General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Triatheletes don't run enough Rss Feed  
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2008-10-22 6:29 PM

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2008-10-22 6:34 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Cycling Guru
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

And they can't spell either ....

I'd like to know where he is getting his opinion from other than personal experience.  Doesn't really sound like it is based on anything.

Adding more 3 - 4 mile runs??  Sure, of course that is always a good idea as long as the runs have a purpose.

As Daniels says, make sure every run has a purpose, and that you know what that purpose is before you go out and do it.

2008-10-22 6:39 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Champion
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500020002000500100
Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
x2 on what Rick said, Fred. I'm sure running more can make you a better runner, but it won't make you a better triathlete. And I don't buy the injury prevention theory he put's forth.

Dude, you HAVE to post this over on SlowTwitch...

Edited by bryancd 2008-10-22 6:41 PM
2008-10-22 6:40 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Master
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portland, or
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
I know quite a few people who were runners that turned to triathlons because they were dealing with injuries from daily running.

I think it's very individual. My personal experience has been that I find myself injured with greater run frequency and/or volume. I'm much better off running 3-4x per week and walking on the other days.

Of course I have a spine full of titanium, surgically rebuilt knees, and a surgically repaired achilles. So maybe I'm not the best one to comment.


scott
2008-10-22 6:49 PM
in reply to: #1760320

Master
1728
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portland, or
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
bryancd - 2008-10-22 3:39 PM

x2 on what Rick said, Fred. I'm sure running more can make you a better runner, but it won't make you a better triathlete. And I don't buy the injury prevention theory he put's forth.

Dude, you HAVE to post this over on SlowTwitch...


Considering the number of people who do the 100 runs in 100 days "contest" every year, I would think the idea would get a lot of support on ST. Of course it would generate a heated debate, since everything posted there does.

FWIW I know some very fast AG triathletes who follow the Hadd approach which calls for massive run volume and frequency.

scott
2008-10-22 6:56 PM
in reply to: #1760331

Cycling Guru
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

Last winter when I trained for my sub-3 attempt I was putting in 8 - 10 hour weeks of just running with sometimes 8 runs a week.  I did not end up injured at all with the high volume and frequency.

But .... I think that is what led to nagging problems for the rest of the year.  I'm only now getting back to the point where something isn't annoying me after a run (stuff never bothers me during, which is an indicator that it is okay to run).

Now I'm tossing around the idea of trying to go for that sub-3 again (yeah yeah yeah ..... said I'd never "race" another marathon ... sue me) but that stuff sticks in the back of my mind.  I don't know if I want to put myself through the 60 - 80 mile weeks again in the dead of winter.



Edited by Daremo 2008-10-22 6:57 PM


2008-10-22 7:13 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Master
2355
20001001001002525
Houston, TX
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
I don't think adding 2 more runs a week is a bad thing.. but to prevent injuries? Can't say I've heard that before. Nor have I experienced anything that supports that, or seen anything that supports that.

Runners will say we don't run enough
Cyclists will say we don't ride enough
Swimmers will say we don't swim enough



We're screwed.
2008-10-22 7:14 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Champion
9600
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
I feel that my Boston training of 40-50 miles per week uber early in the season helped my tri run this season, but it's taken months to get my bike back. I think doing a run/bike/swim focus is great in the off season but not practical during the triathlon season.

And Jesus, Rick, would you just run that damn sub 3 already?!
2008-10-22 7:15 PM
in reply to: #1760375

Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
smilford - 2008-10-22 7:13 PM

I don't think adding 2 more runs a week is a bad thing.. but to prevent injuries? Can't say I've heard that before. Nor have I experienced anything that supports that, or seen anything that supports that.

Runners will say we don't run enough
Cyclists will say we don't ride enough
Swimmers will say we don't swim enough



We're screwed.


Let's see them show up at a triathlon and beat us.
2008-10-22 7:17 PM
in reply to: #1760375

Subject: ...
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2008-10-22 7:25 PM
in reply to: #1760380

Master
2355
20001001001002525
Houston, TX
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
JeepFleeb - 2008-10-22 7:17 PM

Smilford doesn't triathlon enough.



I'm just screwed no matter what! :P


2008-10-22 7:32 PM
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2008-10-22 7:33 PM
in reply to: #1760384

Subject: ...
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Edited by PennState 2008-10-22 7:35 PM
2008-10-22 7:40 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Veteran
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Boulder
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

There is still a lot of disagreement about how much is enough running. I know competitive runners who run 11 times a week, and I know competitive runners (16:00 5Ks as a 15-year-old) on three runs a week.

The key is obviously to do what works for you. Again, with the injury thing, it's based on the person. I was injured twice on five runs a week, and injured twice (stress fractures and muscle tears) on three to four runs a week.

2008-10-22 7:44 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Champion
6503
50001000500
NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

I'm currently following a training plan for a Spring Marathon.  It "only" has 4 runs per week, with a "cross" on a 5th day.  I am certain that at my current weight of 220 lbs, my knees/ankles/back/etc. would fall apart with any additional runs.

I don't beleive that I could get faster without at least two recovery days per week.   Instead of getting in 1 long, one medium and two short runs EVERY WEEK, I'd probably do one week of 6 runs, followed by two weeks of recovery.  (I think that I'd be better off doing doubles 3 days a week instead of running 6 days a week.  This was what we did in High School X-C). 

Just this novice's opinion, as well as that of several marathon training plans that I have read.

Oh, and there is the whole matter of keeping a job, family and friends!



