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 2009-08-14 1:31 PM |
Regular 197   Tempe, AZ |  Subject: zipp wheelsaside from fit, how much faster can those zipp wheels make you? 1-2 mph faster? 3-4? my LBS rents them out...75 bucks for 4 days which is cool and i want to try them out before my olympic relay in september. are they worth a try? |
| 2009-08-14 1:40 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Pro 4054 yep, | Subject: RE: zipp wheels amills1210 - 2009-08-14 2:31 PM aside from fit, how much faster can those zipp wheels make you? 1-2 mph faster? 3-4? my LBS rents them out...75 bucks for 4 days which is cool and i want to try them out before my olympic relay in september. are they worth a try?
On a typical 70.3 course they will gain you abotu 3-4 minutes. Not sure what that equates to in MPH. |
| 2009-08-14 1:44 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: zipp wheels How much faster than what? If you're asking how much faster than stock spoked wheels the answer is one thing. If you're asking how much faster than wheels with similar aerodynamic properties, the answer is (a much smaller) somehting else. Zipp is just a brand, overpriced given the marginal benefit, IMHO. |
| 2009-08-14 1:45 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: zipp wheels amills1210 - 2009-08-14 2:31 PM aside from fit, how much faster can those zipp wheels make you? 1-2 mph faster? 3-4? my LBS rents them out...75 bucks for 4 days which is cool and i want to try them out before my olympic relay in september. are they worth a try? Zipp quotes 90 seconds or so for a 40K TT/olympic bike leg, which comes out to about 0.6mph. In my experience the fancy wheels will get you an extra 0.5-1mph over my training wheelset. The placebo effect of racing on a pair of Zipps, though, might save you a little more time than that--I'm serious. Decking the bike out with the Sunday best is just motivating.  Edited by DrPete 2009-08-14 1:50 PM |
| 2009-08-14 1:51 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Veteran 237 Buffalo Grove | Subject: RE: zipp wheels There are a few questions to ask firt. What ZIPP wheels are you looking at? 404, 606 (808 rear and 404 front), 808, Disc Rear... So once you answer we can move on to the benefits of the wheels. They will result in a time savings / speed increase but that is not the only benefit. It will take you less energy to cut through the wind using aero wheels over non-aeor wheels. This will result in an energy saving to you. You can us thsi energy to increase your bike effort or use it on the run. Is it noticable? I am not sure and I am a loyal ZIPP rider. I have a full set of 404's, I have an 808 back, a 1080 front and a Disc rear. I also ride on ZIPP Cranks. Am I a faster rider now then I was when I started? Yes I am. Is that based on my bike, the wheels or the engine (me). Probably all three. I would say this, rent the wheels, try them out. If you like them ... buy them. If not, dont. I will say this, I let someone use my 404 front at a race reccently and they noticed the difference over their flashpoint front (flashponint are ZIPPs without the dimples). My next purchase.... a 1080 rear and ZIPP bars... |
| 2009-08-14 1:51 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Veteran 297 horseheads | Subject: RE: zipp wheels i have a set of 808's and they cost me ~$2300 brand new...... that equates to about 30 races you could rent them for before you break into the cost of ownership. i say screw buying them and rent them. as for how much faster they make you...... it depends on what wheels you are coming off from and what model you are goin into. there is no way to really measure as there is deffinitely a mental factor involved. |
| 2009-08-14 1:58 PM in reply to: #2349161 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: zipp wheels twinracer - 2009-08-14 2:51 PM i have a set of 808's and they cost me ~$2300 brand new...... that equates to about 30 races you could rent them for before you break into the cost of ownership. i say screw buying them and rent them. as for how much faster they make you...... it depends on what wheels you are coming off from and what model you are goin into. there is no way to really measure as there is deffinitely a mental factor involved. Looking at power data and riding in fairly consistent weather conditions, they really are objectively faster by 0.5-1mph. The power meter kinda helps control for the extra power generated by the sheer coolness of the wheels. |
