Cliven Bundy - States Rights Patriot or Domestic Terrorist?

Good article.  I was aware that this was going on, but was missing many details of it.

I don't know if I would call him a domestic terrorist, but I don't agree with what he is doing.  His family and himself seem to be using violence and threats of violence to get their ways.  Which is almost always in the wrong in my book.  Western states have interesting laws regarding public lands, and the amount of land that is public is staggering.  The way I see it though is that this land belongs to everyone, not just those that want to graze it.  To me the habitat is worth more then the cows - I don't eat beef, and I don't care to eat beef. 

As far as his claims that he has the right to be there because his forefathers were there is a terrible argument.  I'm pretty sure your forefathers kicked someone else off that land and claimed it as theirs.

Should be an interesting story to watch.

Ranchers have been arguing and fighting with everyone over grazing rights forever.......meh. 

Just need a little compromise here to make this work.  The cattle should be allowed to graze freely as long as they are equipped with solar panels and purchase coverage under the ACA.  The land should also become a preserve for the desert tortoise and wild horses, along with being designated a permanent national nuclear waste repository.  There, I think I covered all the bases with that proposal.

I'm trying to figure out what the guy with the rifle on the overpass is thinking.   Hell, even the guy with the camera can kill him.  LMAO

I sure home he made the "MILITA SIGHN IN." on time.

Wouldn't putting your name on that list be something you'd want to avoid?

It's hard to say who's watching those boneeads..... but I know this.. if the chit hits the fan I'm not fighting with the folks who write "MILITA SIGHN IN".  

This whole Bundy thing is kind of interesting.

There's no question Bundy doesn't have a legal leg to stand on because they have changed the grazing laws in order to clamp down on what he's doing.  The law is what it is and he is in violation.

There is certainly some fascinating discussions going on about "why" they changed the laws with everything from turtle conservation to solar power plants going in, but it's really hard to differentiate the "conspiracy theories" from the truth.  Overall, I find it fascinating how the local governments are supporting Bundy and the Feds are generally backing down (at least for now).

If anything, it's an interesting example of the 2nd Amendment giving the people "right or wrong" the ability to stand up to the government.  Now granted, if the Feds wanted to level the place, they would absolutely win but politically they would lose so they don't.

The thing is, if something did go down, it's certain the government would win any armed conflict, but all that would do is inflame the militias and anti-government conspiracy theorists.

By the way, is what the militias are doing legal? I would think there's multiple laws about pointing weapons at Federal officials.

Yeah, I don't know what the heck is going on with that.  I know if we were at a "disturbance" and someone pointed a gun at us it would likely end poorly for the gun pointer.  I don't have any idea how that goofball can do what he's doing unless nobody knew he was.  Dying over a bunch cows seems stupid to me. LOL

Well they ARE free-range cows. I suppose this is the redneck version of Occupy Wall Street.

I think when the govt. starts drone strikes on the cow herd the story will become alot more interesting. 

I saw one article that I'm certain was fantasy about the government digging mass cow graves and executing them.

If they start building cow concentration camps, then I think the UN may have to get involved.  ;-)

With the price of beef where it is I hope they throw all cows in interment camps while this war rages.

There are pictures up today of the big holes they dug and dumped the dead cows in. Wonder when PETA will get involved.

Cow-centration camps? Let's start a conspiracy theory! I bet infowars will cover this.

If they did, it wouldn't surprise me at all.  Our government doesn't seem to be able to use logic with things like these.

No matter who is in the right, simply killing and burying cattle is stupid.  Sell them to a stock yard, or even donate them to somebody would obviously be better choices.  However, I'm sure there would be so much red tape in order to get that done that the only viable solution is to waste them.  :-/

Me neither....but it's not going backward from here.

I honestly have mixed feelings on this believe it or not.  There are situations where the police DO need to have significant firepower and resources such as the LA bank robbery shootout with the bad guys sporting body armor and full auto weapons.  If there's a terrorist mall shooting, I want LB and his crew to have the best of the best so they can go in and stop the bad guys as quickly as possible.

One of my closest friends from the Navy is a SWAT guy out in CA and there's no question it's a high risk profession because God only knows what the bad guy has on the other side of the door.  So, in that context, I appreciate that they have overwhelming force to mitigate the dangers and keep the police safer.

However, you have situations where relatively minor arrest warrants are served with the same level of overwhelming force and any hand in the pocket or wrong move by the "bad guy" can result in accidental death.  This is where i have a big problem with the tactics and equipment being used.

There has to be a balance somewhere and I don't really know where that balance is.  I don't want all police going back to six shooters on the hip, and I also don't want the driving around in tanks.

More importantly I want the police to stop buying up all the dad gum ammo so I can get some.  ;-)

Without question, the LA shootout started us down the road to military style weapons being introduced to everyday patrol cars. 

The reason you see minor warrants served with the same force as more serious warrants is a training issue.  You serve them all the same and it becomes standard practice......"practice" being the emphasis.

I am happy to have superior firepower.  Wihtout being overly dramatic....it's nice to know you can get into a gunfight and have a decent chance to go home in one piece thanks to the increased training and equipment.  The flip side is that the combined police force inthis country would probably make it one of the largest standing armies on the planet...complete with air support, armored vehicles, drones, surveillance capabilities, etc, etc.  A good thing?  It is right up to the point where the power gets abused.....that's always a concern.

It depends if you have them available.  K-9 units today are generally used for sniffing, not so much for crowd control....some are not even cross trained today since, as you alluded to, there aren't many opportunities to use them like there was back in the 60's with mass demonstrations.

I will say this.......there is very little, if anything, as effective as a well trained k-9 corps for crowd control......the exception being a well trained mounted unit.

I don't know where the k-9 units you are talking about come from.....but I think it's a better alternative than tear gas and rubber bullets.

[sorry, dp