a look at your logs, make sure you are either following a plan or structuring it in a way which allows you to get fitter every week and add the sessions that your body need.

Good luck!

what does IOW stand for Amiine?!?! I'm acronym challenged

2008-08-12 10:01 AM
in reply to: #1596852

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Runner
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
IOW = In Other Words.
2008-08-12 12:13 PM
in reply to: #1593630

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Pro
6011
50001000
Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

Everybody is different.  Your slower times could be the result of overtraining, undertraining, poor nutrition, insufficient sleep, too much life/work/family stress, or phychological (depression?).  You need to figure out what your situation is by listening to your body and possibly a little experimenting.

The second year I swam in high school, my times improved throughout the first half of the season, but then began getting slower.  By chance, I learned through a phys ed teacher that I was burning several thousand calories during long training sessions twice a day, but had not increased the quantity or quality of my diet.  I started buying 2 school lunches everyday, and eating more and heathier foods, and my times quickly improved again.

Fastforward 20 years, and now I try to pay a lot of attention to how I feel and what's going on around me to affect my athletic performance, and can normally make any necessary adjustments to get back on track.

2008-08-12 12:38 PM
in reply to: #1593630

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Master
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Lake Oswego, OR
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?
I hate to break the news to you but you are 45 and your body doesn't adapt to physical stress the same way it did when you were 30. When I was swimming Masters at the age of 30, I was always amazed by a 50 year old woman that I trained with. She swam less than I did, but consistently ranked in the top 3 nationally. She taught me the lesson that less is more. Her training was focused on high quality workouts and sufficient time for her body to recover and adapt to the physical stress she subjected it to. If she didn't get enough rest her conditioning suffered. I historically  suffer from overtraining because I hate to take days off from training, but at 55 if I want to get faster I need to take more time off. Ask Dara Torres.

Edited by E=H2O 2008-08-12 12:38 PM


2008-08-12 3:23 PM
in reply to: #1597464

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Elite
3067
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Cheesehead, WI
Subject: RE: Why Slower as Season Progresses?

E=H2O - 2008-08-12 12:38 PM I hate to break the news to you but you are 45 and your body doesn't adapt to physical stress the same way it did when you were 30. When I was swimming Masters at the age of 30, I was always amazed by a 50 year old woman that I trained with. She swam less than I did, but consistently ranked in the top 3 nationally. She taught me the lesson that less is more. Her training was focused on high quality workouts and sufficient time for her body to recover and adapt to the physical stress she subjected it to. If she didn't get enough rest her conditioning suffered. I historically  suffer from overtraining because I hate to take days off from training, but at 55 if I want to get faster I need to take more time off. Ask Dara Torres.

I was afraid I'd hear this. I will have to learn more about age/recovery/training and athletic gains. Maybe I can cross train on 'days of rest'...or I hope so.

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