General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305? Rss Feed  
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2009-06-17 10:48 PM

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Master
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Subject: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

Today I did a 1:20:00 ride. It consisted of  a 30 minutes on rolling-ish hills, 6x3 minute hill repeats at a cadence of 65-70 and 30 minutes general riding again on a rolling-ish hills. Garmin data showed toatal acent of  1,655 feet and calorie expenditure of 1,396. I've entered my weight into the garmin at 173.

This seems REALLY high to me. Other then the hill repeats, I didn't push the pace. I haven't been on the bike for a while and the main focus of the workout was the hill repeats.

Does that sound right? What have you 305 users noticed with the Garmin's calorie expenditure totals? 



2009-06-17 11:20 PM
in reply to: #2225814

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Expert
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Burnaby, BC
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

From my morning commute:

Garmin "Fantasy" Calories: 718

Powertap work in Calories: 419

2009-06-17 11:25 PM
in reply to: #2225814

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Champion
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Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
Mine always used to vastly overestimate.  (I guess it still would, if it worked at all... Cry )
2009-06-17 11:25 PM
in reply to: #2225834

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Master
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Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

daijoubu - 2009-06-17 9:20 PM

From my morning commute:

Garmin "Fantasy" Calories: 718

Powertap work in Calories: 419

 

Well the Garmin is the only computer I have. So I'd assume that it isen't very accurate? I put the info into my fitday account and for the time duration it said that I burned just over 1,000 calories. The problem is, I've hear that fitday and other online nutrition/fitness journals are not that accurate either.

 

I'm trying to zero in on my nutrition as I begin HIM training and I'd like to shed a few %'s of body fat and about 8 lbs. Having accurate calorie expenditure information is critical.

2009-06-18 12:15 AM
in reply to: #2225842

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Elite
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Gilbert, Az.
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
Mirg - 2009-06-17 9:25 PM

daijoubu - 2009-06-17 9:20 PM

From my morning commute:

Garmin "Fantasy" Calories: 718

Powertap work in Calories: 419

 

Well the Garmin is the only computer I have. So I'd assume that it isen't very accurate? I put the info into my fitday account and for the time duration it said that I burned just over 1,000 calories. The problem is, I've hear that fitday and other online nutrition/fitness journals are not that accurate either.

 

I'm trying to zero in on my nutrition as I begin HIM training and I'd like to shed a few %'s of body fat and about 8 lbs. Having accurate calorie expenditure information is critical.



What was your VO2 again, Mirg?

John
2009-06-18 12:59 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Master
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Chicago
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
My Group coach says it's way off base, but she's the expert not I.

Personally Mine reads VERY high... My Body Bugg is closer to accurate, but even then who knows how close that is. I just know my weight loss is closer in correlation to the BB #s.



2009-06-18 5:14 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
If I remember correctly the 305 uses speed not heart rate in the calorie expenditure formula. I use Sport Tracks instead of the Garmin Training Center and it will import the calories the 305 said you did then you can hit a button and it will formulate the expenditure it thinks you did. The difference was about 500 calories the other day from a 2.5hr ride.
2009-06-18 6:13 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Expert
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Central New Jersey
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
Relying on HRM's etc for calorie expenditures vs. how much food do I need to not be hungry is why so many struggle with their weight and/or nutrition.
2009-06-18 6:20 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
If you want an idea of the number of calories burnt during a ride, you can use the following formula:

(mass in kg) * (0.3 to 0.4Cal/kgkm) * (distance in km)

This should give a better idea than you will get from a HRM.

Shane
2009-06-18 8:00 AM
in reply to: #2225842

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Elite
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Roswell, GA
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

Mirg - 2009-06-18 12:25 AM

I'm trying to zero in on my nutrition as I begin HIM training and I'd like to shed a few %'s of body fat and about 8 lbs. Having accurate calorie expenditure information is critical.

I don't know if you are trying to "zero in" on your calorie deficit for the day or what you need to take in on race day, but this is the best calculator I have found for race day: http://tri-talk.com/TriTalkNC/TriTalkNC.htm

It's a great starting point for your nutrition needs and then you can adjust from there.

 



Edited by brown_dog_us 2009-06-18 8:01 AM
2009-06-18 8:12 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Veteran
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Lewisville
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
I would say that anything other than a true calorimeter is going to give you inaccurate results since they rely on an equation that's been created using data from general populations. As we al know, each of our bodies are very unique and any number of factors can contribute to the amount of energy burned from person to person. I would guess that you can take the number provided from any sort of device and it will be accurate to +/- 200-300 calories per hour.

I've seen data from Garmin, the bodybugg, polar, etc and they all give me different numbers. That being said, the device that uses the most data points (age, height, weight, % muscle mass, etc) will be more accurate than those that have fewer data points. 