| 2009-08-14 2:03 PM in reply to: #2349181 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: zipp wheels DrPete - 2009-08-14 1:58 PM twinracer - 2009-08-14 2:51 PM i have a set of 808's and they cost me ~$2300 brand new...... that equates to about 30 races you could rent them for before you break into the cost of ownership. i say screw buying them and rent them. as for how much faster they make you...... it depends on what wheels you are coming off from and what model you are goin into. there is no way to really measure as there is deffinitely a mental factor involved. Looking at power data and riding in fairly consistent weather conditions, they really are objectively faster by 0.5-1mph. The power meter kinda helps control for the extra power generated by the sheer coolness of the wheels. Over stock training wheels, maybe so. How do they compare withm say, a HED3 front and a $100 disc cover on the back, total cost one-third that of the Zipps? |
| 2009-08-14 2:06 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: zipp wheels One other thing to consider is that the extra speed they give you is dependent on how fast you are going. The faster you are traveling the more benefit they give you. So it's hard to pin down a specific number. In my experience about 1 mph is a pretty good estimate assuming you are already able to average faster then around 18 mph. |
| 2009-08-14 2:11 PM in reply to: #2349191 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: zipp wheels the bear - 2009-08-14 12:03 PM DrPete - 2009-08-14 1:58 PM twinracer - 2009-08-14 2:51 PM i have a set of 808's and they cost me ~$2300 brand new...... that equates to about 30 races you could rent them for before you break into the cost of ownership. i say screw buying them and rent them. as for how much faster they make you...... it depends on what wheels you are coming off from and what model you are goin into. there is no way to really measure as there is deffinitely a mental factor involved. Looking at power data and riding in fairly consistent weather conditions, they really are objectively faster by 0.5-1mph. The power meter kinda helps control for the extra power generated by the sheer coolness of the wheels. Over stock training wheels, maybe so. How do they compare withm say, a HED3 front and a $100 disc cover on the back, total cost one-third that of the Zipps? The difference is a LOT less then zipp would like to admit I would think. Zipps are incredibly nice wheels but if you are looking at only speed you can get 95% the benefits for 1/3 the cost. |
| 2009-08-14 2:13 PM in reply to: #2349191 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: zipp wheels the bear - 2009-08-14 3:03 PM DrPete - 2009-08-14 1:58 PM twinracer - 2009-08-14 2:51 PM i have a set of 808's and they cost me ~$2300 brand new...... that equates to about 30 races you could rent them for before you break into the cost of ownership. i say screw buying them and rent them. as for how much faster they make you...... it depends on what wheels you are coming off from and what model you are goin into. there is no way to really measure as there is deffinitely a mental factor involved. Looking at power data and riding in fairly consistent weather conditions, they really are objectively faster by 0.5-1mph. The power meter kinda helps control for the extra power generated by the sheer coolness of the wheels. Over stock training wheels, maybe so. How do they compare withm say, a HED3 front and a $100 disc cover on the back, total cost one-third that of the Zipps? I don't know. Send me a HED3 and a disc cover and I'll let you know. |
| 2009-08-14 2:17 PM in reply to: #2349214 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: zipp wheels Global - 2009-08-14 2:11 PM The difference is a LOT less then zipp would like to admit I would think. Zipps are incredibly nice wheels but if you are looking at only speed you can get 95% the benefits for 1/3 the cost. My point exactly, except that 95% might be little low.
