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2014-01-27 9:08 AM

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Subject: Teaching chess (in school)
I just read an article about a school district that is dropping Algebra II from their mandatory curriculum. I think this is a good move. Most kids would get very little use out of solving polynomials using the quadratic formula or completing the square.

But here is a thought, teach kids to play chess! I don’t think we teach enough critical thinking in school. Chess teaches one to think ahead and to consider consequences. It forces value judgment calls of sacrificing X for Y. It teaches one that we almost always have many options and we need to consider many factors in the decisions we make. It teaches that with reward often comes with risks and that sometimes it is necessary to leave oneself exposed on one front in order to advance on another.

Anyway, I taught my son how to play chess when he was about 5. He is 20 now and I don’t think I’ve beaten him in chess in 4 or 5 years.


2014-01-27 9:24 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

I taught my kids to play chess when they were young as well.  We don't play a lot, but the chess board is always out so we play enough to keep the chess hat on.  I'm not sure about doing away with any part of a math curriculum though...... understanding numbers will always be useful from my way of thinking.

2014-01-27 9:33 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

If they are teaching chess then they should be fair and work in the teaching if checkers into the cirriculum!!!

2014-01-27 10:59 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
My son's elementary school has a chess program that's pretty popular. There are chess tournaments every few months and kids from all over the city compete against one another. The kids learn how to do notation (where they record their moves and their opponents' on paper as they play) and my son's chess instructor reviews their matches with them move by move to help them figure out how they won or lost. It's been really cool to watch. There's a tournament next week, in fact.

Like most extracurriculars in NYC public schools, its not funded by the city, but by the PTA, meaning that it's heavily dependent on how involved the parents are willing and able to be, and how much of the PTA's budget has to be used for things like teachers' supplies and teaching assistant's salaries, rather than for things like chess, but it seems like there are quite a few schools across NYC with chess programs.
2014-01-27 11:03 AM
in reply to: jford2309

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

Originally posted by jford2309

If they are teaching chess then they should be fair and work in the teaching if checkers into the cirriculum!!!

They probably think you could teach your kids how to play checkers on your own.  I bet if you let them know it's over your head they would help out.  

2014-01-27 11:59 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by jford2309

If they are teaching chess then they should be fair and work in the teaching if checkers into the cirriculum!!!

They probably think you could teach your kids how to play checkers on your own.  I bet if you let them know it's over your head they would help out.  

I was actually going for a evolution vs creationism funny  that failed pretty bad. Sorry, I will try harder next time! 



2014-01-27 12:28 PM
in reply to: jmk-brooklyn

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

My son's elementary school has a chess program that's pretty popular. There are chess tournaments every few months and kids from all over the city compete against one another. The kids learn how to do notation (where they record their moves and their opponents' on paper as they play) and my son's chess instructor reviews their matches with them move by move to help them figure out how they won or lost. It's been really cool to watch. There's a tournament next week, in fact.

Like most extracurriculars in NYC public schools, its not funded by the city, but by the PTA, meaning that it's heavily dependent on how involved the parents are willing and able to be, and how much of the PTA's budget has to be used for things like teachers' supplies and teaching assistant's salaries, rather than for things like chess, but it seems like there are quite a few schools across NYC with chess programs.


That is awesome. My son's middle school has a chess club and he played with them a little bit but they never had tournaments. Like you said, it was up to the parents to facilitate and no one really drove the club so it kind of died.
2014-01-27 3:36 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

I'm curious if chess really teaches all of that...  If anything, it may teach being a good competitor.  Good loser and good gracious winner.

In my quest to get good (which didn't amount to much) I got to about a comfortable 1400-1500 rating.  I don't remember learning all that stuff.  For me, it was recognizing patterns and taking space and using pieces in harmony.  Also exchanging pieces of equal value or at times, giving up pieces for space and position.

Maybe it's something I'm missing or just need more time at the board), but I can't see ahead moves like people say you should.  Maybe one or two, but that's about it.  I have certain future goals.  Control a certain square or get a particular piece to a particular hole in my op0ositions's defense.  Their moves my impact what I want to do so I have to adjust.  Anyway, maybe that's why I never got that good at it even with reading and studying problems and classic games and teaching software programs.

Like anything I think instruction would help.

 

PS,   When I read that players like Josh Waitzkin had ratings of 1500-1600 when they were 10?  It blows my mind.



Edited by Kido 2014-01-27 3:38 PM
2014-01-27 3:59 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
Originally posted by Kido

I'm curious if chess really teaches all of that...  If anything, it may teach being a good competitor.  Good loser and good gracious winner.

In my quest to get good (which didn't amount to much) I got to about a comfortable 1400-1500 rating.  I don't remember learning all that stuff.  For me, it was recognizing patterns and taking space and using pieces in harmony.  Also exchanging pieces of equal value or at times, giving up pieces for space and position.