2009-06-18 8:17 AM
in reply to: #2225951

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
gsmacleod - 2009-06-18 7:20 AM If you want an idea of the number of calories burnt during a ride, you can use the following formula:

(mass in kg) * (0.3 to 0.4Cal/kgkm) * (distance in km)

This should give a better idea than you will get from a HRM.

Shane


Good Calc Shane.  Do you have one for running and swimming too?

That's funny you guys bring this up because last year, I counted calories pretty strictly and was losing weight really fast, but the nutritionist I was working with was floored when I told her how many calories my Garmin said I was burning.  So she did some other calcs for me and we came up with pretty close to that calc above came up with.
2009-06-18 8:25 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Pro
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Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

I am not really a calorie counter but use this when i want estimates for whatever reason:

 

http://primusweb.com/fitnesspartner/jumpsite/calculat.htm

2009-06-18 8:25 AM
in reply to: #2226127

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
GomesBolt - 2009-06-18 10:17 AM

Good Calc Shane.  Do you have one for running and swimming too?

That's funny you guys bring this up because last year, I counted calories pretty strictly and was losing weight really fast, but the nutritionist I was working with was floored when I told her how many calories my Garmin said I was burning.  So she did some other calcs for me and we came up with pretty close to that calc above came up with.


Rough guidelines but:

Swim - 100Cal/400m
Run - 1Cal/kgkm

Shane
2009-06-18 8:33 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Regular
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Barrie, Ontario, Canada
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
I'm not sure it really matters how accurate the number of callories burned is.  What is important is that it measures consistently.  Measure your callories burned and calloric intake for a period of time using whatever tool you chose.  Weigh yourself at the beginning and end of this period.  Adjust either your callories burned (exercise more) or intake (eat less) based on how much weight you did or didn't lose/gain.  If your method of measurment is consistant, it doesn't matter what the absolute number is.

The more difficult part is managing your energy level by the type callories you ingest and the times you ingest them. 

Spend your time and energy training instead of counting.
2009-06-18 9:30 AM
in reply to: #2225814

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Expert
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Burnaby, BC
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

The best tool I've found for tracking weight loss and calorie deficit is Hackers Diet at http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/.

It won't ask you to track what you eat or how you exercise, it works on the theory of calories in - calories out = weight change.  It assumes that your weight change is because of fat loss and is converted at 3500 Calories per pound of fat.

As for your Ironman nutrition, I don't think your body can absorb 100% of the calories you burn.  You'll have to play with your nutrition during training to find how many Calories per hour your body can absorb (about 300/hour) and in what forms you prefer it, sports drink, gels, fig newmans, etc.

As for the accuracy of various devices, well Garmin is pretty far off as it relies solely on speed.  Climbing takes a lot of work, but is done at a low speed.  Descending is pretty easy, but done at a high speed.  Wind messes it up even more.  The powertap is pretty accurate as it measures work performed (torque X rotational velocity X time).  1Calorie = 4.2kJ but the body is about 25% efficient at converting energy into work so you get 1Calorie burnt for 1kJ of work performed on the bike.

As the poster above suggested, pick a formula and be consistent.  Make wise food choices during the day (larger breakfast, smaller dinner, 4 meals a day, each meal about 55% carbs) and watch the scale to see long term weight change.  Pay attention to fatigue and your ability to perform the next days workout to determine if you ate enough the previous day.



2009-06-18 9:59 AM
in reply to: #2225834

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, Texas
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
daijoubu - 2009-06-17 11:20 PM

From my morning commute:

Garmin "Fantasy" Calories: 718

Powertap work in Calories: 419



Yes, but what does the PowerTap give you? I'd assume that's the work in calories at the rear hub, right? If so, it's going to be pretty low considering that sitting at my desk, I burn almost 100 cal/hr. I'd imagine that my body consumes more than that which doesn't translate to power seen by the PT when I'm pedaling a bike. Although, I could see them adding in a general xcals/hr in to their formula to try to get it more realistic.

Also, the new Garmin 405CX & 310XT have a new HR formula from spammer  that claims a 7% calorie etimation. Their basis is off of recording the time in between each and every heartbeat amongst other stuff (METs, MaxHR, etc) to estimate it. Here is the whitepaper for their research. This is also the same company Suunto uses for their (at least) T6 HRM.
2009-06-18 10:18 AM
in reply to: #2226502

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Expert
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Burnaby, BC
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

camy - 2009-06-18 7:59 AM
daijoubu - 2009-06-17 11:20 PM

From my morning commute:

Garmin "Fantasy" Calories: 718

Powertap work in Calories: 419



Yes, but what does the PowerTap give you? I'd assume that's the work in calories at the rear hub, right? If so, it's going to be pretty low considering that sitting at my desk, I burn almost 100 cal/hr. I'd imagine that my body consumes more than that which doesn't translate to power seen by the PT when I'm pedaling a bike. Although, I could see them adding in a general xcals/hr in to their formula to try to get it more realistic.

