login
Last night's group ride and question
-
No new posts
|
 2009-07-16 7:10 AM |
 128  |  Subject: Last night's group ride and questionLet me first start out by giving you a little backgroud. New to tri's, have done two and loved them so decided to join the local tri club. I have been biking with the B-C group and have enjoyed it- they keep about a 18-19 mph average. When I ride I keep about a 20-20.5 avg so was looking for something a little more. Last night I rode with the A group and got absolutely humiliated. I would spin as hard as I could but they would just get further and further away no matter how hard I tried. I thought I was a good cyclist... until today. There were about three packs- I bet the first pack was going 25 mph the second pack had to be going 23-24 mph and then there was me- who averaged 20.3 (including the stops!) mph on a 35 mile ride on a windy day- so far back it was unbelievable. My question is: 1) When you go for a group ride and you have to wait on someone does it annoy the group participants? I was pounding the entire time, I was not taking it easy! 2) Should I come back or would they tell me to get beat? 3) Should I just go back to the B's and have a nice leisurely spin? I am really conflicted here because I have never gotten beat so bad- I mean really bad. |
| 2009-07-16 7:21 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Champion 7595    Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question joshboots - 2009-07-16 8:10 AM ... My question is: 1) When you go for a group ride and you have to wait on someone does it annoy the group participants? I was pounding the entire time, I was not taking it easy! Different rides are different, but this appears to have been one where people can be dropped. There is usually a policy (spoken or unspoken) in the group. Around here, they advertise themselves as 'no drop' or 'drop'. 2) Should I come back or would they tell me to get beat? Hard to see why they'd care since you were behind the entire time! 3) Should I just go back to the B's and have a nice leisurely spin? I wouldn't. I'd keep going back until I can hang with them. |
| 2009-07-16 7:27 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Expert 790 | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question I was in your situation a few months back, and I was dropped 32 miles into a 56 mile ride. The only way to get faster is to ride faster. If I were you, I'd go back. |
| 2009-07-16 7:27 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
| Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question I would not gove up on it. Humilliation os a good motivator sometimes. Also, of you don't get pushed, you will not improve. Try getting into the slipstream, if you can stay on someone's wheel, it is easier to go the same speed. |
| 2009-07-16 8:01 AM in reply to: #2288800 |
| 128 | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question chandy14ski - 2009-07-16 7:27 AM I would not gove up on it. Humilliation os a good motivator sometimes. Also, of you don't get pushed, you will not improve. Try getting into the slipstream, if you can stay on someone's wheel, it is easier to go the same speed. I tried hard to get in the slipstream! I would hang there for a couple miles and then... poof... they were gone. |
| 2009-07-16 8:09 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Regular 96 Novi, MI | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question What gear were you riding in? You should have been able to maintain their speed without spinning out. I suggest that you keep riding with them and adjust gears until you are comfortable. It may take time, but stick with it. |
| 2009-07-16 8:16 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Champion 5117 Brandon, MS | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question Ride a few with the B group and do a lot of pulling. You'll get a good ride in and a few others will get to ride faster than they would otherwise. Every now and then, pop up to the A group. Don't worry about being humiliated because everyone gets dropped at some point in the quest to go faster. |
| 2009-07-16 8:24 AM in reply to: #2288929 |
Champion 10020 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question Dude - I've been there. Unfortunately my tri club didn't have a slower group. Regarding your question about whether people mind waiting, I would say yes. They won't tell you, but they are annoyed to stop partway through and wait. I would go back, but bring the route map and say "I'm going to hang as long as I can, but please don't wait for me. I mean it." It wouldn't hurt to recruit another slightly slower rider to go up with you I really like the idea of going back and forth between the groups. Experiencing setting the pace and pull the slower group would be great. Maybe there are others who'd like to go faster, and splitting the B and Cs is in order. Even if you found two other people to go with you. Pulling might be a better workout in the sense that it better simulates what you'll be doing on race day. Riding with a group in a slipstream, while fun, it's a particularly useful skill for a triathlete. But I agree that going with the A group will also be a wonderful motivator, if you can get past the feeling of being a loser |
