Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons.
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General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. | Rss Feed |
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2009-09-05 10:38 AM |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. After a month of getting acclimated and changing my running stride to more of a midfoot/forefoot stride, I have to say that I'm 100% in love with my Newton shoes. I typically do HR-based training rather than pace-based, and I've literally seen improvements of 0:30/mile in a given HR zone on the same run. I don't think it's as much an attribute of the shoe as it is improving my running form, but the cool thing about the Newtons is that they definitely promote the forefoot/midfoot stride. I will say that my club is sponsored by Newton so I got special pricing, but I'm glad it gave me the opportunity to try their shoes (and more importantly their philosophy on running form) because I'm totally hooked. |
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2009-09-05 11:44 AM in reply to: #2391185 |
New user 163 | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. Depending on how much a of a discount your club got you, you might try buying the next pair with a military discount. If I remember correctly, it's almost half off. You have to email someone on the Newton website to get it (I forgot who) but it is relatively easy to due. For active duty military, that is, which you are, if I remember correctly. Anyways, I love my Newtons because they are the only shoe I can run sockless in and not get blisters. That, and they do promote forefoot strides. Mostly the sockless thing, though. |
2009-09-05 11:47 AM in reply to: #2391185 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2009-09-05 11:56 AM in reply to: #2391259 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. caelric - 2009-09-05 12:44 PM Depending on how much a of a discount your club got you, you might try buying the next pair with a military discount. If I remember correctly, it's almost half off. You have to email someone on the Newton website to get it (I forgot who) but it is relatively easy to due. For active duty military, that is, which you are, if I remember correctly. Anyways, I love my Newtons because they are the only shoe I can run sockless in and not get blisters. That, and they do promote forefoot strides. Mostly the sockless thing, though. It's the Army Tri Club, so the discount is quite nice. |
2009-09-05 11:58 AM in reply to: #2391261 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. PennState - 2009-09-05 12:47 PM I don't know which to shake my head at more Pete. 1. The fact that you are trying to convert to forefoot/midfoot running... or 2. The fact that you are using Newtons to do this. Seriously... what are you thinking??? Take it from a guy who tried to change his running form and is still paying for that mistake... dump the Newtons and run the way you naturally run. Just my worthless opinion. If I swam inefficiently, you'd tell me to work on my stroke, wouldn't you? If my "natural" cadence were 50rpm on the bike and I sucked, you'd tell me to work on pedaling at a faster cadence, wouldn't you? You seem to be saying that form is completely irrelevant to running. Regardless, I'm running with less pain, and at a faster pace for a given RPE than before. I'll take it. Edited by DrPete 2009-09-05 11:59 AM |
2009-09-05 12:03 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. When I changed my running form when I was 44 or 45 I had run injuries on and off for 18 months mostly on for the first 12 months. Older you are the harder on your body it is to change your running form. |
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2009-09-05 12:04 PM in reply to: #2391273 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. DrPete - 2009-09-05 12:58 PM PennState - 2009-09-05 12:47 PM I don't know which to shake my head at more Pete. 1. The fact that you are trying to convert to forefoot/midfoot running... or 2. The fact that you are using Newtons to do this. Seriously... what are you thinking??? Take it from a guy who tried to change his running form and is still paying for that mistake... dump the Newtons and run the way you naturally run. Just my worthless opinion. If I swam inefficiently, you'd tell me to work on my stroke, wouldn't you? If my "natural" cadence were 50rpm on the bike and I sucked, you'd tell me to work on pedaling at a faster cadence, wouldn't you? You seem to be saying that form is completely irrelevant to running. Regardless, I'm running with less pain, and at a faster pace for a given RPE than before. I'll take it. I would have to agree with you here. I have had to do the same thing in the past to fix certain issues with recurring injuries and to change pace....but :30 in month? Seriously? Were you running one mile? |
2009-09-05 12:07 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. It was a 10K, and I haven't been training nearly as much as I could/should have been due to a hectic work schedule, so I haven't been doing any targeted run training or anything--just changing my form. |