Maybe it's something I'm missing or just need more time at the board), but I can't see ahead moves like people say you should.  Maybe one or two, but that's about it.  I have certain future goals.  Control a certain square or get a particular piece to a particular hole in my op0ositions's defense.  Their moves my impact what I want to do so I have to adjust.  Anyway, maybe that's why I never got that good at it even with reading and studying problems and classic games and teaching software programs.

Like anything I think instruction would help.

 

PS,   When I read that players like Josh Waitzkin had ratings of 1500-1600 when they were 10?  It blows my mind.




You may be right that knowing how to play chess well many not necessarily translate into critical thinking in one's life but I think lessons can be taught using chess analogies. I do think just the discipline of weighing options and evaluating the expected results is a skill that can (should) be used in almost every area of life....and the sooner kids learn this, the better.

I'm probably not commminiting this well.

2014-01-27 7:35 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Kido

I'm curious if chess really teaches all of that...  If anything, it may teach being a good competitor.  Good loser and good gracious winner.

In my quest to get good (which didn't amount to much) I got to about a comfortable 1400-1500 rating.  I don't remember learning all that stuff.  For me, it was recognizing patterns and taking space and using pieces in harmony.  Also exchanging pieces of equal value or at times, giving up pieces for space and position.

Maybe it's something I'm missing or just need more time at the board), but I can't see ahead moves like people say you should.  Maybe one or two, but that's about it.  I have certain future goals.  Control a certain square or get a particular piece to a particular hole in my op0ositions's defense.  Their moves my impact what I want to do so I have to adjust.  Anyway, maybe that's why I never got that good at it even with reading and studying problems and classic games and teaching software programs.

Like anything I think instruction would help.

 

PS,   When I read that players like Josh Waitzkin had ratings of 1500-1600 when they were 10?  It blows my mind.

You may be right that knowing how to play chess well many not necessarily translate into critical thinking in one's life but I think lessons can be taught using chess analogies. I do think just the discipline of weighing options and evaluating the expected results is a skill that can (should) be used in almost every area of life....and the sooner kids learn this, the better. I'm probably not commminiting this well.

 

This is, hands down, the most important thing kids can learn from chess.  Being able to "take the long view" and understand the COSTS and benefits of acting NOW (as opposed to just the benefits) is a huge skill that so many people are lacking.

 

2014-01-28 11:38 AM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
Originally posted by Kido

When I read that players like Josh Waitzkin had ratings of 1500-1600 when they were 10?  It blows my mind.




I don't understand the ratings, but my kid is in his school's chess club (awesome stuff). The state rankings have a 1st grader (so 6yo?) with a rating of right at 1400.







2014-01-28 7:09 PM
in reply to: Goosedog

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

Originally posted by Goosedog
Originally posted by Kido When I read that players like Josh Waitzkin had ratings of 1500-1600 when they were 10?  It blows my mind.
I don't understand the ratings, but my kid is in his school's chess club (awesome stuff). The state rankings have a 1st grader (so 6yo?) with a rating of right at 1400.

 

Sounds like Kido could totally dominate that dojo.

2014-01-28 10:02 PM
in reply to: moondawg14

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

I actually am a chess teacher!   I teach elementary kids  grades 1-6  at several schools.

Me: "BOYS!  the pieces do not actually fight with each other!!!  OK?" 

       "Chess is a quiet sport" 

Kids:  "It's a sport?  See I told YOU!!"    How come there isn't a ball?"


 I would never advocate chess over a math program.

Chess concepts learned at an early age, are life long lessons on how to think strategically.      I love it when I see the change in a kids face when "they get it"  and all of a sudden can see all their moves on the board and what the ramifications are down the line.       It's so awesome.

 

 

 

 

 

2014-01-29 1:24 PM
in reply to: 0

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)

Originally posted by Goosedog
Originally posted by Kido When I read that players like Josh Waitzkin had ratings of 1500-1600 when they were 10?  It blows my mind.
I don't understand the ratings, but my kid is in his school's chess club (awesome stuff). The state rankings have a 1st grader (so 6yo?) with a rating of right at 1400.

I'm pulling from my memory about Josh Waitzkin.  It may have been higher.  As for my chess rating, I'm recalling what FICS gives me after playing online live games.

It's a pretty simple system (where they got their numbers, I'm not sure).

It's sort of a handicap, in a way (like golf).  If a 1400 plays a 1400, the winner will get something like 20 points and move up to 1420.  Loser loses 20 and moves to 1380 and a draw is no change.

If a 1500 plays a 1300.  If the 1300 wins, they may get 35 points.  A draw they may get 10 points and a lost may only be -5.  So the points won or lost depends on the skill level of your opponent.  theoretically,  a 1400 could play a lot of lower levels and only win a point at a time, but their rating will increase.  (there is a limit to that though.  A master playing me can't get a point at all).  If they play another 1400, they could get killed.

Obviously, the more you play other ranked players, your rating will be more accurate to the masses of who play.  In my head, 1800 is pretty darned good and 2000 is master status.  1600 would even be a lot of work to get to unless something "clicks" for me.  I seem to hover around 1400.