I did that and it helped me feel a lot better, but that's also how I learned they don't like waiting. They mentioned to me as we waited for the other gal - wow, this ride is so slow today...| 2009-07-16 9:12 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Veteran 297 horseheads | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question i started this year riding with the roadies for extra saddle time... when i started i was holding on to the last wheel and that hurt like the dickens..... tuesday nights are everyman for himself and if you get dropped you are on your own. thursdays are friendly wait at the tops of climbs and such. it took a while but now i can make THEM work to keep up with me. on a side note i ALWAYS wait for them as i figure it is a "group" ride. so long story short...... ride like the dickens to hold onto the wheel (which is hard to do when they are in the aero bars, as there isn't much draft effect) keep coming back and working at it...... you will get better look for other nights with less "everyman for himself" mentality keep at it. |
| 2009-07-16 9:13 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question joshboots - 2009-07-16 7:10 AM Let me first start out by giving you a little backgroud. New to tri's, have done two and loved them so decided to join the local tri club. I have been biking with the B-C group and have enjoyed it- they keep about a 18-19 mph average. When I ride I keep about a 20-20.5 avg so was looking for something a little more. Last night I rode with the A group and got absolutely humiliated. I would spin as hard as I could but they would just get further and further away no matter how hard I tried. I thought I was a good cyclist... until today. There were about three packs- I bet the first pack was going 25 mph the second pack had to be going 23-24 mph and then there was me- who averaged 20.3 (including the stops!) mph on a 35 mile ride on a windy day- so far back it was unbelievable. My question is: 1) When you go for a group ride and you have to wait on someone does it annoy the group participants? I was pounding the entire time, I was not taking it easy! 2) Should I come back or would they tell me to get beat? 3) Should I just go back to the B's and have a nice leisurely spin? I am really conflicted here because I have never gotten beat so bad- I mean really bad. 1) It can be annoying to wait on people. Especially if you are trying to get a good workout in, or if you need to get home. It's equally annoying with someone KNOWS they can't hang with the group but they try to ride with the group. It's less annoying if someone accidentally goes with the wrong group. I find it less annoying as well if that person is OK getting dropped and can find their way back. Someone who can't hang and needs someone to help them get back = annoying. 2) Go back. Be prepared to get dropped from the group. Assure them that if you get dropped, not to worry about you. You know the route. Now, make sure you know the route and are you are OK with finding your own way back. 3) Don't go back to the B's. Keeping pushing yourself with the A group. You will find yourself improving and one of these days you won't get dropped. |
| 2009-07-16 9:17 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question Make sure you have the route down or have que sheets and just let them go ahead when you pop. I see two great solutions.... 1. Show up to the A group and hold on for dear life until you pop....you'll be sitting in the back enjoying being pulled down the road. 2. Do the B group, sit at the front of the group and do all the work.....control the pace. You'll still get a solid ride sitting at the front doing tempo. I'd mix it up.... |
| 2009-07-16 10:28 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Expert 1053 Culpeper, VA | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question New to group riding myself, but I think it depends on the riders and the group. 1) We stop once or twice on the route, generally at major turns to regroup and pick up the stragglers. Our A group tends to split into three as well, a few riders that form a small front group that hammers it, a chase pack that keeps a nice pace line and then one or two people that drop off a bit. Speeds seem relative to what you are describing. I would say talk to some of the riders before heading out if you have questions. 2) Absolutely would go back, especially if they are better bikers than you are. I hang with my local A riders and keeping up with them is a good workout and motivating. I'm also picking up some useful tips from them as well. I try not to do this much since it is supposed to be a "group" ride, but I will drop back sometimes and hammer it to catch up... sort of my own private interval session during the ride. 3) I would vote no for the B's if they are like the B's in our group. Not to talk bad about them, but their pace would be too leisurely for me. What sort of geography was this ride on? Around here with hills all over the place riding a 20.3 average would be real good. |
| 2009-07-16 10:39 AM in reply to: #2289287 |
| 128 | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question xeon - 2009-07-16 10:28 AM New to group riding myself, but I think it depends on the riders and the group. 1) We stop once or twice on the route, generally at major turns to regroup and pick up the stragglers. Our A group tends to split into three as well, a few riders that form a small front group that hammers it, a chase pack that keeps a nice pace line and then one or two people that drop off a bit. Speeds seem relative to what you are describing. I would say talk to some of the riders before heading out if you have questions. 2) Absolutely would go back, especially if they are better bikers than you are. I hang with my local A riders and keeping up with them is a good workout and motivating. I'm also picking up some useful tips from them as well. I try not to do this much since it is supposed to be a "group" ride, but I will drop back sometimes and hammer it to catch up... sort of my own private interval session during the ride. 3) I would vote no for the B's if they are like the B's in our group. Not to talk bad about them, but their pace would be too leisurely for me. What sort of geography was this ride on? Around here with hills all over the place riding a 20.3 average would be real good. Fairly hilly- not overly hilly though. I would say the wind played a greater factor than the hills (15-25 mph wind) |
