Explain this to me please???

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2009-08-25 10:44 PM

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Subject: Explain this to me please???

This morning at my swim, my goal was to swim a mile in 34 minutes, which is good for me. I swam strong and I felt like I was on pace to meet my goal. I felt like I was kicking it up a notch from my normal swims and I expected to meet my goal. I was really disappointed to see my mile swim come in at 35:50.

This evening I went on a 3.5 mile run because I wanted to get some miles in. So I took off running and wanted to maintain a nice steady pace of around 8:30-9 miutes miles. Now I usually know how long it takes me to reach certain points on my run and when I checked my watch, I was 2 minutes ahead of normal, so of course I tried to maintain that pace. So long story short, my run that was suppose to be an easy 3.5 miles, ended up being a 7:55 mile average.

So, on one hand I try and meet a time goal and feel, and on the other I am not trying to meet any time goal and end up running alot faster than I thought?

Makes me think that in my races I should just try to have a nice easy race and see what happens!

Signed,

Confused in Memphis

2009-08-26 7:34 AM
in reply to: #2370851

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2009-08-26 7:59 AM
in reply to: #2370851

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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???
It's possible that when you try to "kick it up a notch" on the swim, you actually lose enough form that you are going slower despite working harder. That is what used to happen to me... When you attempt to go faster on the swim, you need to make certain that you are not falling into bad form/habits which will slow you down.

As for the run... you rock!

Edited by lodewey 2009-08-26 8:00 AM
2009-08-26 8:01 AM
in reply to: #2370851

Veteran
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Buffalo Grove
Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???
I think that you question opens up a few new questions.  How much have you been swimming lately?  Have you been doing a lot of upper body strength work?  Have you taken a few days off from running? 

A lot of things go into this. 

Probably just well rested for the run and maybe either tired or bad form on the swim.  A good effort swim with bad form will be slower than a medium effort swim with good form. 
2009-08-26 8:05 AM
in reply to: #2370851

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???
Maybe your watch is broken?
2009-08-26 8:10 AM
in reply to: #2370851

Regular
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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???
I went into my Oly tri at the beginning of August thinking (for the first time ever on race day) that I was going to go out there and have a good time, and whatever time I finish in is okay.  I didn't strap the watch on the wrist, I didn't time myself out of the water, I didn't time my run splits, etc.  Turns out I PR'd the race by quite a few minutes and had a nice 45 min. 10K down from 48 from my race in June.  Don't ask me if it's because I was really relaxed and was just going on the feel of my body instead of pressuring myself for specific time splits, or if all that training finally paid off.  I don't think I will ever know for sure, but something to think about.

2009-08-26 8:11 AM
in reply to: #2370851

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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???
your pool time is right in line or slightly faster than your race times.

also, sometimes getting fitter results in similar times, but feeling better or it takes less energy.

the run, it could be any number of factors.  temperature, overal health, state of fatigue and your overall attitude.  I now for me, 10 degress in temperature can result in 20-30 seconds per mile sometimes

some days are like that.

I had some 100 repeats in the pool that I usually hit every single time today.  I missed over 50% of them by a lot. 

some days things happen, and there are several factors that contribute to it.  Mostly it is fatigue and where you are at in your training.  dont let one day dictate too much.  if it becomes a pattern dig a little deeper and figure out why the times are off your expectations.
2009-08-26 8:17 AM
in reply to: #2371154

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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???

Some days that's just how the world works.  This is a good example of why I just "go with the flow".  Obsessing about a certain pace can cause you to miss out on great opportunities - or - can make you feel bad when you don't hit it.  Who needs that? 

2009-08-26 9:08 AM
in reply to: #2371067

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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???

wgraves7582 - 2009-08-26 7:34 AM

And I have seen this around: Slow=Smooth & Smooth=Fast

 

I think I am finally seeing what people mean when they say sometimes to go fast you have to slow down...

