Calling on the swim experts out there.......
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() It is with a little fear and trepidation that I ask this question but I am really looking for some honest help. Above is some video from a swim I did this morning (w/10 second intro screen). I know my arm entry/stroke is causing me to bend awkwardly. I need to drop some weight (in progress, down 15 pounds). I also think I need to keep my legs straighter, not sure how to accomplish that. Take a look if you have a little time and post your constructive comments. BIG thnx in advance!
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm certainly not a swim expert but one thing I noticed is that you have a tendency to zig zag your way down the lane, drifting to the side your next breath in one. Seemed more noticable on the left side. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() southwestmba - 2008-10-18 7:16 PM I'm certainly not a swim expert but one thing I noticed is that you have a tendency to zig zag your way down the lane, drifting to the side your next breath in one. Seemed more noticable on the left side. Yea. I think my crossing over with the right arm is causing it. Not swimming real straight. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() no expert but looks like when you are breathing, your almost looking back a bit to keep the water out of your mouth. Keep your head straight. Once again no expert ![]() |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() quit breathing ![]() Your lifting your head and you appear to be looking behind you when you breathe. When you're not breathing you "bury" your head in the water. IMO your head should be slightly higher when not breathing, and at the same position when you rotate to breathe. You cross-over the center line on your stroke. More so when you breathe. You have no kick, and IMO you're trying to rotate too much at the hips. The combination of lifting your head, crossing over the center-line, and a lack of kick to stabilize you is causing you to fishtail. You also drop your elbow early in the stroke. Again it's worse on the stroke you take while breathing. Keep your elbow above your hand. This is preventing you from getting a good catch, thus you're not getting any leverage to propel yourself. On the positive side: you look comfortable in the water, your body position isn't bad, and your comfortable with bi-lateral swimming. scott |
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Bob![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Scott makes some excellent observations. I like that he noticed that you are very comfortable in the water. Two things that I would work on to begin with are the arms crossing over your midline and your head position. You can work on your kick but you should be able to swim in a strait line with no kick so I would save that for later if needed. Try picture something extending strait out from your shoulders that would not allow your hands to enter that space between your shoulders. This space is no hands land. Your hand should enter and extend in line with your shoulder and not in front of your head. If you look in your video you can see your hand entering in front of your head then extending across the midline and your head follows it's lead. I notice that your head is looking strait down at the bottom and when you breathe it actually looks like you are looking backwards. Try to hold your head closer to a 45 degree angle so you're looking a bit forward. There are some people that will tell you to look strait down but I don't teach that and I don't do it myself. By looking forward you can also see where your hands enter the water. If your hand is in front of your face it's too far inside the "no hands zone". On a very good note, you look extremely comfortable and smooth in the water. This is a key to becoming an efficient swimmer. Your body position when you push off the walls is very good as well. Speaking of body position, another great visual is to picture a steel rod going from the top of your forehead through your spine and coming out your a$$. (Picture yourself on a rotisserie Great video! There are some video clips on my blog of me doing some different drills and showing a cross-over stroke. Check them out. I hope this helps you out. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I had a look at your video and noticed a couple of things: 1. Hand entry -right now, your hands are entering the water right in front of your head, then pushing forward underwater (causing drag) then pulling down under your body. What this is doing, is eliminating the front quadrant of your stroke (and most important part!). Instead, imagine there is a clock surrounding your body with 12 being arms in a streamlined position and 6 being hands at your sides. Work on entering the water at 11 and 1 or even 10 and 2 instead of 12 (where your hands are currently entering). Also, enter the water when your arms are extended so your not pushing your hands forward underwater. Changing your hand entry will help eliminate the sideways zigzag movement...or what I like to call the butt dance! 