Also, the new Garmin 405CX & 310XT have a new HR formula from spammer  that claims a 7% calorie etimation. Their basis is off of recording the time in between each and every heartbeat amongst other stuff (METs, MaxHR, etc) to estimate it. Here is the whitepaper for their research. This is also the same company Suunto uses for their (at least) T6 HRM.

That 100 Cal/hr while sitting at your desk is your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR).  That's where you get the basic recommendation that you should eat 2500 Cal/day to maintain your weight.  From here you add in the calories burned during exercise.  You don't want to include your BMR in that measurement.  The powertap measures work performed in kJ.  This can be converted to Calories burned as I explained above.

That data was from my morning commute.  It's 11.8 km with a 1000' climb over the last 4 km.  It takes me 40 mins on average.  

BTW, how does the 310XT and the 405XT record heart beat intervals when set to smart recording?

2009-06-18 10:47 AM
in reply to: #2226561

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, Texas
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
daijoubu - 2009-06-18 10:18 AM

BTW, how does the 310XT and the 405XT record heart beat intervals when set to smart recording?



I don't know, but I'm assuming the software on the 310 is doing the calculations so it doesn't need to upload the heart beat intervals. I don't think the Garmin is doing all of the EPOC & TE stuff (like the Suunto t6 does) from FirstBeat, so they don't need the PC software to be able to read the heart beat intervals, but this is purely speculation on my part.

As for the PT vs Garmin numbers you posted, I guess my point was that it's not apples to apples since I'm assuming the Garmin does include the BMR in it's calcualtions (but maybe that was a bad assumption). At any rate, I do agree the 305 is wonky with calorie estimation
2009-06-18 11:10 AM
in reply to: #2226655

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Master
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CHINA GROVE N.C., North Carolina
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expendituahowing on 305re information on the Garmin 305?
FWIW....maybe it's listed above but I have heard more than once to divide calories burned on 305 by 1.5 to get close to the actual number.

2009-06-18 1:07 PM
in reply to: #2225871

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Master
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Chandler, Arizona
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

tkd.teacher - 2009-06-17 10:15 PM
Mirg - 2009-06-17 9:25 PM

daijoubu - 2009-06-17 9:20 PM

From my morning commute:

Garmin "Fantasy" Calories: 718

Powertap work in Calories: 419

 

Well the Garmin is the only computer I have. So I'd assume that it isen't very accurate? I put the info into my fitday account and for the time duration it said that I burned just over 1,000 calories. The problem is, I've hear that fitday and other online nutrition/fitness journals are not that accurate either.

 

I'm trying to zero in on my nutrition as I begin HIM training and I'd like to shed a few %'s of body fat and about 8 lbs. Having accurate calorie expenditure information is critical.



What was your VO2 again, Mirg?

John

 

50.6



2009-06-18 1:15 PM
in reply to: #2226181

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Master
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Chandler, Arizona
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

Mrdaner - 2009-06-18 6:33 AM I'm not sure it really matters how accurate the number of callories burned is.  What is important is that it measures consistently.  Measure your callories burned and calloric intake for a period of time using whatever tool you chose.  Weigh yourself at the beginning and end of this period.  Adjust either your callories burned (exercise more) or intake (eat less) based on how much weight you did or didn't lose/gain.  If your method of measurment is consistant, it doesn't matter what the absolute number is.

The more difficult part is managing your energy level by the type callories you ingest and the times you ingest them. 

Spend your time and energy training instead of counting.

 

Sorry but garbage in garbage out. If I think I'm burning 500 more calories an hour while cycling then I really am and I aim for a calorie consumption that provides a daily defcit of 500 calories then I'm not going to lose a pound a week and I'm likely to maintain or gain weight. I know that I'm not going to be able to get an exact number of calories burned but you've got to be as accurate as possible. I can't just use some wacky arbitriary number and base my eating off that and expect to get the results that I want. 

 

Thanks for the advice everybody! Lots of good stuff to look at. Thank you!

2009-06-18 1:15 PM
in reply to: #2225814

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Elite
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Gilbert, Az.
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
Hotay, I've got my ACSM metabolic calc book around at home somewhere. I think there is something in there to convert a VO2 max figure into a calorie burning estimate.

John
2009-06-18 1:22 PM
in reply to: #2227132

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Master
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Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?

tkd.teacher - 2009-06-18 11:15 AM Hotay, I've got my ACSM metabolic calc book around at home somewhere. I think there is something in there to convert a VO2 max figure into a calorie burning estimate.

John

Cool! Let me know what you find if you have time to look that up. I appreciate it!

2009-06-18 1:37 PM
in reply to: #2225814

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Macon, GA
Subject: RE: How accurate is the calorie expenditure information on the Garmin 305?
I think the Garmin in WAY off. I did an 80 mile ride yesterday nad my Garmin threw out 7368 in expended calories. My powertap had my kjoules at around 3000. The ride took right at 4 hours - so I think the powertap number is better
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