Just finished my first HIM, horrible run time

Welcome to BT & congrats on your HIM finish.  Another HIM in 8 weeks is doable.  Although, depending how quickly you recover, it may be difficult to raise your fitness level very meaningfully before then.  The run is where most people realize any 'disappointment' in their performance because that is generally when you 'pay-back' the cumulative effects of any pacing/nutrition mistakes you made throughout the day.  Go a little too hard on the swim or bike and it's the run that will see the impact.  Also, an HIM is a long race and takes some time to build up enough endurance (generally and in each of the 3 sports) to complete the race without reaching a point that you really have to slow down.  Don't know what your background is or how long you've been doing triathlons, so that could play a role as well.

As to what to do before the next one (if you decide to do it), keep training.  Oddly, despite your struggles on the run, you are probably most likely to benefit by really focusing on the swim & bike.  The better shape you are in at T2, the more likely you will be able to have a successful run.  So, unless you are already a very stong swimmer or cyclist, I'd try that.  Do all your running at an easy (for you) pace.  But you may be better off looking for an HIM next year and focusing on some shorter races for the rest of this year.  That would give you some time to also do a period of more focused running, as well, before tackling the distance again.

X2 on this. I was in the same boat as the OP after my first HIM. I kept saying I was pleased with everything but my run. After reading many race reports I realized that it wasn't the run that was the problem, it was the swimming (a little) and the biking that was the problem. I learned a lot from that first one.

Agree with this.  So many times, people seem to talk about run troubles during HIM/IM in a vacuum and not make the connection to their bike and swim.

Which level of Fitzgeralds plan are you using? If you can go back to week 8 and pick up from there and feel comfortable doing the workouts that should work. And yes, bike pacing is very important (I learned that the hard way also!)

If your swimming is strong, then focus on riding more/harder.  I don't think you'll get much added benefit by pushing runs longer right now.  But run as frequently as possible.  All easy running.  When your legs feel good, ride harder.  Save faster/harder runs for after your tri season this time.  Swim only as frequently as you need to maintain fitness and form.

Use a couple of your long rides to go steady at your estimated race pace.  Take in nutrition/fluids the same way you plan on race day.  Do a short run off the bike (3-4mi) and see how you feel.  Adjust your race pace, if necessary.

I'm using his level 6 plan and in week #9 right now. Good luck with your training and keep hitting that bike as hard as you can. When the plan calls for interval riding make sure you are actually doing that and not just riding the time that is called for. I have done that religiously so far and I can see a real difference in my biking strength. The other thing he calls for is the hill repeats on the bike. I have found those to be tough but very beneficial.

Keep us informed with how you are doing. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk any more about the Fitz plans. I have used them several times and like them very much.

x whatever on the pacing/bike effort.  I know that's the pat answer, but in my case, it's always what gets me.

I feel fresh out of the water as if it's an Oly, and just tend to push too hard on the bike (oly pace).  It's only 56 miles, right?...  But then add a half mary on that and it kills me...  I would say that over my 4-5 HIM's, I still haven't gotten it right.

IM's are different.  I think they are SO long, I can't fool myself into thinking I can hammer through it and force myself to pace better.

I know you can't just "survive" a marathon, but I always focus on being strong on the bike for longer races.  Swimming is easy, so that's bottom on my list of priorities.  I will also give up a run before a bike.  I just know that even if bike pace itself is not my limiter (even though I can argue that it is), just being stronger off the bike is important to me and I can just muscle through the run.

I have also used the Fitz plans.  Pretty good.  A bit too repetitive for my taste, but if you follow them at the efforts perscribed, I think they get you in as good as shape as anything else.  I'm using one now.

I pretty much disagree with most of the posters in regard to bike pace.

My opinion is your bike is not strong enough to run the way you want. I personally feel you should not have to slow down one aspect to do another. You are either trained properly in both or not.  I personally am not, i am not trained properly for the run, i am for the bike, and i am fine with that.

