General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 54 degrees and no wetsuit Rss Feed  
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2008-09-05 4:04 PM

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Champion
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Subject: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
I ahve a 5k swim tomorrow and I signed up for the non wetsuit division. its going to be 54 degrees and its past the time I can change the division.

Now I want to do a 10k swim race and good chance that race will be cold. So do I HTFU and say hey I can do 54 degree swim withoiut a wetsuit so I should be able to do a 64 degree swim race.

Do I bring my wetsuit and hope I can transfer?

Do I wimp out and not go because I do not want to die?

Is there anything I can do for a non wetsuit race to keep myself warm?


2008-09-05 4:16 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Master
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Lake Oswego, OR
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
Compared to 54, 64 is down right balmy. I don't think 64 degrees is cold to race in. The question is: can you race (swim hard) for the entire 10K. If so you'll do fine at 64. Also many people find 54 degree water tolerable, although past a mile would be tough for me. All real Alcatraz swims are sans wetsuit and the water is 54. And then there are the English Channel swimmers. Either way get some practice in cold water. Many people also recommend ice baths to help your body (and mind) learn to adapt to cold water. Check with the organizers to see if you can wear a neopreme cap. They make a world of difference. . Also consider using use ear plugs. 
2008-09-05 4:18 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
well the race is tomorrow and I have not practiced in ows that much let alone without my wetsuit. Plus I figure it would take me atleast 2 hours even with the wetsuit.
2008-09-05 4:18 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Champion
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Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
chirunner134 - 2008-09-05 4:04 PM

I ahve a 5k swim tomorrow and I signed up for the non wetsuit division. its going to be 54 degrees and its past the time I can change the division.



Dare I ask, did you TRAIN in open water that is 54 degrees sans wetsuit?

If you signed up for that division, I would guess that you trained for it... right?
2008-09-05 4:22 PM
in reply to: #1653784

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Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
KSH - 2008-09-05 4:18 PM

chirunner134 - 2008-09-05 4:04 PM

I ahve a 5k swim tomorrow and I signed up for the non wetsuit division. its going to be 54 degrees and its past the time I can change the division.



Dare I ask, did you TRAIN in open water that is 54 degrees sans wetsuit?

If you signed up for that division, I would guess that you trained for it... right?


I trained for 3.1 miles I did not train for cold and no wet suit. Maybe I can see if I can still swtich. Its going to be very cold.

Sad thing is ulimately I paid $95 for the race.
2008-09-05 4:22 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Expert
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Ontario, Canada
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
I've heard some lifeguard rule of thumb that 50% of people will die after 50min in 50 degree water.  I've suffered hypothermia, it's not fun and can be very dangerous. 


2008-09-05 4:27 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Master
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The Redlands, FL
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

54oF and No wet-Suit????

No Way!!!....It's too freaky cold for me....LOL

2008-09-05 4:28 PM
in reply to: #1653799

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Champion
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Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
chirunner134 - 2008-09-05 4:22 PM

KSH - 2008-09-05 4:18 PM

chirunner134 - 2008-09-05 4:04 PM

I ahve a 5k swim tomorrow and I signed up for the non wetsuit division. its going to be 54 degrees and its past the time I can change the division.



Dare I ask, did you TRAIN in open water that is 54 degrees sans wetsuit?

If you signed up for that division, I would guess that you trained for it... right?


I trained for 3.1 miles I did not train for cold and no wet suit. Maybe I can see if I can still swtich. Its going to be very cold.

Sad thing is ulimately I paid $95 for the race.


I think you answered your own question man.
2008-09-05 4:30 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

I'm with Patricia, not to be alarmist.  It will be a shock getting in, then you will get used to it.  The problem is you will be in the water for 2+ hours.  That's way too long in my opinion to be in 54 degree water without a wetsuit.

You've done no cold water training.  doing the swim without a suit is a very bad idea, IMHO.  A little tip for the future is a neoprene cap.  Something like 60% of body heat (loosely recalling from dive training days) is lost through the head.

Alcatraz is at most 1.5 miles, and most people are out of the water well before 1:00.  I've done it twice, and neither time was close to 54.

64, on the other hand, is pretty warm

i'd bring the suit and try to switch.  Can't see why they wouldn't let you.

2008-09-05 4:38 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Champion
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the colony texas
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

Ok you have a 5k race but want to switch to the 10k race??

1. do you have health insurance?
2. what did you train for? you mentioned not training much in/for ows was there a reason that you didn't health wise that is going to effect you for this race? Or did you just not train.
3. not wanting to die isn't wimping out to me
4.

 

chirunner134 - 2008-09-05 4:04 PM I ahve a 5k swim tomorrow and I signed up for the non wetsuit division. its going to be 54 degrees and its past the time I can change the division. Now I want to do a 10k swim race and good chance that race will be cold. So do I HTFU and say hey I can do 54 degree swim withoiut a wetsuit so I should be able to do a 64 degree swim race. Do I bring my wetsuit and hope I can transfer? Do I wimp out and not go because I do not want to die? Is there anything I can do for a non wetsuit race to keep myself warm?

2008-09-05 4:49 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
No, he's planning a 10K next year, this is just a warmup, so to speak


2008-09-05 4:52 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Master
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Virginia Beach, VA
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
IMCdA water temp was in the high 50's and I thought it was cold with a fullsuit. They had a madatory wetsuit rule if the water temp beingwas 60 degrees on race day which it was.
2008-09-05 4:53 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Champion
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Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

Todd,

Are you doing Big Shoulder's tomorrow?

Where did you get the 54F temp?

How do you know it is that cold?

That surface temp map that has been circulating isn't entirely accurate. 

If it is Big Shoulders, isn't it at Ohio Street Beach?

I was in there about 2-3 weeks ago, and even with this rain, it shouldn't have gotten that cold.

2008-09-05 4:56 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Champion
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Carlsbad, California
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

Can you say Ice Cream Headache???

Check with the RD. I bet they will let you swim with a Wetsuit but you will not get an official Time. The USMS Reg is pretty clear about 5k Swims being no wetsuit affairs but many RD's will let you race with one and just not post your "Offical" time.

Certainly worth checking into it because I can tell you that if your not used to swimming in 54 degree water, Hypothermia is gonna really suck on race day

2008-09-05 5:05 PM
in reply to: #1653880

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Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
crowny2 - 2008-09-05 4:53 PM

Todd,

Are you doing Big Shoulder's tomorrow?

Where did you get the 54F temp?

How do you know it is that cold?

That surface temp map that has been circulating isn't entirely accurate. 

If it is Big Shoulders, isn't it at Ohio Street Beach?

I was in there about 2-3 weeks ago, and even with this rain, it shouldn't have gotten that cold.



http://www.coastwatch.msu.edu/michigan/m5.html

it looks like a new scan but earlier it has 54 all over it. MAybe its not as bad as I fear.

Either way if I can I might still where my wetsuit unless its in the 70s.

54 seems awefully low without a warning to all particates.
2008-09-05 5:41 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Pro
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the Alabama part of Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
This is a somewhat offbeat idea, but what about doing it "old school": smearing yourself with crisco or vaseline to help retain heat as a kind of "external blubber " layer?  Is that allowed?


2008-09-05 5:43 PM
in reply to: #1654019

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

gearboy - 2008-09-05 3:41 PM This is a somewhat offbeat idea, but what about doing it "old school": smearing yourself with crisco or vaseline to help retain heat as a kind of "external blubber " layer?  Is that allowed?

Given that I didn't want to encourage Todd to do the race without a wetsuit ...

A certain amount is allowed. I forgot how USMS states it, but it's not much of an option.

2008-09-05 8:08 PM
in reply to: #1653743

Member
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Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
That sounds dangerous. Why would a RD not let you change divisions for safety reasons?? Why would he/she want to run the risk of someone getting sick at the event? Seems odd...
2008-09-05 8:14 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Master
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Lake Oswego, OR
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

Here is the link

 http://www.usms.org/rules/part3.pdf

Here are the rules (couldn't figure out how to make the font bigger)

 303.6 SWIMWEAR

303.6.1 Swimwear shall be the same as defined in article 102.14.1 and 102.14.2.

Goggles, ear plugs and grease shall be allowed. The suit shall be made of

a porous material.

303.6.2 Swim cap(s), including those made of neoprene, may be permitted. Swim

caps shall be defined as head gear conforming to a traditional swim cap

design and shall not extend to protect the neck or shoulders.

303.6.3 Wetsuits may be allowed at the discretion of the meet director. Wetsuits

generally provide a competitive advantage. If awards are given to wetsuit

competitors they shall be awarded separately from those for non-wetsuit

competitors. Any published results or records must clearly indicate which

swimmers wore wetsuits.

303.6.4 Devices used to maintain body heat are illegal, except for those listed in

articles 303.6.1, 303.6.2 and 303.6.3.

303.3

 


2008-09-05 10:08 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Champion
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Butler
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

I wouldn't swim that cold with a wetsuit.  I tried cold water one time and made it about 100  yards.  But that is just me.  Some people deal with cold water better.

2008-09-06 12:45 AM
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Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

Man, 54 degrees?  That seriously does sound dangerous.  I'm kind of surprised they would even have a no-wetsuit division at that temp.  Have you ever BEEN in 54-degree water?  Whew . . .

 

Chris



2008-09-06 12:59 AM
in reply to: #1653743

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Master
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Sachse
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
If you have not trained in it without a wetsuit, I would be scratching the swim. Honestly.. there is HTFU and there is PFS. I have been on a few dives a couple of degrees south of that temp. I was only in the water for 70 or so minutes. I had 6mm on my core 3-5mm everywhere else... I froze my @$$ off.... and it was not fun.

I know I have seen people do it... but they also train for it. Jumping in like you are, I would look at more like cold water survival than an OWS. You will be losing heat faster as you swim... I am not sure how long you plan to be in the water, but most charts you look at on hypothermia prevention, you will find that the average adult's "Expected Time Before Exhaustion or Unconsciousness", in 40-50 degree water is 30-60min, and 1-2 hours in 50-60 degree water. Again, these are just guidelines and everyone is different. The time to "just want to go to sleep"....should not be in the water. (unless you are in 30ft of water wearing doubles...but that is another story.. )

Let me throw something else your direction... give you something to think about. You say that you haven't really done much OWS training.. especially in temps like this. As I mentioned above, I have several dives at temps lower than this and never experienced ANY issues. While doing an OWS this past year, in water around the temps that you are looking at, I was hit with a Outstanding case of vertigo. Yes.. Good times! I went from trying to control my breathing after putting my face in the water..... to tunnel vision, lights dimming, and chumming the water. This was in the middle of the lake. I have been through some scary stuff in my life, and hands down, this one had them all beat! Do you know how your body reacts on cold OWS? Do you use ear plugs? I am just saying that there may be other things to worry about, other than your body getting cold. You don't know what you don't know.

You are a grown man.. so you can do what you want... But if it were me, I would be ringing the bell and making another race after I have practiced for the given conditions. Think about it... there is swimming and then there is swimming with the proper training and equipment for the conditions. Do you think any of the runners that did Badwater this past year did all of their training runs in a 70 degree gym on a treadmill? Well even if they did and happened to pass out on the course, they wouldn't be face down in the water.

I think you know the answer... that's why you posted the question. Be safe.. and next time post questions like this, 12 weeks or days before your race......not 12 hours..

Later..
Kenny
2008-09-06 8:03 AM
in reply to: #1653743

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Master
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Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

As another point of reference, water temps at game time for this year's SOR were 55 (as I recall). Saw only ONE dude without a suit - he made it fine. The RD shortened the course and I'd surmise most swimmers were out of the water in 45 minutes or less, however.

IMO, 54F water+no suit+little recent OW training+3K swim = more risk than I would take. Switch divisions, if you can't switch, wear the suit anyway, or drop out.

2008-09-06 9:14 AM
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Pro
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Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit

All things considered, it sounds like a bad idea to me.  I've swam in 55 degrees with a wetsuit, and I got an ice cream headache and my hands and feet went numb within minutes.  And that was even with swimming regularly in 60-65 degree temps.

It's not a lot of fun when it's that cold.

2008-09-06 2:04 PM
in reply to: #1653743

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Champion
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: 54 degrees and no wetsuit
Good news. I got there and asked and they said it was 76 degrees. I guess the map was wrong. Though right as we were getting into the water they said thanks to Hurricane Gustoff they had the coldest race in there history at 70 degrees. I started hyperventilating some as I was walking to the start.

This race proved to me how much I love my wetsuit and how I will never do a race where I can not use it again ever. ok maybe I will but my ows needs some serious work.
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