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2007-05-11 1:01 PM

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2007-05-11 1:12 PM
in reply to: #797345

Pro
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Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....
Are you aware of anything having happened recently with him, or was this just a spontaneous change in attitude?
2007-05-11 1:14 PM
in reply to: #797345

Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

If you want them to ignore the age situation then you have to as well.  Drop it, it's not the issue.  You may THINK you don't act like it is, but if its in your mind you never know how you might subconsciously be sending off signals.  When I've had problems with people who work for me I usually look back later and at least half the time they had not gotten better or worse, but when I'm under more pressure/time crunch I don't handle their need for help as well as when I have time. 

Your boss is right.  As the person in charge you need to figure out how to make it work.  Even if there are completely different reasons for it if something similar to this happened in the past and now happens again it will be seen as a reflection on your ability to manage other people.  Not everyone, like your boss, will know you and the people involved well enough to know or care whose actual fault it is.

2007-05-11 1:18 PM
in reply to: #797373

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2007-05-11 1:19 PM
in reply to: #797345

Giver
18427
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

Rynamite - 2007-05-11 2:01 PM  How do you handle it? What do you do to gain their respect? 

Wear your pants a little higher. 

2007-05-11 1:23 PM
in reply to: #797345

Champion
5874
50005001001001002525
Milton, GA
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....
Does this guy know that he is working towards your position?  Could it be that in his mind he is trying to prove that he already knows more than you or could do a better job than you if he had your job now?


2007-05-11 1:25 PM
in reply to: #797345

Champion
6786
50001000500100100252525
Two seat rocket plane
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

The guys he works with are all 20-21 and complete boneheads. They don't care about anything, they're always taking smoking breaks,

 

There's your problem, right there......

The culture he is in (bonehead work-monkey) is not the culture (management) you want him to be in. Maybe it's time to explain to him what you really expect him to do/act like.

2007-05-11 1:27 PM
in reply to: #797345

Buttercup
14334
500050002000200010010010025
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

I usually make them cry but I don't think that's the route you want to take.

Doesn't sound like an age thing. Sounds like an interpersonal thing. You say you're stern; I assume this is your way of saying "take me seriously" and as a manager, you do want folks to take you seriously. However, you can still be friendly (rather than stern) and be taken seriously. If I had a boss who was always stern, I'd probably jokingly ask if he had a constipation problem. In fact, I did have a boss who was always stern; he did have a constipation problem. But I digress...

Being taken seriously is pretty simple - set expectations, make sure your employees know what the expectations are, then hold them to it. That last part is key - your employees need to know that they will be held accountable. Hold them accountable in a friendly manner, however. Don't assume you know what they are thinking about you or what attitude they might have towards you - that will only make you resentful and spoil for a confrontation.

I also highly recommend that you read "How To Win Friends & Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.  First rule, I believe, is "Begin in a friendly way."

By the way, a sense of humor is a very good management tool to keep in your toolbox.



Edited by Renee 2007-05-11 1:33 PM
2007-05-11 1:33 PM
in reply to: #797383

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2007-05-11 1:41 PM
in reply to: #797418

Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....
Rynamite - 2007-05-11 1:33 PM
hangloose - 2007-05-11 2:14 PM

If you want them to ignore the age situation then you have to as well.  Drop it, it's not the issue.  You may THINK you don't act like it is, but if its in your mind you never know how you might subconsciously be sending off signals.  When I've had problems with people who work for me I usually look back later and at least half the time they had not gotten better or worse, but when I'm under more pressure/time crunch I don't handle their need for help as well as when I have time. 

Your boss is right.  As the person in charge you need to figure out how to make it work.  Even if there are completely different reasons for it if something similar to this happened in the past and now happens again it will be seen as a reflection on your ability to manage other people.  Not everyone, like your boss, will know you and the people involved well enough to know or care whose actual fault it is.

I agree... and honestly I hardly even think about it. I think it's an issue because I get asked "So how'd you get in the office?" or "Must be nice to get an office job." Obviously that sucks because I know that I worked my butt off to get where I am. I've been here longer than most of the other people here even though I'm younger. But people always ask me how I got an office job. Obviously it annoys me... how do they think I got in the office???

How do you respond?  "I've been here 7 years and worked my butt off" is accurate but might make you sound defensive.  I'd respond with a cryptic "Ask around." or depending on who is asking I'd say "I slept with the boss."

You're not the only person to have to deal with this.  Its harder when you are younger AND your last name is on the front door.  But in day to day dealings they come to recognize that you know your .  Especially when something goes wrong and they come to you for help and you either know the solution that they didn't or you "get dirty" working it out side by side with them. 

And regarding "work-monkey" brain.  That is unconquerable, in my experience.  If he's got it, forget it.  He's not going to change.  That's not to say he can't be a great employee.  I've got guys who've worked for me for 10 years and they are great but they are just never going to care like I do.  And that's fine, their jobs don't require them to.