2009-09-05 12:08 PM in reply to: #2391285 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. KathyG - 2009-09-05 1:03 PM When I changed my running form when I was 44 or 45 I had run injuries on and off for 18 months mostly on for the first 12 months. Older you are the harder on your body it is to change your running form. I think that's true for anything... So far, so good for this 32-year old. |
2009-09-05 12:28 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by PennState 2009-09-05 12:29 PM |
2009-09-05 12:54 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. I've gone from heel to mid-foot focus just recently and have notice big improvements as well...I actually did it after reading the Training Bible where he suggests not going all the way from heel to toe at risk of injury but shifting focus to get efficient at becoming a mid foot striker. It feels way better to me and I feel better after my runs too. So, I'm with you for DrPete, hopefully I don't come back in a month posting how I'm injured...I don't have newton shoes though. Just regular Brooks Ghost2 |
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2009-09-05 1:41 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. I misunderstood the title. I thought you were someone who shared my passion for Fig Newtons |
2009-09-05 2:22 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Veteran 195 Millstadt, IL | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. I don't wear newton's, but I did change my form to a shorter stride and a mid-foot strike, and my legs have never felt better. While everyone is different, it's a bit absurd to say anyone who changes their stride is going to get injured. What about the legions of runners who are already injured and don't change anything? As the saying goes, if you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got. |
2009-09-05 2:26 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. Let me just state this nice and clear for the umpteen millionth time. THERE ......... IS ........... ABSOLUTELY ........ NOTHING ........ WRONG ........ WITH .......... BEING ........ A HEEL ......... STRIKER. Clear enough for everyone?? I wish triathletes would just get away from believing all the bullsh-t they read and hear about. If it was such a big deal you'd think every single true running coach would be all over it. If triathletes would actually pay attention and stop looking for the magic pill, they see running coaches all say the same thing - worry about WHERE your foot hits the ground, NOT what part of it hits first. |
2009-09-05 2:29 PM in reply to: #2391389 |
Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. E=H2O - 2009-09-05 11:41 AM I misunderstood the title. I thought you were someone who shared my passion for Fig Newtons Word |
2009-09-05 2:30 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. I wish my asics game in the color schemes the newtons come in. seriously, that's the only reason I want them. |
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2009-09-05 2:36 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Veteran 318 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. So question for Daremo and Pennstate. I am really new to running, so I want to know. Dr. Pete, stated that he is going faster at the same HR zone. Which to me sounds pretty good. Is this a deal where if someone does change their form like this, they need to go back and kind of re-do a lot of their running base to try to prevent an injury? I assume that is why Pennstate is thinking he is going to get injured, just changing form and running too much too quick. I am curious, just because I am a noob. Daremo, I am hearing what you are saying too, I am simply saying if he is faster this way, regardless of where his foot strikes, what does he need to do to prevent an injury? |
2009-09-05 2:59 PM in reply to: #2391446 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2009-09-05 3:15 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. Agreed that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with heel striking, but I did have an overstriding problem. I also got the original idea from Friel. Regardless, I'm not saying that heel striking is horrible for everyone. For me, though, the combination of getting a bit more forward, shortening my stride, and not landing directly on my heel has helped a lot. I had noticed this in my Nikes as well, but they don't have the same cushioning in the forefoot as the Newtons. Edited by DrPete 2009-09-05 3:17 PM |
2009-09-05 3:34 PM in reply to: #2391479 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. PennState - 2009-09-05 3:59 PM shad01 - 2009-09-05 3:36 PM So question for Daremo and Pennstate. I am really new to running, so I want to know. Dr. Pete, stated that he is going faster at the same HR zone. Which to me sounds pretty good. Is this a deal where if someone does change their form like this, they need to go back and kind of re-do a lot of their running base to try to prevent an injury? I assume that is why Pennstate is thinking he is going to get injured, just changing form and running too much too quick. I am curious, just because I am a noob. Daremo, I am hearing what you are saying too, I am simply saying if he is faster this way, regardless of where his foot strikes, what does he need to do to prevent an injury? There is no science (and yes it has been studied) that landing on your heel is slower than mid/fore foot. There is some truth in the statement that overstriding (landing your foot in front of your center of gravity) has a slowing affect. Essentially you are breaking a bit each time you land, which is not good. Ways to avoid injury... 