There are other systems but they are rarely used.  I'm not sure what the kids use or if it's different.

 

From wiki:

Elo rating system

FIDE classifies tournaments into categories according to the average rating of the players. Each category is 25 rating points wide. Category 1 is for an average rating of 2251 to 2275, category 2 is 2276 to 2300, etc. For women's tournaments, the categories are 200 rating points lower, so a Category 1 is an average rating of 2051 to 2075, etc.[1]

Elo scales, 1978[2]
Rating rangeCategory
2600+World Championship contenders
2400–2600most Grandmasters (GM) and International Masters (IM)
2300–2400FIDE Masters (FM)
2200–2300FIDE Candidate Masters (CM), most national masters
2000–2200candidate masters, experts (USA)
1800–2000Class A, category 1
1600–1800Class B, category 2
1400–1600Class C, category 3
1200–1400Class D, category 4
below 1200novices

The USCF uses a modification of the Elo system, where the K factor varies and there are bonus points for superior performance in a tournament. The USCF classifies players according to their rating (Just & Burg 2003:259–73). USCF ratings are generally 50 to 100 points higher than the FIDE equivalents (Just & Burg 2003:112).

USCF rating categories
CategoryRating range
Senior master2400 and up
National master2200–2399
Expert2000–2199
Class A1800–1999
Class B1600–1799
Class C1400–1599
Class D1200–1399
Class E1000–1199
Class F800–999
Class G600–799
Class H400–599
Class I200–399
Class J100–199

 

I'm not sure why they would have classes I and J.  Seems if you know the rules of chess and SOME idea of strategy, you can be G or H.



Edited by Kido 2014-01-29 1:26 PM
2014-01-29 2:39 PM
in reply to: Kido

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
Originally posted by Kido

I'm curious if chess really teaches all of that...  If anything, it may teach being a good competitor.  Good loser and good gracious winner.




For us, that's been the most valuable thing our son's gotten out of it, especially from the tournament he was in. Most sports and competitive activities for kids at his age (4th grade) are team-oriented, and even when they're individual sports, they tend to be "side by side", like skiing, horseback riding and track vs "head to head" like wrestling or fencing. Understanding how to "play your opponent" is an important skill to learn if you want to be competive at one-on-one sports/games and it's not something that kids can easily learn on a soccer field or in the pool.
2014-01-29 5:25 PM
in reply to: #4939179

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
When it comes to athletics my son, like me, was born in the shallow end of the gene pool. I remember him playing basketball at about age 7 and the people next to me in the stands pointing and laughing at 'that kid skipping up and frown the court'. Yes, that was MY kid. LOL. Oh well, he was having fun. But when it came to academics and chess, he led pack....ended up with a full academic scholarship in electrical engineering and pre law.

Interesting to hear it called a sport. :-).


2014-01-29 5:54 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
I'm all for anything that would teach focus, delayed gratification, and strategic thinking to kids, especially in the guise of fun. I'm a teacher and I do think math (my favorite subject) is important; how much for whom at what stage is debatable but much of it IS useful for many jobs/situations until one gets into some of the higher level high school courses. At any rate, the US lags behind most developed countries in the quality of math/science preparation of our workforce, so I wouldn't advocate replacing math with chess. More of both!

That being said, I have always been totally baffled by chess despite several attempts to learn. I can't remember where things are on the board and where I want them to be more than one step ahead. It probably explains a lot about my life. But I admire people who do have that kind of intelligence--they earn a lot more money than I do.
2014-01-29 9:50 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by Kido


I'm probably not commminiting this well.




I'm still trying to figure this out........
2014-01-30 11:40 AM
in reply to: japarker24

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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
Originally posted by japarker24

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by Kido


I'm probably not commminiting this well.




I'm still trying to figure this out........


Figure what out?


I did not suggest we teach chess in lieu of math. I actually have a minor in math (almost inherent in my electrical engineering degree) and I know the value of math education. But I do not think all kids need to take algebra II. I would suggest HS taking Algebra 1, Gemotry and Trig.

On a seperate but educational related note, I think schools ought to teach chess starting in grammer school. I think this trains the mind to reason and to think ahead and anticipate consequence and also how to respond and replan to unintended consequences. How to simultaneously play offence and defense. How to make value decisions....such as seeing the foolishness of trading a pawn for a rook.

I have always told people that an engineering degree treaches very little about real world problems but it teaches an engineering methodology....and disciplined approach to problem solving. Similarily, I think chess helps tain young minds.
2014-01-30 9:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Teaching chess (in school)
Originally posted by oriolepwr
I love it when I see the change in a kids face when "they get it"  and all of a sudden can see all their moves on the board and what the ramifications are down the line.      


Possibly the best scene in any movie I've ever seen (although this cuts it a bit short): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSgY_VfG6Q







Edited by Goosedog 2014-01-30 9:47 PM
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