Why Macbook/Macbook Pro?

You're paying for the apple logo. That's it. It is not 3 times better and I would say it's not even equivalent, but then I am an apple hater and don't like most of their products, so take it for 1 persons very biased opinion.

If i were to do it again now, i'd prob not pay for one.


That said, when i got mine, they were better display wise, and all of the sortware we had for school for editing was mac only, so i went with it.

I also needed a fairly durable computer as i do a lot of shooting with it in the field, and i've never seen a dell (or the older ones) stand up well/last all that long.
I've actually got hte powerbook pro, not the macbook so its OLD, but its still chugging long well.

But again, if i were to do it today, i'd go PC in a heartbeat.

Well I'll have to disagree with Josh a bit here. The $700 dell 17" laptop is no where close to the MBP 17". Slower processor, worse system board, slower ram, worse video card and very very different display. Now, will they both work, absolutely! Should every buy the MBP 17" over the Dell? Most definably not.

Let me use a car analogy.

Apple is like BMW or Mercedes. You might go shopping and say, hmm, I can buy a Hyundai car for 10k. Why can't I buy a BMW for 10k? They are both cars, have door, tires, an engine and drive from point A to point B. Now we know, that there are some differences between the BMW and the Hyundai, and to compare them directly isn't very honest. That said, the Hyundai will get you from point A to B just fine if you don't want/need all the extras.

Yes, you do pay a small premium for the Apple logo, but mostly Apple just doesn't sell a bargin, cheap computer. What you do get for your small premium is better support, better build quality and features, and most importantly a much better OS. OS X is great. I really like Windows 7, but still prefer OS X. No viruses, no spyware. It's a beautiful thing!

And I would say a more comparable laptop to the MBP 17" would be the Alienware M17x. After upgrading the OS to semi-eqivalant (Pro) and bringing it to a similar screen, you're running 1700+. Yet, you are now getting a laptop that weighs 10+ lbs.

It's all give and take.

Had 3 Dells for an equivalent time that I've had my Macbook Pro.  I've had not a single problem with my Mac.  Tons of problems with my Dells.

I don't hate Dell or Microsoft or anybody.  I'm just going to use what works better for me.

But what extras are you getting for the 300% premium? Slower processor, worse system board, slower ram, worse video card and very very different display mean nothing to me if what I have is perfectly functional. Where would an average computer user notice these things?

I guess it's  a lot easier to see with a car. To me the extras I get with a Toyota are worth the 50% more I pay over a Hundai. However, I don't see that the additional benefits of the BMW or Merceds are worth enough to pay two or three times the cost of a Toyota, even though I can easily afford either.

Knock on wood, but I have had few if any problems with my Dells. That's why I'm having trouble understanding why it's worth the price.

Probably not worth it for you then. 

I have been intrigued as well as I love my iPhone and iPad but am a PC user. One barrier to me would be rebuying all the software I already have like Adobe Lightroom and Pinnacle studios. People love the Mac, and I love my apple products but the initial price and the non-interchangeable software licenses scAre me away.

Edited by Out2BeALoser 2011-01-30 10:07 AM

I'm pretty sure the lightroom license works both ways. Photoshop doesn't.

While you're certainly paying some price premium for the brand (surprise! that applies to any major manufacturer), what you get is stability, security and ease of use. The main reason that I bought my MBP was because I was tired of having issues with power adapters and the power connection on the laptop. Mac uses a magnetic attachment so if you accidentally trip over your cord, it pulls out and does not damage the computer. I went through at least 2 laptops a year and I would always have that problem. Maybe I'm a klutz.

You also get amazing customer service. After a year and a half my battery started doing this weird bulge thing. No big deal, I've had a battery last for a year and a half of heavy use, I'll go buy a new one. I brought the old one in and the guy said, "No, that shouldn't happen" and pulled a new battery off the shelf and gave it to me gratis. They've also given me free peripherals (mouse, wireless keyboard) simply because I was buying something else and asked. Yes, really. Free. Just ask!