DrPete - 2009-08-14 2:13 PM I don't know. Send me a HED3 and a disc cover and I'll let you know. Sure. Send me your zipps in exchange, we'll call it even, and compare data at the end of next season. Edited by the bear 2009-08-14 2:19 PM |
| 2009-08-14 2:20 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Champion 5498 Whizzzzzlandia Silver member | Subject: RE: zipp wheels Save yourself some money and buy yourself FLASHPOINTS. They are owned by Zipp and they use the old Zipp molds and Japanese bearings, I think. http://www.flash-pointracing.com/ I have the 60's. Cost me $1200 including tires and tubes. You can buy a wheel cover for the back and run a wheel cover (essentially a disk) and the 60 in the front and you've got a pretty decent ((budget)) set up.  |
| 2009-08-14 2:22 PM in reply to: #2349214 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: zipp wheels Global - 2009-08-14 3:11 PM the bear - 2009-08-14 12:03 PM DrPete - 2009-08-14 1:58 PM twinracer - 2009-08-14 2:51 PM i have a set of 808's and they cost me ~$2300 brand new...... that equates to about 30 races you could rent them for before you break into the cost of ownership. i say screw buying them and rent them. as for how much faster they make you...... it depends on what wheels you are coming off from and what model you are goin into. there is no way to really measure as there is deffinitely a mental factor involved. Looking at power data and riding in fairly consistent weather conditions, they really are objectively faster by 0.5-1mph. The power meter kinda helps control for the extra power generated by the sheer coolness of the wheels. Over stock training wheels, maybe so. How do they compare withm say, a HED3 front and a $100 disc cover on the back, total cost one-third that of the Zipps? The difference is a LOT less then zipp would like to admit I would think. Zipps are incredibly nice wheels but if you are looking at only speed you can get 95% the benefits for 1/3 the cost. This is probably true, and in fact Zipp kind of admits this--they're not interested in making "bang for the buck" or "fastest per dollar" wheels--they make the fastest wheels and really make no apologies about being really expensive. I'm sure you could end up within a few seconds of Zipps with some cheaper options out there, to be sure. Personally, if I have the cash I'll buy the Zipps, because I think they're a great company and they put an insane amount of passion into everything they manufacture. You can definitely buy the knock-offs for cheap, but the guys/gals at Zipp are worth supporting if you can afford the stuff. Just my opinion. Someone has to be doing the innovating for the stuff to trickle down a few years later after all. Edited by DrPete 2009-08-14 2:27 PM |
| 2009-08-14 2:25 PM in reply to: #2349242 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: zipp wheels Whizzzzz - 2009-08-14 3:20 PM Save yourself some money and buy yourself FLASHPOINTS. They are owned by Zipp and they use the old Zipp molds and Japanese bearings, I think. http://www.flash-pointracing.com/ I have the 60's. Cost me $1200 including tires and tubes. You can buy a wheel cover for the back and run a wheel cover (essentially a disk) and the 60 in the front and you've got a pretty decent ((budget)) set up. Flash Points are a great example--Zipp technology from a few years back, slightly cheaper parts, a little extra weight, but still a good quality pair of aero wheels to be had for (relatively) cheap. |
| 2009-08-14 2:34 PM in reply to: #2349249 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: zipp wheels DrPete - 2009-08-14 2:22 PM Someone has to be doing the innovating for the stuff to trickle down a few years later after all. Yeah, but I don't want to be the one paying for it. That's where you "more money than sense" guys come in.  About the passion, and the great company, and the customer service, yada yada: I've heard similar things about HED and some other wheel maufacturers, and certainly about wheelbuilder.com, which sells a ton of disc covers. So that alone isn't going to make me spend 300% for marginally better performance. |
| 2009-08-14 2:37 PM in reply to: #2349265 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: zipp wheels DrPete - 2009-08-14 12:25 PM Whizzzzz - 2009-08-14 3:20 PM Save yourself some money and buy yourself FLASHPOINTS. They are owned by Zipp and they use the old Zipp molds and Japanese bearings, I think. http://www.flash-pointracing.com/ I have the 60's. Cost me $1200 including tires and tubes. You can buy a wheel cover for the back and run a wheel cover (essentially a disk) and the 60 in the front and you've got a pretty decent ((budget)) set up. Flash Points are a great example--Zipp technology from a few years back, slightly cheaper parts, a little extra weight, but still a good quality pair of aero wheels to be had for (relatively) cheap. The used market is another great place to find a deal . People generally don't ride their areo wheels every day so you can often pick up a heavily discounted, almost new wheel set for a really good price. I got a set of Zipp 606's for $1050 that had been used for 1 race. |