What is your open HM pace??

What did you run in this race??

Since a person who cannot post here any longer actually posted on this exact subject in a race report i have just done i will quote Bryan Dunn here.

i will start with my quote

"So many cliche's about triathlon, one of my favorites is "there is no such thing as a good bike if a crap run follows it". Yeah, , that came from someone who sucks on the bike and wants to feel better about their crap bike speeds and efforts."

and his reply
I couldn't agree more. I ride as hard as i can and then run as hard as I can, I never sit in on the bike thinking it will make me run fatser. BS, it's a race. And I will go further to simplify your run result as not being because you biked too hard for your current run fitness but simply say your run fitness isn't there. It could be but it would require a different training protocol then what you like doing. You may want to consider using this winter to do a 2 month run focus.

of course that is in regard to me, but personally, we may not like to hear it, but it applies to 90% of us. We do not train all 3 aspects, we train 1 or 2 and survive the 3rd.

if you want a laugh, chuckle or to roll your eyes, you can read the entire report unedited and un "G" rated here

Patriot Half race report

have a nice day

Or maybe just bike they way you want and slow down your run?

What I take away from Rudy's post is that it comes down to your training.  Many people try to figure out what they did wrong in the race that caused them to do poorly.  Many people say that biking too hard during the race is what caused a bad performance.  Rudy is saying that not training enough on the bike and run is what caused it.

I think it's a little of both.  Because triathlon is really one sport, you have to balance out your strengths and weaknesses on race day based on the fitness you show up with.  However, if the OP wants to truely get better for the next HIM, he/she should not simply focus on going easier on the bike to solve the problem.  The OP should focus on improving run fitness as well.

I guess it depends on the angle you look at it or how you define went too hard on the bike.

everyone says ride conservatively, to me that means slow down, below what they trained for.

i just say do not race afraid. So what if you blow up, what if you don't??

If you bike too hard, your run will suffer.  There's really no doubting that point.

If your run training stinks, your run will suffer.  There's really no doubting that point either.

JK's advice was spot on.  Increase frequency of running, not length of long run.  Doing so will improve run fitness.  Increase intensity on the bike.  Doing so will increase bike fitness.  Do a few bricks/race rehearsals to test pacing.

Train hard and you will be able to race hard.  Good luck to you, OP!  It sounds to me that you are wiling to put in the work -- it will pay off.

The bolded statement says essentially the same thing from two different sides of the coin. Like Tri808 is saying, triathlon is about energy management. I think at IM Kansas a few minutes slower in my bike split might have gotten me 10-15 minutes back on the run. Or even more likely, a better swim, and swim training might have me on the bike fresher so that I wasn't already running a deficit when I entered T1. I can run 2 hour HM, the 2:35 or whatever it came to can be attributed, I think, to a disastrous swim which lead to an increased sense of urgency on the bike and a melt down on the run. My bike time was a great opportunity to regroup for a good run instead of counting on my bike time presumed run fitness to make up for over an hour in the water. The fact is that race sucked for me because I swam poorly and let silly things get in my head, like no wetsuit when I had convinced myself it would be WS legal, then I rode on the high side of Z2 and into Z3 so I could feel like I was racing only to trot out of T2 knowing I was already in trouble.

Hey Rudy, I read Bryan's reply in your RR previously.  While I think I agree with the sentiment Bryan was expressing, read lieterally, he is wrong (easy to take pot-shots when he can't fight back ).  Wrong about how he races and about how anybody else should race.  He rides as hard as he can and still get off and run well.  He trains for that (and limits himself from going harder by relying on HR).  Were the finish line at T2, I can guarantee you he could (and would) ride faster.  His analysis of what YOU need to do (if you want to run better) may be correct.  That is, perhaps that bike leg was well within your capability (that you, too, could have gone faster had the finish been at T2) and it is just that you don't have the run legs to put up a time that you 'think you should'.