Edited by pga_mike 2008-10-22 7:47 PM
2008-10-22 7:45 PM
in reply to: #1760396

Master
2355
20001001001002525
Houston, TX
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
PennState - 2008-10-22 7:33 PM

smilford - 2008-10-22 8:25 PM
JeepFleeb - 2008-10-22 7:17 PM

Smilford doesn't triathlon enough.

I'm just screwed no matter what! :P

Hey dude, is that a Holstein Cow racing outfit in your avatar???



Don't you know how fast cows are?!


Just polka dots, 'The Dots'. They wanted something that stood out, and they did that well.
I've grown to like it quite a bit.


In the since of doing long runs with 3 days a week.. if you're doing 50%.. yea you need to run more/often.

Edited by smilford 2008-10-22 7:46 PM


2008-10-22 8:18 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
I agree that triathletes don't run enough (or swim enough ) I don't know about his injury theory, but I can see where he is coming from (sort of). I've always contested that most running injuries (beyond specific mechanical issues) are caused due to poor training not cause of running. And well, we all know that best way to get better at running is to just run lots. The more we run the better our body adapt and the more we can run (long) or faster and usually we grow less prone to injuries.

That been said, I don’t know there is a magic number nor one size fits all but in my case and for my athletes I do make them run much more than what they were used to. They tend to run probably minimum 4x week but most are in the 5+ camp. Most runs are short and easy (20-30 minutes easy pace) and sometimes hard or long. But in the end we’ll fit what the athlete and his/her goals and schedule can handle.

2008-10-22 8:53 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Master
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Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

I also don't know what the "golden" answer is, but there are valid arguments for both sides.

For the truly injury prone, tris are great since you can run "less" and try and partially compensate by biking/swimming. Of course, you will not be as fast on the run versus a 100% run trained individual, but if you really are injury prone (in my opinion, way too many people erroneously put themselves in this category after not doing structured buildup) this will probably yield best results.

However, I do think that running more volume with less intensity overall is generally better for most nonelite runners trying to improve performance, and that includes staying free of injury. In my 15 years of running, I have seen countless runners, particularly marathoners, try and cut back to 3-day per week programs or x-training programs, and then find how hard it is to run long runs of 15-22 miles for training. This is expected, if you're only running 30 miles per week - a 20 miler would be 2/3 of your weekly mileage, which is a certain prescription for overuse injury. Another common theme I have seen are people training for 5ks & 10ks, who dive into fast interval training with a weak mileage base (<20mpw) and then suffer shin splints, knee pains, etc.

Contrast this with a slow, methodical buildup to 60-70mpw; at this point, long runs are routine and safe, and your joints & bones & muscles are well adapted to take on the impact of intervals. 

In my opinion, in general, for peak running performance, a methodical buildup to more miles, and yes, more runs per week, is the safest and most effective way to consistently improve the run. The trouble becomes finding the time to fit in the bike & swim training as well - can't neglect those and expect to become a good triathlete.

 

 

2008-10-22 9:03 PM
in reply to: #1760305

Champion
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Fountain Hills, AZ
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
I got news for all you runner cats, get off the bike too far back and your screwed.
2008-10-23 6:00 AM
in reply to: #1760599

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2008-10-23 6:34 AM
in reply to: #1760305

Pro
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the Alabama part of Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

Runners don't bike or swim enough. 

Seriously, if your sport is triathlon, you need to do all three in a balanced fashion.  Unless your plan is to make every day a brick, a triathlete will always do less of a single sport than a single sport person.  Triathlon magazine had an article years ago where they sponsered a friendly bike race between a group of triathletes and a group of cyclists.  The cyclists won, but admitted that there was no way they could go for a run right away. 

I don't think that running more makes you less prone to injury.  If you drive more, at a certain point, you are more likely to have an accident than less likely, since you have more miles and time to screw up. 



2008-10-23 7:16 AM
in reply to: #1760305

Runner
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

I know most of you people don't run enough.

Hence the reason my advice is always "Run more".

2008-10-23 7:52 AM
in reply to: #1760305

Champion
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NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

I must be honest and disclose something that I just noticed about the training plan that I am following.

Actually, if you are trying to go for a 2:30 Marathon, my program puts you at 6 days a week.

In my case, where it is my first (and last) Marathon, and finishing is the primary goal, with a 4:30 as a time goal, I am hoping that 4 runs/Week will be sufficient.  Equally important is getting under 200 lbs.  I can only imagine how much easier (&faster) running will be with 10% less weight.

2008-10-23 7:59 AM
in reply to: #1760599

Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough

bryancd - 2008-10-22 9:03 PM I got news for all you runner cats, get off the bike too far back and your screwed.
it is not about running more and ignoring the other two sports. It is about adding more runs to your training.

2008-10-23 8:01 AM
in reply to: #1760935

Runner
Subject: RE: Triatheletes don't run enough
pga_mike - 2008-10-23 8:52 AM

I must be honest and disclose something that I just noticed about the training plan that I am following.

Actually, if you are trying to go for a 2:30 Marathon, my program puts you at 6 days a week.

In my case, where it is my first (and last) Marathon, and finishing is the primary goal, with a 4:30 as a time goal, I am hoping that 4 runs/Week will be sufficient.  Equally important is getting under 200 lbs.  I can only imagine how much easier (&faster) running will be with 10% less weight.

2:30 marathon?  What plan is this?

My last marathon I was doing 6-7 days a week, and running 10-12 times per week, and still didn't go sub 3.

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