Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme
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General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme | Rss Feed |
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2018-10-11 7:38 AM |
22 | Subject: Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme Hi again Just finished the above mentioned programme and am contemplating immediately redoing it - a.) because I enjoyed it so much and b.) because my first cycle was plagued with annoying setbacks, flu, food poisoning, wisdom tooth extraction to name a few. The first phase focuses on improving VO2 max before moving onto working on 20 mean max power and finally a focus on improving critical power - just wondering if repeating the VO2 max stage is necessary or can simply jump in at the start of the 20 mean max power phase? Thanks for any insight |
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2018-10-11 7:11 PM in reply to: Alpal |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL | Subject: RE: Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme Way back when I always repeated in full, had a great jump in CP doing it back-to-back leading into Tri Sprint season at the time. I enjoyed the VO2 phase the most. I dreaded the 6x4' workouts! I guess it depends on your long term focus and your strengths. I hope Mark doesn't mind me posting the following. It's some info when he had a mentor power group with coach Shane a several years back, I liked the different approach. Take a look at the group's archives, some great info and workouts arethere. I still have all my notes and the workouts archived for importing into TrainerRoad, MaximumTrainer, etc.: ------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Phil Skiba describes threshold and VO2max using a house analogy where threshold is your ceiling and VO2max is your roof. If you want to increase your power at threshold, then you need to have sufficient attic space in order to raise your roof and if your threshold and VO2max are close together, you will first need to raise the roof (increase power at VO2max) before you can push up the ceiling. Short test to Long test ratio result is 1.09-1.16 (group 2, aka the All Rounder’s, work a bit of everything) Short test to Long test ratio result is >1.15 (group 3, aka the Sprinter’s, work the long term power) |
2018-10-12 4:12 AM in reply to: Donto |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme Originally posted by Donto I hope Mark doesn't mind me posting the following. It's some info when he had a mentor power group with coach Shane a several years back, Of course not. I think there is some great info in there. I am considering doing another group this winter. If people are interested let me know. The approached we used was to identify your strength and weakness and target them. Another coach I worked with liked the concept of working your power duration curve from left to right. In other words, working your 30s power, then your 1min, then you 5min.....all the way to your long aerobic and tempo rides. The shorter stuff works well for people stuck on trainers Keep in mind that if you work something for too short, you won't get the adaptations. Too long, and you are getting less adaptation. You can argue if the "too long" is 4 weeks or 12 weeks..... Jorge's plan was cramming the whole cycling into 15 weeks putting more of an emphasis on sweet spot stuff in the 2nd half. My concern about doing Jorge's plan and then just jumping back in the 2nd half of the plan will be too much time on the same thing. Maybe that's what some people need but I find it makes for a long winter. |
2018-10-12 9:04 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 8248 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme I have done the plan from Mark's power group (I think in the final year before I got a coach) and can testify it was really useful for me. It worked better for me than Jorge's program. Not sure about others, but something about the power targets didn't fit with the latter. I think I am one of those people who is good at holding a high % of max for a long time, but my absolute max power is not that high. I could almost never hit the high targets for short intervals (5 minutes or less) in Jorge's workouts, even early on in the plan, but found the longer sets later on didn't really challenge me. The mentor group program had more differentiation for people like me (or for those who are better at speed than endurance) and was definitely a challenge, but I was able to actually hit the power targets and rest intervals for the workouts. That was what finally got me down to 3 hours flat for HIM. (I started at 3:27; down to 2:39 now.) Edited by Hot Runner 2018-10-12 9:04 AM |
2018-10-13 9:47 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme Originally posted by Hot Runner I have done the plan from Mark's power group (I think in the final year before I got a coach) and can testify it was really useful for me. It worked better for me than Jorge's program. Not sure about others, but something about the power targets didn't fit with the latter. I think I am one of those people who is good at holding a high % of max for a long time, but my absolute max power is not that high. I could almost never hit the high targets for short intervals (5 minutes or less) in Jorge's workouts, even early on in the plan, but found the longer sets later on didn't really challenge me. The mentor group program had more differentiation for people like me (or for those who are better at speed than endurance) and was definitely a challenge, but I was able to actually hit the power targets and rest intervals for the workouts. That was what finally got me down to 3 hours flat for HIM. (I started at 3:27; down to 2:39 now.) IIRC the "threshold" stuff was on the light side of threshold. Probably ok for people who's threshold was actually lower than what the tests showed. But for a person with his threshold accurately set probably on the easy side. I suspect this was your case Now you have to work on the aero :-) |
2018-10-14 9:01 PM in reply to: marcag |
1520 Cypress, Texas | Subject: RE: Where to start when immediately repeating Jorge's winter cycling programme Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Hot Runner I have done the plan from Mark's power group (I think in the final year before I got a coach) and can testify it was really useful for me. It worked better for me than Jorge's program. Not sure about others, but something about the power targets didn't fit with the latter. I think I am one of those people who is good at holding a high % of max for a long time, but my absolute max power is not that high. I could almost never hit the high targets for short intervals (5 minutes or less) in Jorge's workouts, even early on in the plan, but found the longer sets later on didn't really challenge me. The mentor group program had more differentiation for people like me (or for those who are better at speed than endurance) and was definitely a challenge, but I was able to actually hit the power targets and rest intervals for the workouts. That was what finally got me down to 3 hours flat for HIM. (I started at 3:27; down to 2:39 now.) IIRC the "threshold" stuff was on the light side of threshold. Probably ok for people who's threshold was actually lower than what the tests showed. But for a person with his threshold accurately set probably on the easy side. I suspect this was your case Now you have to work on the aero :-)
I have seen similar improvements on the bike. My last raced I had a 2:32 bike split but it took me almost three years before I was finally able to go under 3 hours. Jorge's Winter Bike Plan was the first bike plan that I did. I did it out doors after my 2nd race season from June-September when I had day light on my pre-work rides (I just raced on May that spring). I had a coach this year and did a large portion on my bike training with the TrainerRoads. I did my last race about a month ago and am working on goals and training plans for next year. I also struggle with the short high intensity intervals but feel that the long intervals are too easy. I will have to look at Mark's archived mentor group. |
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