2009-08-26 9:23 AM
in reply to: #2371330

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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???

jford2309 - 2009-08-26 9:08 AM

wgraves7582 - 2009-08-26 7:34 AM

And I have seen this around: Slow=Smooth & Smooth=Fast

 

I think I am finally seeing what people mean when they say sometimes to go fast you have to slow down...

yep, see my sig line.

And it is true.  I've only been swimming for about 2.5 years, but in that time I've experimented enough to figure out that when I try to push it too hard, I lose form, and then lose seconds.  Over a short distance it isn't that much.  Over the long haul they add up.

I KNOW there was an article, I think in either NYTimes or MSNBC or something like that, from a while ago (I've got to find that article), possibly even last year.  Talking about Cullen Jones and his racing at the Oly Trials in NE last year.  On one race, that he analyzed by video after wards, he realized he was too quick with his stroke (essentially) and because of that sloppiness it cost him time.  By focusing on being more efficient, smoother in his stroke, hand entry, etc, he would become faster.

I've done the same.  I first "discovered" this on a 400m warm up one day late, last year.  I went out, didn't try particularly hard, did a great reach with each stroke, good solid pull under water,  everything you are "supposed" to do.  I finished it, and to my surprise I was done in 6:55.  And I wasn't winded.  I was shocked, to say the least.  Previously I had only been doing that distance in warm up at 7:35-7:40.  Now I consistantly do my warm ups at a 1:45-1:47/100m pace. 

So it happens.  Usually when you least expect it. 

ETA: I found the article.  And an interesting quote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/sports/olympics/13freestyle.html

“I was rotating my arms too fast,” Jones said. Or in layman’s terms, he said, “I panicked.”



Edited by crowny2 2009-08-26 9:30 AM
2009-08-26 10:09 AM
in reply to: #2370851

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Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???
jford2309 - 2009-08-25 8:44 PM

This morning at my swim, my goal was to swim a mile in 34 minutes, which is good for me. I swam strong and I felt like I was on pace to meet my goal. I felt like I was kicking it up a notch from my normal swims and I expected to meet my goal. I was really disappointed to see my mile swim come in at 35:50.

This evening I went on a 3.5 mile run because I wanted to get some miles in. So I took off running and wanted to maintain a nice steady pace of around 8:30-9 miutes miles. Now I usually know how long it takes me to reach certain points on my run and when I checked my watch, I was 2 minutes ahead of normal, so of course I tried to maintain that pace. So long story short, my run that was suppose to be an easy 3.5 miles, ended up being a 7:55 mile average.

So, on one hand I try and meet a time goal and feel, and on the other I am not trying to meet any time goal and end up running alot faster than I thought?

Makes me think that in my races I should just try to have a nice easy race and see what happens!

Signed,

Confused in Memphis



Amazing thing, that body, isn't it?

Things are much much smoother and easier when you don't have to "think" about the motions. It's one of the reasons that experienced swimmers have an easier time of it, they aren't constantly thinking "ok, roll, pull straight, oops gotta breath, is my kick ok", etc etc. Same thing with running and cycling, if you can kind of detach your thinking process from your exercise, and let your body determine its own pace, you'd be surprised what it can do.

My best race ever was a New Years Eve 4 mile midnight run up in Denver. It was about 2, 3 weeks after x-country season. I didn't take a watch because they would have mile splits. Well, the splits people didn't show (go figure), so no watch, nothing, just me running. My 5k pr at the time was 17:50ish, and I crossed the finish line at 20:59 (16:17 5k split). All I did was just run and not think about anything.

John

2009-08-26 11:28 AM
in reply to: #2370851

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Rochester, MN
Subject: RE: Explain this to me please???

Maybe you miscounted your laps and swam over a mile?  I have a Garmin for my runs and rides so I am pretty sure about those distances.  But in the pool it's a little different.  We all get messed up sometimes on our lap counting, especially at longer distances. 

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