As someone who used to build computers for a living, it took me a while to drink the Kool-Aid. Apple builds solid products on a very stable framework and operating system. If you've had a good run with Dell, stay with that. I'd say that you won't realize how great a Mac is until you own one. It's hard to quantify, but I'd bet most people that were skeptical going in would say that they were blown away by the ease of use, streamlining, etc.

Aside: I've read some reviews that are saying the new MB Air's are actually outperforming new MBP's, even with lower specs. I would definitely take a look at them (the 13 in. models anyway).

That is why I chose to get a Dell with Windows 7 instead of a MacBook, and get a Honda instead of a BMW.  
I could afford the the more expensive options (though the BMW would be stretching), but don't see the NEED of them.  Dell and Honda are good enough to handle my usage.  

So far I have no problem with my Dell laptop that I had for a year and a half.  

Edited by D.K. 2011-01-30 10:36 AM

When the computer that I used became so riddled with viruses, despite all the way cool anti-virus software on it, I called on of those Geek Squad places to come and try and clean it. 
Know what the guy said? Get a Mac. So I did.
I had an iMac for a couple of years and just traded it in for a Macbook.
Have loved both of them. Never ever had a single issue.
Now granted, I am woefully ignorant of computers generally speaking...........but I just like what I like! 

My younger son saved up his money for a Macbook. He is a bit of a creative genius and makes films. He adores it.  He will most likely be a Mac user forever.....

My older son wanted a PC. He is very happy with his computer as well. 

So to each his own I guess.

Oh........and I drive a Toyota!  
 

the bear - 2011-01-30 8:33 AM


But what extras are you getting for the 300% premium?

Slower processor, 4 banger vs Turbo charged V8
worse system board, Better frame and chassie
slower ram, Fuel injection vs Carb system
worse video card and very very different display Premium paint and leather vs cloth and spray paint


mean nothing to me if what I have is perfectly functional. Where would an average computer user notice these things?

I guess it's  a lot easier to see with a car. To me the extras I get with a Toyota are worth the 50% more I pay over a Hundai. However, I don't see that the additional benefits of the BMW or Merceds are worth enough to pay two or three times the cost of a Toyota, even though I can easily afford either.


Again, I'm just saying there is something very different between a $700 Dell and a $2000 Mac, and it's not just the logo. Just like a $50,000 BMW and a $10,000 Hyundai are both cars, these are both laptops. Does everyone need a BMW or a Mac? Nope.

My Race Log

I like both. But I'm cheap, and I'm a computer guy so I get way more value out of PC stuff (cause I don't buy fluff I don't need)

But one thing has changed over the years and that's processor power and memory have far exceeded what most people use on a daily basis. Quad core, dual processors, to run Excel? Please. A lot of my friends and co-workers that ask for computers for home/their kids, I send them to my local recycler. Full desktop, P4, 1G ram, XP legal, etc for 80 bucks. Can last for years. Use a USB stick once a week to backup your documents, and then if it does die, buy another one.

Mac devices are pretty much built on standard stuff. Intel i5 or i7 processors. nVidia graphics cards. Seagate drives. Exactly the same devices can be had in a Dell. Not even the top end items - Apple requires that everything be tested with everything else, so while that gives them great QA it also keeps them a bit behind the cutting edge.

They do excel and making stuff easy to use/friendly - I mean things like cords and good quality hinges - things you don't think about but can drive you nuts later on.

But as to value? Look at the box the next time you buy something from Apple. That box is beautiful. The liner inside, which holds every piece perfectly, and the great color - you won't want to toss it in the trash. You're paying good money for that box. But it's pretty.

So the hardware is all the same. Granted the QA will be better on the Apple especially compared to your entry level/door crasher notebook deals at Best Buy. But spend a few bucks above the basic, and get something that matches what you need. Apple Care/support is nice but you pay for it. Dell and HP etc have similar services, which you can also pay for. I have next day support where Dell sends a tech over, and he replaces hardware on the spot. My Apples I have to take to the apple store and leave for a day+.

For the Operating System, Mac OS is basically linux with a custom window manager. You can get various versions of linux for free if you want, and run them on whatever you want. But again, Apple excells at user interfaces, so their "version" is quite good. Compared to XP or Vista, Mac OS is a step up. Of course XP is almost 10 years old. We just won't talk about Vista. That's why a lot of Mac people switched, and I don't blame em.

Windows 7 is very mac'ish. There is a dock at the bottom where you put your common/running programs. The snap feature is AWESOME (mac will have that soon enough I expect) - and the snipping tool for showing parts of your screen is sooo useful. Stability wise, I've had no win7 issues even with old crappy hardware.

Course, if you've got the cash, you can buy a nice mac, run a virtual machine and then have Windows 7 or XP running as well. It's seamless and works great if you have some old PC programs you need. Just expensive, you legally need to buy the Win7 or XP licence as well as your mac OS licence.

So the end result is if you want the best value for dollar, a good midrange laptop with good parts on sale is probably your best bet. Add extra money for backup disk/device, faster support if you need it, 150ish bucks for Office if you want and you're set. If you're going to play modern games, add another 200-300 bucks for a good gfx card and more ram.

If you have specific requirements and a dollar amount, you can always post here or on some other comp enthusiast boards to get some suggested models.

Just for full disclosure, I own a computer consulting business. I support Mac and PC. I personally own both. My high end desktop is a PC because it was much cheaper and has one of the best video cards on the market. Something I can't do on a Mac. It plays games well, has 3 screens and a ton of room to expand.

I think both Mac and PC have their place, and like I said, I really like Windows 7.

As any time-crunched triathlete will appreciate, time is my most scarce resource.

I use WinXP at work, and last year I bought 2 lenovo Thinkpad laptops w/ Windows 7 for home/family use when an old XP laptop died.

Those Windows 7 machines have caused me more hours of aggravation than I can count.  Setup in my home network was a major PITA.  Many hardware devices (scanners, MP3 players) and software (video editing, WordPerfect) I used on WinXP don't work on Windows 7 (HELLO, BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY???).   Win7 has more than once corrupted files during transfer from memory card to computer, resulting in hours of lost work.  

Stability?  Hah!  When I first got the Win7 laptops last year they would lock up CONSTANTLY (not as much now, did an update fix the problem?).  I still cannot get the 2 Win7 machines to share info via Homegroup, and I still am dissatisfied.   Every time I called (Lenovo) customer support , they said I had to contact Microsoft because it was an Operating System problem (yeah right, call Microsoft)

The user interface sucks.  Collapsing all folders together in the taskbar by default so you have to rummage through them?  What idiot thought of that one?  And simple things taken for granted in WinXP: Win7 no longer lets you look at folder size in Explorer.  Trying to troubleshoot through the control panel is impossible.  It's like Bill Gates said let's put all the details under the hood, but don't let them look under the hood.

So I've ordered a MacBook Air for travel (can access work computer using Remote Desktop): I expect it will be the first of many Macs I buy, at home and at work, especially since Mac OS can run Microsoft Office apps natively.

P.S.  Bear, if you've never experienced the blue screen of death, you must have angels watching over you :-)

Home networking hasn't changed - you can skip the homegroup thing and just do it exactly the same as XP with a share name. I have 2 desktops, 2 laptops and the PS3 all online and they all see each other. The PS3 detected the Win7 desktop as a media centre and streams all my videos, music, photos to my big screen TV and I had to do nothing except enable media sharing.

Win7 is the most backwards compatible system there is. Even win95 games and applications work. For the most part if you're having issues with old hardware, it's usually a 32 vs 64 bit thing. Even my old beater HP Laser 1012 works and HP says it doesn't.

Win7 explorer is the same as WinXP explorer, you can see folder size and all details - that's actually my #1 issue with Mac is it's so hard to get at the details. For Win7, view -> details then to make it default, organise -> Folder and Search options. Same screen as XP, click make all folders like default.

If you love the blue screen of death, wait for the spinning color wheel of death, or the bombs. There is no free lunch.



Edited by Khyron 2011-01-30 1:44 PM

Khyron,  I'm glad Win7 works for you, but otherwise I call BS. 32-64 bit issue is a pretty lame excuse, as the whole point of an OS is to abstract away the hardware layer (else, we might as well write everything in Intel assembly code).  It's a DRIVER issue, and Microsoft decided to screw hardware MFGs by making sure the older drivers wouldn't work.

Are you willing to be the BT Tech Support for Win7?

BTW, that Folder size fix you suggested doesn't work, probably because no such fix exists in Win7.

http://www.google.com/search?q=foldersize+in+Windows+7&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

Peace Out,

windandsurf

Honestly what I most enjoy about my Mac is not having that slow agonizing period to boot up.  Whenever I borrow somebody's PC I'm astounded they put up with that.

However, knowing you, I suspect that your good experiences with your Dells are due in part to luck and in part to meticulous "housekeeping" - cleaning up spyware, defragging, whatever else it is you need to do to keep it running nice.  If that works for you, then there's no reason not to stick with it.  For mere mortals like me, PC's just get reee ee eeeaa  aaallllyy   sss ss sssllllooowwww over time.

I do a lot of work on unix. Mac can pull an X display natively and winders I have to download software to do it, but that's a minor reason.

I chose mac this time (my first) because I've had awful luck with hardware quality in my price range for PCs. HP used to be good, but their consumer grade stuff seems to be awful lately, dell...same thing. Even alienware I don't trust anymore now that they are owned by Dell. Just seems like PC hardware is a crapshoot lately and I'm losing, so I went with a 13" macbook pro.  I really like it.

Ok I didn't know what folder size feature you were after - I have used treesize (free) for as long as I can remember. I had the same struggles finding how to turn that on for the Mac as well, same problem - tons of space consumed and not sure where.

And I have seen the compat hardware list for win7 - it's enormous. Even my win2000 momo steering wheel, my pre-2000 sidewinder force feedback joystick and my 1012 crap host based printer work. The only device I've found so far that's hopeless has been an ancient Astra SCSI scanner because the scsi card has no xp drivers. I replaced it for 80 bucks. If the manufact doesn't have a 64 bit driver, that's not MS's fault, and that's the most common issue with old hardware not working - and it was a problem on XP 64 as well. I do like how Mac handles it much better. Win 7 has a smaller memory footprint than XP and has far more hardware support than Vista and XP combined.

As for bootup, yah - especially if you're comparing to a solid state flash drive in the Mac Air or some of the Dell travel units. Some of the new Seagate drives have 500G of normal space, and 4G of flash space, so they are less than 100 bucks, but automatically put the most used files onto the flash. VERY quick, the 2nd time you use something. 
 
Here's my challenge for you in Mac OS - Map a read-only network drive to permanently be available, presuming the device is available. Not "connect to network" and enter the address, I mean a permanent mapping on the desktop that does not go away on reboot. (It IS doable but it took me and my group of monkeys way too long - and we had 2 mac guys with us).

Poor Bear.

I'm with you, Bear - form follows function at our house.

In somewhat of a response to some of the other posts in this thread; I have had a much easier time with home networking with Win 7 than I had with XP, and I don't use Homegroup (actually I tried it and couldn't get it to work, then realized the old fashioned method worked better than before so I stick with it), I haven't had any driver issues despite very dated hardware (like, 5+ years old and 10+ years old in some cases). That's a manufacturer issue, not Windows issue. Microsoft writes the OS, manufacturers write drivers. If the manufacturer for your hardware doesn't work on a new OS then blame them for not keeping up with technology. OSes are on about a two- to three-year release cycle, so it's not like they can't see it coming. Here's a head's up: Windows 8 is being developed right now. Shocking, I know!

I'm also with Bradword in that not all devices will work best for all people. My father-in-law is as much of a "fanboy" as you could be for Apple devices, and my wife and I even chipped in quite a bit of money to buy an iPad for him for his birthday last year. Since he does all the IT stuff for himself and his kids, then they are all Apple users too - and good for them! My wife uses PCs because that's what we use at our house and I'm the IT guy here. My sister-in-law is on her third Macbook in as many years, despite the free IT support from her dad. I'm also going to add to Brad's car analogy that you're not only paying more for the equipment, but also the maintenance. Guys working on BMWs make more than guys working on Hyundais, and the same applies to the "geniuses" and the "geeks" (though I wouldn't recommend anyone at Best Buy to help you with any electronics or computer issues).

Final opinion: go with the Dell.