I'm probably adding gasoline to this fire...

I've always thought the Nordic peninsula was a most fascinating shape.

But in perhaps more relevant thought ...

The U.S. presents a much more complex history, diverse population, and range of social issues than do the Nordic states. I don't know that a similar socialist-capitalist model could feasibly be designed or implemented here.

It makes sense to me, and I think we can lobby and take initial (however messy) steps in that direction, but ... I just don't know that we'll ever get there.

This is what I know off the top of my head ...

1. Very low.

2. Not all foreign aid is created equal. If you cut out foreign aid as it's related to military/crime/political stability overseas expenditures, the Nordic countries proportionately give far more.

3. The definitions of stability and the measures of how successful those roles are would be extremely difficult to reach a consensus on. The Nordic countries do contribute significantly to regional economic stability in Europe.

4. Terrorists, or terrorist organizations? Or internal/external extremists? Again, a lot of definitional margin here.

5. As for tech/med innovations--TONS.

6. The Nordes are busy spending their big budgets on social welfare and stability instead of sci fi movies.

You say the below as if they are good things???

One could argue that if you don't do this

"What role do Nordic countries play in maintaining stability in the world?"  

you don't have to deal with these

"How much do Nordic countries contribute in foreign aid as a percentage of GDP compared to the US?" & "How many Nordic countries are primary targets of terrorist organizations?"

IKEA?  (tongue in cheek)

Girl with the dragon tattoo.

Is it just me or is the formatting all messed up in this thread?

As for my contribution.  California DOES offer free higher education.  Didn't work.  Abuse and got the state bankrupt.  Too many people were just becoming full time students and staying in school for years and years, with the state paying for it.  They were not just getting an education and applying it.

Free schooling would just mean more bums taking advantage of it via worthless educational programs that offer no hope for a meaningful career all while collecting free grant money to pee away on something other than educational expenses.  

I don't believe the cost of schooling is the issue here.  

If you want to give half or more of your money to the government to provide those things then you can, move there and become a citizen, Everyone thinks its great untill its their money being taken.

Current European tax rates:

United Kingdom
Income Tax: 50%
VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%

France
Income Tax: 40%
VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%

Greece
Income Tax: 40%
VAT : 25% TOTAL: 65%

Spain
Income Tax: 45%
VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%

Portugal
Income Tax: 42%
VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%

Sweden
Income Tax: 55%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 80%

Norway
Income Tax: 54.3%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 79.3%

Netherlands
Income Tax: 52%
VAT: 19% TOTAL: 71%

Denmark
Income Tax: 58%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 83%

Finland
Income Tax: 53%
VAT: 22% TOTAL: 75%

Well, I currently pay about 50% of my gross income in taxes (not counting the sales taxes at another 6%); and we are paying out of pocket for our kids' educations in college and grad school, which eats up another 15-20% of the gross. So for the gearboy family, it would end up looking the same. It isn't great, but it isn't unmanageable either.

And the formatting on the thread looks off to me too. I though it was just my computer here.

I don't think our issue is higher education in this country.  If anything, I believe that we push "higher education" too much, as we interpret higher education as college and having a college degree.  Too much emphasis has led many folks to go into debt, to obtain said college degree (or not in some cases).

We could do a better job of focusing on areas that we need to focus on (based on future workforce needs).   We generally try to educate children, based on the fact that everyone is created equal.  And, we are not.

I'm no good at biology  It's neat to learn about, but I don't have the aptitude that others have and the joy to study it, as others might.  Now, give me a course in mathematics, and I'm all over it.  It comes easily to me and I have an aptitude to study it.  I naturally gravitated to business and accounting.

I'm not proposing that we do away with children learning science, because they don't like it.  But, I think we could do a better job of focusing on the strengths of children in education.  They may actually learn more, and enjoy it more.  In turn, they might become better at what they are more apt to accomplish.

I can't offer a solution as to what form that takes, or what we should do.  But, our education system could be much better.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/commentary/should-everyone-go-college

and, an interesting discussion from the WSJ from different views:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203960804577239253121093694.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

You know the formatting is off on my PC but it's fine on my Mac.

I think it's a plot to kill off the thread by making it unreadable.

Either that Or maybe it is a plot to force you to listen to me quietly and keep you from rebutting any arguments. 

I read and article a couple of years ago ( I want to say it was in The Economist and revolved around an OECD study under PISA) and unfortunately I can not find it in the short time I have looked for it.  But in any event it took into account several years of rankings and education as a cultural phenomenon and basically concluded that, in large part, Scandinavian countries' success with education had NOT ONLY to do with it's structure, and this went in to school year and school day and teaching methods, etc......, but also with the climate, economy and culture of those countries, where the climate and economy was conducive to staying inside and studying/reading and that parents flat out focused and valued education above anything else.  Where the best thing you could do was not sports, but the spelling bee.  It talked about Belgium and France and Japan etc......  And it noticed that all of hte top countries valued education over anything else.  the article was actually looking at per capita spending I believe, but I'm not sure that matters much.

It's different over there.  It's different outside the US.  Here we care about football and Ice Cream and nike shoes and cake and gameboys and Joo-joo beans and ipods and starburst.  Elsewhere, they seem to like to learn.

I love how other countries and american liberals bring up this point: "The US spends more on defense than the XX other competitors combined." 

The United States also pays the biggest burden for all the fights that the world wants.  Since the formation of the UN (which is funded more by the US than any other country), we have fought or funded every UN Peacekeeping mission resulting in thousands of fatalities (if you add all the UN-sanctioned conflicts, there have been 96,157 US deaths in 12 conflicts).

No nation in history spilled as much blood for other nations without claiming territory for themselves.  Defense Spending by the US is a necessary expenditure.

Nothing to argue on the prisoner thing.  It's peculiar to me how once you're charged, you have the most fair proceeding of any country out there.  But still we have more people incarcerated.  Wikipedia says it's due to the length of sentencing in the US which is very high.  So if you're found guilty by a judge or jury of your peers, you spend longer in prison than if you were in say Turkey.

If you pay 50% of your gross in taxes, you are not doing any tax planning.  Also, if you pay 15-20% for your kids school, a chunk of that should be deductible.  Do you mean to tell me you are actually at 70% of gross being taxed?  And you're in Pennsylvania? Something's amiss here. Maybe your wife should work for free or donate her income to charity like my Boss' wife. 

The tax system has loopholes right now for a reason.  It's to encourage spending in the areas that congress wanted to encourage spending (i.e. education, donations to charity).  If you're looking for a charity to donate to, I'm sure BT can help. 

Formatting's off for me too.  Some code thing between Mac and PC I guess.

When I was in Helsinki a single 12oz beer (their version of Bud or some other cheap swill) at a supermarket or conv store (same price) was $12US.  That right there tell me something is screwed up.

Scoob makes some very valid points however.  The reason a lot of other countries do not have to have a large military is because the US does.  If the US were to bring every man, plane and tank back to the US you'd see other countries churning out rifles instantly.

I'm not saying our defense spending should be as high as it is.  But other countries don't spend as much on defense because of it.  besides, who is going to invade Finland anyway?