| 2009-07-16 11:22 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
| Member 17 | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question Maybe pick your spots for a few weeks? On a night with low wind, short route, fewer hills or when you are feeling good go with the A group. When the route seems harder or you feel tired go with the B group. In a few weeks you will be able to tell who the real big guns are in the A group and when they will be pushing the pace. When they aren't around you can jump to the A group. I bet in no time you are with the A group all the time. |
| 2009-07-16 12:50 PM in reply to: #2288767 |
Member 180 Kayak Point, WA | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question I ride with a group of roadies on a regular basis (the bulk of my riding) and there is no doubt in my mind that the group I ride with is by far the best training for for on my bike, and I would recommend to everyone to find a group that you can ride with. We have 3 groups, slow and casual, medium pace (15-19 mph), fast pace (20+). Every night is different, different people, different energy, weather, etc, etc, etc. I made it clear from the first time that I got dropped that I really appreciated people coming back to try to pull me back to the group, but I don't have any problem getting dropped, it makes me stronger. Over the course of last year I got to the point where I could keep up with the pack most of the time and could even pull for short stints some evenings, still was never a contender at KOM's or sprints. The begining of this year the "fast" group was out of control (pulling at 27-32 mph). I told the leader that I was going to drop down to the medium group and he convinced me to stick with them and they would slow it down (he agreed it was a little too much for more than just me). They did a better job of controlling them selves (we still hit 27mph) just not as regularly and they slowed more often to let the back of the group hang on. Now it is the middle of the season and the group rides really well together and I can hang on to 27mph and even hang on to a sprint at 32+. My point is that the group will have it's own dynamics for all sorts of reasons and every night is likely to be different. Some times the strongest of riders can't hang with the group and sometimes they can. Find the best group to "fit" into and work your way into and up the group. It WILL make you a stronger rider! Michael |
| 2009-07-16 1:02 PM in reply to: #2289673 |
Master 1402 Cumming, Georgia | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question ^^^ x2. I agree that riding with groups is a good way to get faster. Riding alone it is too easy to get lazy and not really realize it. When I was new to the area I rode with slower groups since I didn't know the roads. Now I don't care if I get dropped but I try my best not to be the last one |
| 2009-07-16 2:53 PM in reply to: #2288767 |
| Expert 658 | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question Roadie's aren't there to have a good time with newbies like triathlons are. Roadies are out there to make each other hurt and to get their bragging points. Stick with the B ride, just schedule it as one of your easier rides of the week if they are relatively slower than you. |
| 2009-07-16 3:44 PM in reply to: #2288767 |
Elite 2768 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question Also remember that is you are riding with a fast group and are on the back wheel riding the free wind, after a while they will expect you to pull some... it gets annoying to have someone in a pack always draft and not get out there and suffer some and pull everyone else around. |
| 2009-07-16 3:55 PM in reply to: #2290143 |
| 128 | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question trigods - 2009-07-16 3:44 PM Also remember that is you are riding with a fast group and are on the back wheel riding the free wind, after a while they will expect you to pull some... it gets annoying to have someone in a pack always draft and not get out there and suffer some and pull everyone else around. Believe me- I wish I could have sucked their wheel longer. I think I am going to keep on going back, if they continue to push me, I will continue to get better and someday, come from the back to take a pull. Once I take a pull, or stick with them, then it is a win for everyone. I do understand what you are saying though and appreciate it. I just don't get my HR or legs nearly the workout I did last night with the "A" team. |
| 2009-07-16 4:02 PM in reply to: #2290143 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question trigods - 2009-07-16 3:44 PM Also remember that is you are riding with a fast group and are on the back wheel riding the free wind, after a while they will expect you to pull some... it gets annoying to have someone in a pack always draft and not get out there and suffer some and pull everyone else around. Meh, why care what the people in the back are doing? As long as they don't interfere with the rotation, they're welcome to ride along. Maybe by hanging on they'll gain some confidence and improve their ability. I'm not going to fault them for not pulling for 30 seconds every 10 miles. That's more of a roadie attitude. |
| 2009-07-17 8:12 AM in reply to: #2290187 |
