did not want to hijack the aerohelmet thread, so here goes my ?

Would it have made a difference?  Yes.

Can it be quantified?  Not precisely.  In some cases only very generally or even not at all.

For your tires, if you use ones with lower rolling resistance, you will be faster.  FOP, MOP, BOP, doesn't matter.  Same for any aero doo dads (wheels, bikes, helmets, etc.).  Some of the aero doo dads depend upon rider position, wind conditions, etc. so 'savings' may be greater or less than any kind of 'test' you might see.

I found this in a book Swim Bike Run (Wes Hobson et. al).  Of course he fails to tell where it came from or even the distance over which he is referring to.  I have found it in a cycling website as well and similar results for a 40TT (24.8miles)

Aero bars 3.5 minutes, Aerobar end shifter 1.5, Aero drink system 0.5, Aero helmet 1, 18-mm tubulars @ 150 psi 0.5, Deep rim front wheen 1, Disc wheel 1.5, Aeor Frame 0.5 

Best bang for buck is in the order they are listed. 

The rep is full of crap .........

Here is a link to a reprint of that info from my LBS's Website:

http://www.nytro.com/Articles.asp?ID=118

That does not even pass a simple sniff test. Drag increases exponentially as speed increases and is a smooth curve. (IE: It does not magically go from Zero to something at some arbitrary speed like 20 MPH)

What some would say (and I would not argue) is that at higher speeds aerodynamics becomes much more important as it relates to your effort.  If you are pushing out 300+ watts and going 27+ mph (generic numbers), then any flaw in your position is going to be exagerated and the accompanying decrease in performance will be more noticeable.

But aero helps everyone, from the 10mph cyclist to the 30 mph one.

There are two things that slow you down when you ride ....... resistance from air, resistance from the friction of the ground.  You find ways to overcome each of those, you go faster with the same amount of power.

It's pretty straght forward actually .......

Why would you put out any less energy on the bike just because you're more aerodynamic?  You just go faster for the same effort level.

Or go the same speed with less energy.  Though who wouldn't want to go faster.

Right, but who goes out there and says, "I'm going to bike this in 48 minutes" and adjusts their effort level for that?  We go out and put out a certain level of effort that we feel is appropriate, and the speed/time takes care of itself.

I will do anything within the rules to get faster.  If I have my aero helmet on and race wheels only to gain 3 seconds, so much the better.  In short distance races 3 seconds can mean the difference between podium and not.

Plain and simple.  If if makes you go even 1 second faster why not use it.

To Dale's point, if it makes you go faster why not use it for me its simple, money. Not to put your point down because with unlimited funds I'd have a P4 on order with a sweet set of Zipps. I read the original post as a "What is the best band for the buck" question.  Lets face it everyone here can benefit from more training- that point is baked. What I have been trying to figure out and I'm sure others are as well is...With my current fitness level and all things being equal what gear/bike modifications can I wear/use to make myself look skinner to the wind/decrease rolling resistance? Less drag =faster times with the same effort or less drag=same time with less effort on the bike. For me and I'm sure a bunch of others on BT there is a tradeoff between performance and your bottom line. I'd be interested to see if someone has or could put together a performance matrix based on "seconds cut per dollar spent" for example ( i just made up these numbers)- if I pick up an aero helmet ($150) and save 15 seconds over an olympic ride I basically purchased each second at a cost of $10 each. Now If I was to add a set of Zipp 909's for $2,000 and save X time then my cost per second is 2000/x. This can be expanded to every piece of gear you could think of.

I think the only hook to this is that every piece of gear will exhibit different characteristics on every person/course and even on a given day. So from what I have been able to gather in my short time here is that you can purchase speed/energy savings to an extent, and for most of us it will come with an associated dolar value, but its really up to the individual to decide on how much they are willing to spend on improvements that may have a performance improvement value. In my eyes, I know my engine needs a ton of work and for the forseable future I will be working on that to get faster before I get too hooked on saving seconds, I know with work in the saddle and on the roads I can still save minutes.  Just my $.02 - Pls someone let me know if I'm off base  

If Sheldon's chart doesn't appear, try this link:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/aerodynamics.htm  and scroll to the table

As to the actual aero savings 'fast rider vs. slow rider", Cervelo does a good job explaining in a slide presentation titled AERO SAVINGS here:

http://www.cervelo.com/content.aspx?t=Company&i=WhitePapers

 Work is a little slow today so to answer my own post....

Using some Info found in this thread I put together a performance matrix based on "seconds cut per dollar spent" for example - if I pick up an aero helmet ($150) and save 40 seconds over a 40KM TT at 20MPH ride I basically purchased each second at a cost of $3.75 each. Now If I was to add a set of Zipp 909's for $2,000 and save 122S then my cost per second is 2000/122= $16.40 per second. This can be expanded to every piece of gear you could think of.- Below I use some of the information based on the above link to some great information about aerodynamics/weight. I left some blank as we each have our own specific frames and each one performs differently but I though this was a good start. 

Approximate time savings at 20 mph over a distance of 40Km are:                               

                                          Seconds           Avg price         Price per second gained

Aero frameset                             90          $2,000                 $22.22

Aero shifting                             100               $80            $0.80

Deep V front Wheel                    64              $900                 $14.06

Rear Disk wheel                          58           $1,100                 $18.97

Aero helmet vs. conventional      40             $150                    $3.75

Aero drinking                               30               $35                    $1.17

Aero Fork                                    26              $400                  $15.38

19mm tires                                  16              $90                     $5.63

Totals                                       424          $4,755                    $11.21

 Above information is from the Nytro link- could one assume that the faster you go the more time you will save since drag is a function of the square of speed? 

JeepFleeb - 2008-10-01 9:31 AM

DerekL - 2008-10-01 6:57 AM
Right, but who goes out there and says, "I'm going to bike this in 48 minutes" and adjusts their effort level for that?  We go out and put out a certain level of effort that we feel is appropriate, and the speed/time takes care of itself.

I do.  I don't say I want XX:XX time, but I know the pack I want to be in and will adjust my effort as needed.  If I want to be in the first pack off the bike and I'm in the 2nd pack coming out of the water, that aero equipment helps me go faster at that hard effort.  Once I catch the 1st pack and all I have to do is sit 3 bike lengths behind them until T2, that aero equipment allows me to use less watts and still stay with them.

Yes, but you're a freak.

Don't know why I can't see my reply above.  So here it is again: 

No.  Slower riders save more time (simply because they are riding for longer).  Percentage gains rise with speed.

Good posts Sty.

We should sticky some of these posts, this discussion comes up all the time and this one has some really good info in it.

I guess I look at my bike like an ongoing project.  My wife and children won't let me afford to buy the bike and parts I want/need in one purchase so I pickup what I can when I can.   I have saved a ton of money buying off e-bay/ST/BT/Craigslist.