Total Immersion?

natethomas2000 - 2010-04-29 5:48 AM

I think it's a good place to start, but it does have some limitations.

I've only been swimming since January and my 100 splits have gone from a little over 2:00 to between 1:40 and 1:45 by using the TI video and attending a short TI workshop.

However, I think I'm now at the point where I need to go beyond TI. I need to use other techniques rather than long strokes.

nc452010 - 2010-04-29 7:48 AM

Guys....I'm struggling with my swimming right now.  But, I thought I'd ask this....

If the guy who started TI holds masters records for endurance swimming (obviously utilizing his own technique), how can that technique be scrutinized?  Is it not a proven "winner"?

100% sincere Q.

nc452010 - 2010-04-29 8:48 AM

Guys....I'm struggling with my swimming right now.  But, I thought I'd ask this....

If the guy who started TI holds masters records for endurance swimming (obviously utilizing his own technique), how can that technique be scrutinized?  Is it not a proven "winner"?

100% sincere Q.

docswim24 - 2010-04-29 6:19 AM

OK - here it goes. I am sure some people will disagree but this is what I have found from my experience swimming, giving swim lessons and coaching over the years.

I think TI does a good job of getting people comfortable in the water and gives them some good fundamental swimming skills - balance, steamlining, etc.

The TI swimmers I have met, coached, gave a swim lesson to, talked with, etc all have had the same misconceptions about how to become a fast swimmer. I am not saying TI teaches this, but am saying that those TI swimmers I have worked with in the water (15ish or so people) believe all or some of the following which are not always true:

1) Head position - must be staring at the bottom of the pool. While this works for some people it does not for everyone and not everyone should be doing this. Think of head position like cadence. There are some basic parameters most people should be in (dont be looking behind you, dont be doing the tarzan swim) but people seem to naturally select their head position over time. The TI swimmers I have worked with tend to bury their heads.

2) Form and technique work at the expense of swimming hard. My single biggest issue. To become a better swimmer, you need to work hard at swimming and the TI swimmers I have worked with or seen do 90% form work and 10% actual swimming. A beginner swimmer needs some form work but not this much. A MOP of the pack swimmer should be swimming hard a lot. To become a better swimmer, you need to really push yourself in the water. I can't emphasize this enough.

3) Long streamlined position and slow turnover vs. racing. As I mentioned before I think TI does a good job of teaching body position and streamlining but the TI students I have seen take it overboard to the point that the majority of them have too slow of a turnover and too much glide. Go watch a triathlon. Look at the the top 5% of the swimmers. You will see arms flying, fast turnover, hard kicking, aggressive swimming. I have yet to see anyone at the FOP that looks like they follow the principles of TI.

In fact I have yet to meet FOP swimmer who trains by the TI principles, where I have met, swam with and seen plenty of people with no swimming background get a few lessons or join a masters team and through hard work become FOP swimmers.

From what I have seen TI does a good job getting new swimmers to finish a tri or be comfortable in the water or be able to swim a long time at a comfortable pace. None of these things are easy to do and TI does a good job at this. I think TI's limitation is taking a 1:45/100 swimmer and getting them to a 1:20/100 swimmer. Something a few individual lessons and hard work over time can do.

brucemorgan - 2010-04-29 8:38 AM



I learned how to swim on my own, switched to TI training for my first IM, and have been trying to unlearn TI ever since to go faster.

Like most things, TI is a great fit for some people and a poor fit for others. YMMV.

AdventureBear - 2010-04-29 8:14 AM So you've been trying to increase your drag and become unbalanced in the water? For those who say there are limitations on TI, I'll state it this way...there are limitations on self-teaching no matter how good the video or technique is. TI is a method of teaching streamline and balance, and any movement of the exended arm in the water that doesn't contribute to foreward propulsion is eliminated. The TI books/videos on triathlon swimming and out of the box discuss pacing and training to get faster without breaking down form. In a TI weekend workshop, there's not time to teach people who havn't had time to integrate the basic concepts how to get faster. These stroke refinements are hard to pass along in a group session where ability ranges widely. But there's no secret to doing so, except that you need to make sure that as you are increasing your tempo you maintain essential streamlining and balance in the water as well as your sense of ease in stroking. The TI method of instruction teaches you to be balanced at all points of the stroke moving from a left streamline position to a right streamline position by "falling" into gravity's pull as your recovering arm is ready to enter the water. That doesn't change as you get faster, but frequently As soon as people simply try to swim "hard intervals" they start to kick and pull harder which nearly always breaks down their timing and form. Here's one of the nicest TI videos I've seen of Terry swimming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC8ZZZhabp4&playnext_from=TL&... And if you want to hear his philosophy on swimming listen to this 6 part youtube talk he gave at the multisport expo last year. the total talk is about 45 minutes long broken into 6 videos and is both entertaining and eye opening. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97b6XIntfcc&playnext_from=TL&...

oldntrin - 2010-04-29 9:17 AM

I'll add the disclosure:

AB is a certified TI coach (www.totalimmersion.net/find-a-coach -- Pennsylvania)

AdventureBear - 2010-04-29 11:14 AM


But there's no secret to getting faster, except that you need to make sure that as you are increasing your tempo you maintain essential streamlining and balance in the water as well as your sense of ease in stroking. The TI method of instruction teaches you to be balanced at all points of the stroke moving from a left streamline position to a right streamline position by "falling" into gravity's pull as your recovering arm is ready to enter the water. That doesn't change as you get faster, but frequently As soon as people simply try to swim "hard intervals" they start to kick and pull harder which nearly always breaks down their timing and form.