2. Front quadrant catch - when your hands enter the water at 11 and 1 (or 10 and 2 as noted above) press with your chest and your under-arm area as you rotate naturally onto your side. As you do this, move your arm slightly out keeping your elbow high. Then, pull your arm down keeping your elbow high. 3. Head position - at times it looks like your head is completely underwater (too low). Your neck should be flat (not looking down at your tows or up at the end of the pool) eyes should look slightly forward at the bottom of the pool. 4. Your legs look like they are swinging wide due to your zigzagging. If you stop crossing over with your arms this should improve. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. FWIW - I had the fastest amateur female swim splits at Alcatraz and Timberman this year. I am also a certified USA and Masters swim coach. |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() your also putting your hands in the water at the 12 o'clock position...while this isn't bad it could be some of the issue your having with your cross-over on your breathing stroke...aim more for 11 and 1 o'clock positions... see if that place has a "Masters" program...you would certainly benefit from some coaching for awhile...if they do it's usually a pay as you go setup...so get the stroke help and quit if you want...its going to be your cheapest way out overall... one other note...weight means nothing in the water...if anything your MORE bouyant...and I have been outswam by LOTS of people that are much bigger than I am...not by a small margin either... |
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Bob![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() |
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Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm really dizzy watching the first part of the video. You're film crew must have been drinking! =) I'm no expert, but I did swim competitively for 15 years or so. Like everyone has already stated, you're not that bad off in the water. A couple little "tweaks" and you're going to make some huge improvements. You're biggest issue, that I think is causing some of the other problems, is the cross-over with your arms. By crossing over the midline, you're causing your entire body to "fish" back and forth. I would try a "fingertip drag" drill to help with a couple factors. 1) It's going to help you get your elbow higher than your hand. The other thing it will do is help you focus on where you are putting your hands in out in front of you. Really focus on "dragging" your fingertips straight forward from the back of your stroke all the way to the front (as far as your arm will go). It's also going to help prevent you from driving your hands in right in front of your head and then reaching all the way out in front of you. A previous poster talked about pretending you were a rotisserie chicken on a skewer. That's absolutely something that would benefit you. A good drill to practice getting that body roll is to do a pull and roll on your side, then kick and hold your bottom arm (if you're on your side it's the arm closer to the bottom of the pool) out in front of you for three seconds. Then, pull with that arm and roll to the other side and do the same three second count as you kick on the other side with your bottom arm fully extended. Your top arm should rest on your hip (which should be on the surface of the water). I'm not sure if I described it well enough to make sense, but basically you'll be delaying your normal stroke on each side for a prolonged count to really focus on the "rolling" of your body. Someone made reference to your kick not being very strong. I've never had a strong kick, and probably never will. The kick only provides about 30% of the power in the stroke, so luckily it's not as critical. You have a two-beat kick, which means that you kick twice for every stroke you take. That's perfectly fine for a triathlon. If you were a sprinter, you'd definitely need to work hard to get that up to a six-beat kick, but I think the drill where you focus on "rolling" back and forth instead of fishing back and forth will help make your kick much more efficient. Final two thoughts. You are definitely burying your head. That's causing a lot of extra resistance since the water is hitting the back of your head and your neck. But, more importantly, with your head down too far, you're really causing a lot of your other issues with body position. They used to teach us to swim with the water on our eyebrow line. That has now changed as they say you're swimming uphill by doing so. Now they say that you should keep your head straight in line with your body, just like you do when you're standing up and have the water hit directly on the top of your head while you look directly down at the bottom of the pool. Admittedly I struggle with this one myself after so many years of training differently, but for you, it might not be such a difficult switch. The last issue isn't anything I "see" but I'm guessing it's happening based on your entry and your body mechanics. Just like you want high elbows out of the water, you want good high elbows below the water. The best image I was always told was to pretend you're swimming with a big barrell under your chest. You want to pretend like you're rolling over the tops of those barrells, reaching out for them in front of you and then pulling it under your chest and pushing it out behind you towards your feet. I hope I've added a little something for you. If not, pretend you never read this and carry on! =) Good luck with the improvements and the weight loss! Duane |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Awesome advice everyone! Wow. BIG BIG thanx.
Keep the comments coming. Much appreciated.