| 2009-08-14 2:42 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
| Veteran 268 Boulder | Subject: RE: zipp wheels Again, it's a question of how much faster are they, than compared to what? Zipp publishes a comparison www.spinlitecycling.com/ZippAeroEdgeFlyer.pdf, but that is "Savings at 300 watts at 10* yaw with Fabian Cancellara pedaling at 30 mph. Basically, you won't be traveling at 30 mph - so your TIME SAVINGS will be greater, but your WATTAGE savings will be less. This is a comparison to Kysrium. |
| 2009-08-14 2:43 PM in reply to: #2349292 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: zipp wheels the bear - 2009-08-14 3:34 PM DrPete - 2009-08-14 2:22 PM Someone has to be doing the innovating for the stuff to trickle down a few years later after all. Yeah, but I don't want to be the one paying for it. That's where you "more money than sense" guys come in. Hey, it's more sane in my mind than the dudes who spend THOUSANDS of dollars on cables for their stereo system. I look at bike schwag the same way I look at wine-- there's very little of it that's truly horrible, and there's a price point beyond which the quality doesn't go up nearly as fast as the price, but damn that Chateau Latour 1961 is good stuff. |
| 2009-08-14 2:44 PM in reply to: #2349199 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: zipp wheels this is actually not true. someone traveling slower will actually gain more time through the wheels vs someone going much faster. the diff you get going faster my help you more as at that point smaller changes make up placings more, but the slower person will ALWAYS gain more time from this. |
| 2009-08-14 2:58 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: zipp wheels I have Zipp 404s with power tap hub so I can compare same race different years with my training wheels with power tap and with Zipps with power. I have had interesting results..I'm not always faster on Zipps even with same power output than my training wheels. I have had races that my power is higher on my Zipps but I'm slower than the previous year with my training wheels at same race. Weather and other factors can make a difference plus all power meters are not calibrated exactly the same. Of all the stuff I've bought I think Zipps are the one purchase I not 100% happy with..not sure worth the money. Sure they look and sound cool but lots of money. |
| 2009-08-14 2:59 PM in reply to: #2349329 |
Master 1641 Seattle, California | Subject: RE: zipp wheels newbz - 2009-08-14 12:44 PM this is actually not true. someone traveling slower will actually gain more time through the wheels vs someone going much faster. the diff you get going faster my help you more as at that point smaller changes make up placings more, but the slower person will ALWAYS gain more time from this. You save more time going slower because you are out on the course longer. When you are going fast you are out on the couse for a shorter amount of time therefore the time saving will be less overall but the % time saved will be greater. The power savings (watts) increases as you get faster. |
| 2009-08-14 3:04 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Veteran 237 Buffalo Grove | Subject: RE: zipp wheels There are some people out there that just do not like Zipp. Either they can not afford it or what every.
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| 2009-08-14 3:16 PM in reply to: #2349092 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: zipp wheels It comes down to the fact that really, all the aero stuff is ridiculously expensive for a very small benefit. I will NEVER earn enough prize money to make back what I spend buying cool aero stuff for my bike. But hey, that's what hobbies are for--spending insane amounts of time and money on things that make very little sense to anyone but you and your fellow addicts. |
| 2009-08-14 3:27 PM in reply to: #2349393 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: zipp wheels gshtrisport - 2009-08-14 3:04 PM There are also people out there (I have come to notice a few on this board) that just argue with what ever you have to say. This is a discussion forum. The way it works, is that a question is asked, or an opinion is offered, and then it is discussed. If you present an opinion that is unsupported, or supported just by anecdotal evidence, you may get people to call you on it, or ask you for more information, or present a differing opinion. Usually this takes place in a relatively civil and non-confronting manner. But, get used to it, and don't take it personally. And welcome to BT! Edited by the bear 2009-08-14 3:29 PM |
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