2007-05-11 1:45 PM
in reply to: #797410

Pro
4040
2000200025
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....
Renee - 2007-05-11 2:27 PM

I usually make them cry but I don't think that's the route you want to take.

Doesn't sound like an age thing. Sounds like an interpersonal thing. You say you're stern; I assume this is your way of saying "take me seriously" and as a manager, you do want folks to take you seriously. However, you can still be friendly (rather than stern) and be taken seriously. If I had a boss who was always stern, I'd probably jokingly ask if he had a constipation problem. In fact, I did have a boss who was always stern; he did have a constipation problem. But I digress...

Being taken seriously is pretty simple - set expectations, make sure your employees know what the expectations are, then hold them to it. That last part is key - your employees need to know that they will be held accountable. Hold them accountable in a friendly manner, however. Don't assume you know what they are thinking about you or what attitude they might have towards you - that will only make you resentful and spoil for a confrontation.

I also highly recommend that you read "How To Win Friends & Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.  First rule, I believe, is "Begin in a friendly way."

By the way, a sense of humor is a very good management tool to keep in your toolbox.



Yeah, what she said! Authority is something that you don't want to have to exert. I have a senior guy (more years in the business than me, more technical knowledge) on my team who has poor impulse control and sometimes speaks out of turn. If he does, I speak to him privately and tell him that what he did was wrong, and his being a loose cannon shows disrespect to me and the rest of the team. He knows that if he makes a habit of it, he will be using the office door for the last time soon. But I don't take his poor judgement personally.

The quickest way to lose people's respect is to be seen demanding rather than earning respect.

Also, have a management toolbox, don't be a tool.


2007-05-11 1:46 PM
in reply to: #797410

Subject: ...
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Edited by Rynamite 2007-05-11 1:56 PM
2007-05-11 1:56 PM
in reply to: #797435

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2007-05-11 2:13 PM
in reply to: #797345

Champion
8903
500020001000500100100100100
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

OK, I'm 58 and here's my take on working for someone much younger than me.

1.  Introduce yourself right away.  Ask about my job, how long I've been doing it, any problems that I've had over the years.  Ask about ways that improvements could be made.  Anyone with experience at doing something for a long time will have a laundry list of suggestions.

2.  Ask why I think those improvements haven't been made in the past, and what can be done to change that.

3.  If you think what I'm doing can be done more efficiently, bring up those suggestions in a manner that makes it seem like it's both our ideas together, not just some agenda that you're trying to push.  Basically, don't tell me how to do my job, let's discuss how to improve my job.

4.  Get to know me beyond the job and the workplace.  Ask about my family, how many kids, grandkids, etc I have.  Find out something unique about me...i.e. my wife is disabled so ask about her often.

5.  Admit that you're the first person who doesn't know 100% about the company and about company practices, and make a suggestion that I can advise you as well as vice versa.  Travel is more enjoyable when it's on a two way street.

6.  Have frequent progress reports and meetings, ask for updates and suggestions to improve or change things on the fly.  Nothing is worse than an obstinate old git, who blindly sticks to the course, refusing to waiver.  And that includes me as well as you.

 

2007-05-11 2:54 PM
in reply to: #797345

Master
2356
20001001001002525
Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....
Level with the guy. Tell him that you'd like to see him move up with your company (don't say your job), but it seems like his attitude has really changed. Give some very specific examples of the changes, then tell him what you expect out of him. Tell him what he needs to do to change your perception.

As the young guy in the company with the most experience, honesty and straight-forward communication are your most direct ways to earn respect. Showing your might will not do it.


Editted to add: I am 31yo. I have a 55, 40, 35, 27, and 25yo crew of departmental managers that report to me. In the past, I had a 67 yo guy as a direct report, that I later fired, and I'm considering hiring a 71 yo guy right now. Those old fart sure know how to get stuff done!


Edited by matt3liv 2007-05-11 3:06 PM
2007-05-11 2:54 PM
in reply to: #797345

Master
2571
20005002525
Tiger's Den
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

Nothing much to add, just thought I'd share an experience.

I majored in Textile Management in college. At the time of graduation, Textile Management jobs were plentiful, and I had one right out of college.

I went to work (after a 9 month training period) as a 2nd shift supervisor in weave room (jacquard weaving mill). Not only was I 22 years old, but I was a girl, and this company had never had a female supervisor of any age in the weave room. My plant manager had told me that I would have a hard time being accepted because of my age and my gender and so I needed to be on my toes about it, so to speak.

So on my first shift, I went up to the oldest, most crusty loom fixer (mechanic) in the department. He rarely spoke, smoked all the time, and in general gave everyone dirty looks that said "you don't know squat." I asked him in a very friendly but serious way if he had a problem working for me considering my age and the fact that I was a girl. I wanted to lay it all out on the table and get it over with if it was going to be a problem.

He kind of chuckled and looked at me and said "M'am, I've been working my whole life for my mother and then my wife. This ain't no different." 

It wasn't long after that that I realized that the problems dealing with  me being a girl and being so young were not going to be with the people I was supervising, but rather those supervising me. I guess I was more of a threat to the latter than the former. I would never take the mechanics job, the the deparment manager's job was another matter....

 



2007-05-11 3:08 PM
in reply to: #797579

Master
2356
20001001001002525
Fenton, MI
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....
SuzanneS - 2007-05-11 3:54 PM

Nothing much to add, just thought I'd share an experience.

I majored in Textile Management in college. At the time of graduation, Textile Management jobs were plentiful, and I had one right out of college.

I went to work (after a 9 month training period) as a 2nd shift supervisor in weave room (jacquard weaving mill). Not only was I 22 years old, but I was a girl, and this company had never had a female supervisor of any age in the weave room. My plant manager had told me that I would have a hard time being accepted because of my age and my gender and so I needed to be on my toes about it, so to speak.

So on my first shift, I went up to the oldest, most crusty loom fixer (mechanic) in the department. He rarely spoke, smoked all the time, and in general gave everyone dirty looks that said "you don't know squat." I asked him in a very friendly but serious way if he had a problem working for me considering my age and the fact that I was a girl. I wanted to lay it all out on the table and get it over with if it was going to be a problem.

He kind of chuckled and looked at me and said "M'am, I've been working my whole life for my mother and then my wife. This ain't no different."

It wasn't long after that that I realized that the problems dealing with me being a girl and being so young were not going to be with the people I was supervising, but rather those supervising me. I guess I was more of a threat to the latter than the former. I would never take the mechanics job, the the deparment manager's job was another matter....



Good, no, great story.
2007-05-11 3:12 PM
in reply to: #797345

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....
The problem here is not one of age difference, but a problem with peer pressure from his co-workers.  Why not pull this person aside and tell him what you are telling us, that he is in line for a promotion, that asking questions and suggesting new and better ways of doing things is an asset but that his newfound habit of questioning everything you do is not.  Let him know in no uncertain terms that his questioning you at every turn is insulting and that he can do things "his way" when he gravitates to your position.  Until that time, you expect some modicome of respect just as he will expect it from the employees when he is in your position.  
2007-05-11 3:18 PM
in reply to: #797345

Runner
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

I've dealt with this in a number of different instances.  Usually it's not an age thing so much as it is an experience / knowledge thing.

I would pull the guy aside and discuss the issue.  Find out what his issue is.  Don't be mean about it; tell him that you're truly interested in hearing some of his opinions, and that he's not going to lose his job or get written up for expressing his thoughts.

If his attitude is disruptive, i.e. he is causing issues amongst the other workers, then it becomes a much bigger problem.  That's definitely something to nip in the bud quickly and quietly. 

2007-05-11 4:19 PM
in reply to: #797345

Champion
7558
500020005002525
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

As a start, go back and re-read your original post. 

Would you WANT to work for someone like that? 

Are you a BOSS?  A LEADER?  Or a MANAGER? 

(I'm not asking which you think you should be or your title in the company, but which of these is backed up by your actions.

A boss rarely commands respect (only compliance). 

This guy you hired is probably pretty sharp.  Maybe sharp enough to know the right things to say in an interview to get a job.  That doesn't mean he intends to do those things now.  If it doesn't work out, don't pass him to another person to deal with, and don't tolerate poor performance because training new people is hard (that's why they're paying you the big bucks).  

2007-05-11 4:26 PM
in reply to: #797345

Elite
2421
2000100100100100
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

Toss 'im a beatin'.  There's nothing like having to pick yourself up off the floor in front of a room full of your peers to give you a heapin' helpin' of humility.

bts



2007-05-11 7:01 PM
in reply to: #797444

Coach
9167
5000200020001002525
Stairway to Seven
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....


I'm stern, but that's my personality. I expect things to be done correctly and quickly, and I'll tell you about it if I think it needs done differently.



My first thought before reading any further is that it sounds like you're micromanaging.

Then you wrote this:

Rynamite - 2007-05-11 12:46 PM

I'm stern when I need to be, and easy going the rest of the time. I never micromanage, and try to let them make some decisions for themselves like big boys.



People who aren't micromanaged make a lot of decisions (not some).

Without knowingg anything about your company or what you do, I can't say that you are doing things good or bad, right or wrong.

I am a physician and younger than almost all of my nurses, techs, xray guys, housekeepers, secretaries, etc. Staff routinely despise physicians because they tend to talk down to people and tell them how things should be done. I respect everyone for their experience, and let them know what my expectations are and let them figure out how best to do it and how to manage their own workload. As long as patients are safe, they get to decide how to best meet all their job demands, at least from my point of view.

Edited by AdventureBear 2007-05-11 7:04 PM
2007-05-11 8:19 PM
in reply to: #797345

Elite
3130
2000100010025
Subject: RE: Getting older people to respect you....

 

Use the word "pwn3d" more often in your e-mails to him

 

2007-05-11 11:23 PM
in reply to: #797802

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2007-05-11 11:35 PM
in reply to: #797704

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