1. Don't increase your mileage too quickly. Consider the 10% rule. 2. Listen to your body... when you hurt listen! 3. Run naturally. Seriously. Ignore the forefoot stuff. Some of the fastest marathoners in the world heel strike. 4. Do not fall for gimicky things like POSE running, forefoot/midfoot stuff. If you run this way naturally, that's fine. Don't make your body do this. Accept who you are. Lastly, Pete is running more. That's why he is faster. It is not the Newton's. It's not the landing on the forefoot. He may not believe that... I am just telling you my opinion. The "science" on this subject is pretty much garbage on all sides of the debate, so we can throw that out the window up front. Trying to quote evidence in this debate is like finding the latest scientific manuscript on the best religion. I also totally respect that you have infinitely more tri experience than I do, but I'm still not getting your zeal in saying that whatever way I ran the first time I tried it is the way I should keep running forever. If that's the case, then running is the only sport in the entire world where form and technique don't matter at all, and that just doesn't make sense. It took a good few years for me to develop a nice round pedal stroke, for instance, or to find my best sprinting form on the bike. Go to any tri and it's painfully obvious that not everyone has good technique on the bike. The fact that I can turn a 23mph bike split and smoke guys who can run 2:00 per mile faster than me is evidence that technique matters. Guys mashing on the pedals, turning a slow cadence, not knowing how to shift-- you'd never tell these guys to just keep doing what they're doing, would you? There are a ton of sports where "what comes naturally" won't work, and I'm not seeing why running is an exception. I've listened to rule #1 the whole time. As for #2, I have LESS pain than I did heel striking--that includes knees and lower back. I have no injuries as a result of the new technique. So I'm listening to my body, and like what I hear. Edited by DrPete 2009-09-05 3:35 PM |
2009-09-05 3:53 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
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2009-09-05 4:03 PM in reply to: #2391531 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. PennState - 2009-09-05 4:53 PM Pete, you are a smart guy... I am just voicing my opinion. I have a friend (a research PT at PSU) who has published on this subject and have read a lot. I made the same arguements...about form and the need to improve. I was you last year...and I greatly regret my decision. I wouldn't have chimed in for anyone on this topic (Rick would have ), but I was really trying to provide info/help for you personally. Just be smart Definitely. Rules 1 and 2 are still in full force. |
2009-09-05 5:04 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Elite 2796 Texas | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. I gave Newtons a fair shake but I can't say they helped or hurt. I had some injuries going in and after a few months I opted for long term rest before I ran in them much. When I started back to running I was in my Brooks shoes and I was running pain free (still am) so I didn't want to mess with a good thing. One thing I'll say, when I called their customer service number in 2007 with a question, I was put on hold and Danny Abshire (co-founder/designer) got on the phone and spoke with me for about 30 minutes teaching me about his intent with the shoe design and how to get started with them. That level of service alone was enough for me to try them out. Edited by Bill 2009-09-05 5:05 PM |
2009-09-05 5:04 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. I used to heel strike for years and was very sucessful. Coming back at 6 years later, I seemed to get injured over and over. I tried mid foot striking and my injuries have went down signifigantly. I can't say its faster because I'm slower these days, but I seem to be less injury prone. I'm not a big fan of 'Running Natural'. Why is it every sport we do, or almost anything else we do in life technique has to be taught but not with running? I do think there is proper form in both mid and heel striking and with many it needs to be taught. I also don't think either way is better just different. I call it push running and pull running. Heel strikers tend to pull through thier stride with a more upright stance, whereas mid footers tend to push as they lean forward more. |
2009-09-05 5:07 PM in reply to: #2391185 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Well, I know which side of the love/hate thing I'm on... I LOVE my Newtons. Oh, and as far as the Newtons go, its a mixed bag, I love the feel but my small left toe rubs on a stitching area that irritates it. I keep planning on contacting Newton about it but I keep putting it off. |
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