You'all are the best! Thnx BT! |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Gee, I was going to say you are crossing over in front...but everyone else seems to have that covered. And get a new videographer...this one jiggles the camera too much. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jldicarlo - 2008-10-18 10:23 PM
And get a new videographer...this one jiggles the camera too much. Divorce is expensive! |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jellyfish - 2008-10-18 6:25 PM I had a look at your video and noticed a couple of things: 1. Hand entry -right now, your hands are entering the water right in front of your head, then pushing forward underwater (causing drag) then pulling down under your body. What this is doing, is eliminating the front quadrant of your stroke (and most important part!). Instead, imagine there is a clock surrounding your body with 12 being arms in a streamlined position and 6 being hands at your sides. Work on entering the water at 11 and 1 or even 10 and 2 instead of 12 (where your hands are currently entering). Also, enter the water when your arms are extended so your not pushing your hands forward underwater. Changing your hand entry will help eliminate the sideways zigzag movement...or what I like to call the butt dance! 2. Front quadrant catch - when your hands enter the water at 11 and 1 (or 10 and 2 as noted above) press with your chest and your under-arm area as you rotate naturally onto your side. As you do this, move your arm slightly out keeping your elbow high. Then, pull your arm down keeping your elbow high. 3. Head position - at times it looks like your head is completely underwater (too low). Your neck should be flat (not looking down at your tows or up at the end of the pool) eyes should look slightly forward at the bottom of the pool. 4. Your legs look like they are swinging wide due to your zigzagging. If you stop crossing over with your arms this should improve. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. FWIW - I had the fastest amateur female swim splits at Alcatraz and Timberman this year. I am also a certified USA and Masters swim coach. I think if you focus on jellyfish's advice, you'll vastly improve your swimming. She's right on in her analysis of your stroke. If I was more together I'd videotape my swimming and see if I could coax some advice out of her. |
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Extreme Veteran![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Thanks for the positive feedback on the critique ![]() If anyone wants me to take a look at their stroke on video just PM me. WriteBrained -if you have any more questions please let me know. Also, if any of you are in the Tri state area -I teach 1 on 1 swim lessons (with underwater video analysis) on the weekends in Fairfield County, CT. We also have guest coach Larsen Jensen (2008 Olympian and 1500 American record holder) teaching with us the week of Nov 15 -23rd. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jellyfish - 2008-10-19 6:38 PM Thanks for the positive feedback on the critique ![]() I love that term... Tri state area. Seems like everyone has one, and none of them are the same. To the OP: I see the same thing with the crossover. I also noticed that when you're breathing, you exaggerate your upperbody roll, coming up to stacked shoulders and rotate almost your whole face out of the water. This is causing your next stroke to overcompensate even further with crossover and making the snake motion even worse. You might consider practicing some breathing with one goggle in the water to get an idea of how little shoulder roll you can get away with. Last suggestion I have, is to check out the Total Immersion swimming videos. They address almost all of the little bad habits mentioned above, and suggest drills to help correct them. I think you'd benefit a ton. Kudos for putting your vid up for review. Edited by Beafly 2008-10-19 7:42 PM |
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Elite![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Look at this site: http://www.h2oustonswims.org/articles.html
These articles probably helped me the most lock down my form. The overall site is definately worth bookmarking and reading on your lunch hour |
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Champion![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Wow, the rockstars of advice have weighed in. Between Bob and the Jellyfish, you've got an amazing amount to go forward with. And open lines to talk about it. Can't ask for much more than that.
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Here's my "revised" attempt at swimming based on some solid BT feedback. VIDEO II: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/photos/show-album.asp?albumid=6897&photoid=87419 Thanks to those who provided feedback on VIDEO I. I realize I need to keep my body straighter and head up just a little more. Any other suggestions? |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() jellyfish - 2008-10-19 7:38 PM Thanks for the positive feedback on the critique ![]() How about coming to Tampa and helping me. I am going to try to get someone to video tape me soon. I am focusing on swimming this winter and want to get better, not just put in more yards. |
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![]() | ![]() Video #1 & #2.....You are dragging your legs, this is causing your wigggle! Kicking and engaging your core will allow you to anchor your body during rotation as well as improve your flip turn. Right now when you rotate you are causing your legs to serpentine and its also throwing off your hand entry, streamline, and any chance of a good solid pull. You need to do the following drills with fins, this will eliminate the wiggling that is causing too much wasted energy. |
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Pro![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() From what I can tell, You've got a bit of a body position issue. It seems like your body is "rounded" in relation to the water...meaning your body and your feet are the ends of the arc, with your body in between being arched upwards out of the water. So, in theory, your bum is higher than your head. This causes your legs to be detatched from the body roll, losing all that momentum that makes breathing natural, and making you work a lot harder to breath. To correct this, try this. Think of a line cutting you into two even sections vertically (where the good lord split ye', as my coach used to say). Now, imagine a line that cuts across your chest, nipple to nipple (can I say nipple on BT?). Where those two lines meet, in the center of your chest, on your sternum, is your balance point. When swimming, think about pushing/leaning down on that point in the water. That is your new center of gravity, not your hips or your head. Typically when we walk, our center is somewhere about the belly button area, but when swimming, that gets shifted up a bit higher. Also, engage your abdominals to keep those hips from wagging. Not clenched but you want some contact with those muscles to help keep your backside with the rest of you. I've definitely seen worse crossovers, but you do have a bit of one. Think about reaching in front of your shoulder, rather than your head. That space between your head and shoulder is sort of "dead space"--it's very hard to apply any sort of power in that space, so your body compensates by moving side to side, in an attempt to give you the ability to apply power. You've got a good stroke foundation, for sure. This stuff is all just tweeking to make it easier. Keep up the good work! Edited by phoenixazul 2008-11-06 3:42 PM |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I agree with all the advice not sure if anyone mentioned using a pull buoy between your legs to focus on your arms and head from not dipping down and try to fix what other have said. |
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