Elite 2768 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question the bear - 2009-07-16 4:02 PM trigods - 2009-07-16 3:44 PM Also remember that is you are riding with a fast group and are on the back wheel riding the free wind, after a while they will expect you to pull some... it gets annoying to have someone in a pack always draft and not get out there and suffer some and pull everyone else around. Meh, why care what the people in the back are doing? As long as they don't interfere with the rotation, they're welcome to ride along. Maybe by hanging on they'll gain some confidence and improve their ability. I'm not going to fault them for not pulling for 30 seconds every 10 miles. That's more of a roadie attitude. I agree with you but it sounds like he is riding with roadies... I know when I first started and rode with the fast group for a while one of them asked me if I was ever going to pull my weight... so depending on the group, soime might expect it. |
| 2009-07-17 9:52 AM in reply to: #2290187 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question the bear - 2009-07-16 3:02 PM trigods - 2009-07-16 3:44 PM Also remember that is you are riding with a fast group and are on the back wheel riding the free wind, after a while they will expect you to pull some... it gets annoying to have someone in a pack always draft and not get out there and suffer some and pull everyone else around. Meh, why care what the people in the back are doing? +2. Riders that are all that concerned with the weaker riders pulling their weight must not be all that strong themselves. IMO, the goal of a group should be to get all the members through the course as fast as possible which means stronger riders pull more. Personally, I get A LOT more pleasure from seeing a rider successfully (but barely) hang on (with my help out front if necessary), than trying to prove that I'm a big fish in a tiny little pond by dropping him. My question is: 1) When you go for a group ride and you have to wait on someone does it annoy the group participants? I was pounding the entire time, I was not taking it easy! IMO, if people are annoyed they shouldn't wait. If they do wait and are annoyed, that's their problem. Obviously, this should be set forth up front. When we go on group rides up here our long climbs spread everyone out and it becomes very obvious who can hang with which group. So at the top of each climb we wait for those that can hang with our group and no it's not annoying one bit. 2) Should I come back or would they tell me to get beat? 3) Should I just go back to the B's and have a nice leisurely spin? I'd ask them if you are welcome even if you may not be able to handle the rotation. If so I'd tell them not to wait if you get dropped. Approach them with compliments like you want to challenge yourself and improve your riding to someday be as good as they are. Then, I'd ride with them, try to hang as long as possible, and then finish in no man's land. IMO, this will make you improve far quicker than doing leisurely spins. |
| 2009-07-17 10:09 AM in reply to: #2288767 |
Master 1702 Southern Ontario | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question I think it really depends on the group. Fortunately the group I ride with has several different rides. So I can ride an easier paced ride for newer group riders on Wednesdays (~33k/hr) or I can try to keep up on faster rides. I'm not brave enough to try to ride the "Espresso" rides yet (40+km/hr) but I've been invited to do so on several occasions. They've made it clear that even if I hang at the back until I get faster they don't mind. However, I feel bad when I get dropped and they have to wait. Taking the route map would avoid this problem. I don't mind getting dropped - I feel bad when it affects others. Riding at a faster pace where you have to push yourself is a good thing. I also, however, like to pull at the front of the group - so you are at an advantage of being able to choose which ride you feel like on a given day. |
| 2009-07-17 12:44 PM in reply to: #2288767 |
| 128 | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question I think I have to go back. If I don't not only will I miss that awesome workout but I will prove that they won. (Which they did, but I can't give up, can I?) I think I will go with the B group on longer rides and pull- go on the A group and hang on for dear life. |
| 2009-07-17 12:59 PM in reply to: #2292075 |
Member 167 Peachtree City, GA | Subject: RE: Last night's group ride and question joshboots - 2009-07-17 1:44 PM I think I have to go back. If I don't not only will I miss that awesome workout but I will prove that they won. (Which they did, but I can't give up, can I?) I think I will go with the B group on longer rides and pull- go on the A group and hang on for dear life. That's what I do. My shop's "A" group is just a little too fast but the "B" is just too slow to be a workout for me. I know most of the "A" riders so I just let them know I'm hanging on to the last wheel (and make sure that the group leaders are okay with it). I'm very conscious to make space for the guy falling off the front to get into rotation in front of me. I also have to work a little harder as I fall out of the draft when doing this which eventually will help me improve closer to their levels. Sure, there are some jerks out there who may think poorly of me for not pulling but everyone's got to start somewhere and I'm sure to follow appropriate ettiquette and not mess up the ride for the others. If I get dropped, I solo the ride or get swept up by the "B" group at some point so all is well. |
|
|
|
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK