Can't get heart above 141. What is up?

What's so special about 141?

Have you done a test on the bike, yet? Not sure if you have the info you need to explain how to properly test, but the all-out 30-min test (and a few other shorter ones you'll do as well) will give you a good indication of your ranges, both in terms of power and HR.

Write back if you need more info about testing.

Did you ride with a HRM prior to getting the power tap?

What you are saying is that you have a lower HR at the same speed correct?  If so sounds like your on the right path here, however 141 is just a number if you don't know what your LT is.  Have you done the LT test yet? 

It took me about 2-3 weeks to get comfortable spining at a higher rate.   Today ~ 4 years later I can spin between 95 and 105 for a long time and based on some time trial type training 102-105 seems to be my magic region for sustainable power (speed).  Give it time and see if you can adapt to a higher rate and see if it helps.

A question, you have been a masher on the bike, what about running, have you checked to see what your stride rate per minute typically is?  Reason I ask is because the bike-run has a relationship, I've posted this link on some other threads and found it very helpful when I started out.

Worry less about your HR and your cadence.  Push more watts.

I think my post was confusing.

What I am saying is that I seem to be limited by the ability to spin faster.  Or spin at the same speed but a lower gear. 

It sounds like I need to continue to do what I am doing for a month and then see if I start spinning faster or spin same speed but at a lower gear.   Which ultimately will increase the wattage I am outputting.

I have had knee pain in the past so I am a big believer in lossing the mashing.  But spinning faster seems to loose me about 1 mph average and 30 watts or maybe more.  Only had PowerTap 2 days so have not really tested.  So if in 3-6 months of training I can get back the 1mph and 30 watts and consistently spin at 85 - 90 I will be very happy.

It is very weird feeling to be stuck.  I can not work any harder because my legs just won't do it.  They refuse to go any faster.  So I also feel like I am not getting a proper workout.  But in some ways I am a lot more tired but not in a cardio way.  Hard to explain.

I run today with no bike so I get to feel the cardio burn. 

Focus on the watts, not the cadence.  It's good to try using a variety of cadences in training so you have them 'in your bag' on race day if needed.  But there's no replacement for the work you do, which is best measured with power.

If spinning at higher cadences isn't working your HR and you're also putting out lower power, then your workouts aren't going to be very effective.  FWIW, most people find spinning higher cadences (higher than whatever they're generally comfortable with) is more taxing on their cardio (higher HR) than their muscles.

I would have guessed that spinning higher would increase my HR.  I was surprised to find that my legs would not cooperate.  But if I just go back to a lower cadence and increase watts then it does not seem like I will accomplish my goal which is increasing my cadence. 

I got plenty of time and patients so I think I will just try spinning faster for the next couple of weeks and see what happens.  Can't hurt anything.  I will do my extremely hilly course once a week and that really will get me my workout.  On the hilly course even in my highest gear I will get a major workout.  I am going to be curious to see what my HR increases to.  I would guess 170 near the top of the hill.  I did switch my 12-25 to a 12-27 but still don't think it will make a big difference.  I will be able to spin a little faster but my heart will be the limiting factor not my legs on the hills.

On my flat course there is a very minor hill and I have noticed that my wattage goes up to over 300 when I do this hill.  I averaged about 230 watts last night.

I love the PowerTap because I will really be able to measure an increase in candence.  If I can get it between 85 - 90 average on a flat course on a regular basis and somewhat comfortably then I can start increasing my gearing and start seeing my wattage increase.  This is the plan.

The hope is by my big race next September I will have both increase my average candence by 10% and my wattage by 10%.  Then I will be extremely happy.  Even an increase of wattage of 5% will get me to my goal.  But I want the 10% increase in candence.

You should really read up on training with power.

First, I don't know why you're putting such an emphasis on HR when you don't even know what your HR readings mean to you. 141 or 170 to you means something much different to me than it will to you.

Second, power is far more important than cadence; changing cadence should not be your priority -- increasing power should be (I know you mentioned you want to do that as well, but you're focusing way too much on cadence).

Third, you really need to do some sort of test to develop your power and HR benchmarks. Just going out and comparing one ride to another won't do it.

A power meter is very effective tool, but you really need to learn how to use it, otherwise it just becomes an expensive cyclocomputer.

You don't have to get to a watts improvement by working on cadence first and then gearing second. It doesn't quite work like that....

Seriously, focus on the watts. Your comfort zone, in terms of cadence and gearing will come naturally.

My point is that your 'goal' doesn't make any sense.  You want to make the bike go faster.  Not your pedals.  That means power, not cadence.  Focus on wattage, let cadence figure itself out.  Not the other way around.

Edit:  And, yeah, what she said ^^^^. 

Spinning at a higher cadence won't increase your HR unless it's under increased load.  As others have said, it's all about watts or power.  If you can't spin at the same cadence when you shift to a higher gear, then you need to be work on generating more power by getting stronger, improving your technique & efficiency, etc.

I'm reminded of the Greg LeMond quote: "It doesn't get easier, you just get faster"

HR is a very individualistic thing and you need to establish you own LTHR, if it's going to mean anything to you.

Mark 

Read the Allen and Coggan book multiple times.

In the winter on the trainer I do different workouts with varying cadence and power goals. My HR is always lower when I do same power with lower cadence than when I do same power with higher cadence. I find when I'm tired I tend to cheat when I am not doing specific cadence workouts by dropping my cadence so it is easier on me to reach watt goals.

To your point...I think I understand you asking why your HR doesn't get up over 141 not that 141 is a golden number. Thinking that is kind of low for work you are doing?

Perhaps it is your ability to push yourself? When I first started training my run and bike HR zones were about 20 beats different as I wasn't able to push myself as much cycling as running. It took a year or two to be able to push cycling more and then my zones were about 7-8 beats apart.

Or how you trained this summer?

I'm not going to add to all the great answers above about power and watts - that's the true measure/goal.

However, just thought it was interesting that the OP can't hit 141.  That's pretty low.

But that's neither here nor there.

Thanks for all the tips.  Yes I think a HR of 141 for me is very low.  I will run tonight and monitor my HR but in the past it would be closer to 160 and above.

I very much want to increase my power but I also want to increase my cadence.  Increasing my cadence is for health reasons.  The health of my knees.  Plus I have read that a higher cadence will do a better job of saving my legs for the run.  I believe it was referred to using slowtwich mucles.  I read somewhere that a cadence of 90 was ideal for then running.

It sounds several are suggesting that I increase wattage first.  Which I could do by taking my cadence down to 60-70.  What is not clear to me is how and when will I increase my cadence? 

I have trained relatively hard for the last year.  I just got the power meter and I am learning.  But what I have done in the past I think has been accidently somewhat correct.  I would do 3 flat workouts a week mostly building miles.  Then once or twice a week I would do a very hilly course.  I notice that once I added the hills I got faster.  The hilly course would put a huge load on me for 5 - 10 minutes depending on what hill.  Then I would recover and do it again.  But up the hills my cadence is really low. 

I basically want to get a similiar workout but on flat ground with a higher cadence.  I know I have a lot to learn and I am going to read some of the books out there. 

Maybe as a compromise I can ride with a high cadence and then ride in a lower gear for a period which will allow me to ride at a higher wattage for a while and then do some recovery at a high cadence.  I just wish I could do this while keeping my cadense up relatively high.  Something like

Cadence   90     Wattage 225

Cadence 85       Wattage 300

But I am not able to. 

I have read others have increased their cadence and initally took a hit on wattage but after a few weeks were back to the same wattage as before with the higher cadence and then started increasing their wattage while maintaining a higher cadence.

There's some conjecture on whether a higher cadence is better or not.  If you want to increase your cadence, once a week on one of those flat rides that you consider an "easy ride" put in a technique session.  This would include one legged drills (don't unclip!) and spinning.  Just use a light gear and see how high you can go.  The purpose of this workout would be to improve your pedalling technique, not to get the most power or distance or highest speed.  

 Now that you've started training with power, hide the HR display.  It responds too slowly to changes in workload and is easily thrown off by outside influences such as stress and cute girls.  

 There's no reason you can't do intervals on the flats.  Just pedal harder and faster.  It's even better with a power meter because you can regulate the average power for the "on" part of the interval regardless of the slope.  Intervals are classic training for running and cycling.  All of the plans on here include some form of intervals for the workouts.  And trust me, indoor trainer workouts are boring without intervals to break it up!

I hate to keep beating this, but if this is really your goal then forget worrying about cadence.  Just ride.  A lot.  Hard.  You have a PT, which gives you great, instant feedback about 'hard'.  Ignore the cadence feature.  Don't even put it on your display.

Au contraire .....

It doesn't make much of a difference what cadence you are riding.  If you went hard in the water, and got on the bike and pushed some definitive pace, regardless of cadence, you will still have a high HR.

Yes, if you increase your cadence in the exact same gear, then you will indeed be generating more power which will raise your HR.  But if you are going 20 mph, it does not matter if you are spinning in a 39/16 or mashing a 53/16, you are still generating the same amount of power needed to overcome the resistance that slows you down.

P = W/T (power = work done per unit of time)

The power put out by an engine is equal to the force it exerts times its velocity.  This is relevant to cycling as we are considered the engine.

To really simplify it, you need "X" wattage to be able to overcome two factors to move your mass at "Y" speed.  Those two factors are rolling resistance and aerodynamic resistance.  Air and friction resistance doesn't give a crap what cadence you are pedaling, you still have to overcome it.

As for cyclists riding differently than triathletes??  Hogwash.  There is no particular way a pure cyclist rides that is the most efficient and therefore everyone uses that.  Every single rider is different!  Now, they may push a lot harder and higher wattage over the same distance BECAUSE they do not have to run afterwards, but again, that is not at all a factor of cadence, but of power output.

You used to be right.