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2012-09-09 11:15 PM

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Subject: "No Easy Day"

So did you guys watch the 60 Minutes interview? I have mixed feelings about that. I find it odd to put out a book about it so soon from those guys. Those guys don't talk about what they do.

And I'm not going to question his motives.. to be on that level takes a lot of character and dedication. He isn't just some goof ball that thinks he's "bad". So that is not it. I just think it is odd.

In his defense, this isn't just some mission, it is OBL, so that is a little different... heck even President Obama saying exactly what happened that Seal Team 6 took down OBL. And with spooks and the CIA involved... I wondered when I was watching it how much of it was misinformation?

But like he talked about the female CIA agent that was following him... first, why divulge it was a female since that is "information" and second, was it just misinformation?



Edited by powerman 2012-09-09 11:22 PM


2012-09-09 11:59 PM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
They were all doping. 
2012-09-10 7:30 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

I did not see the interview but the question in my head is why does this guy get to profit from the book while all his teammates do not? 

As far as I understand it the government has a process you have to go through to publish a book about operations like this, and that he skirted the process.

If this is indeed true he needs to be punished.  Otherwise it sets a precedent that you can do and say what you want about classified materials with impunity.

If he's not punished it might lend some credence to the theory that this is all misinformation.

Anyone see "Wag the Dog?"

2012-09-10 8:10 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
Well there's two sides to the "classified" issue.

The government is supposed to keep it secret or declassify. That's why this was an issue months ago see link http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/622606#.UE3h8Gt5mSM
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/05/23/white-house-kathryn-bigelow/

But the other issue is did Bissonette (now a private citizen) release classified information that could lead to the deaths of current operators or interfere with current missions? Fact is I have no idea what's in the book, but if the White House already gave access to the information that Bissonette uses in his book, how is this wrong?

Bissonette originally said he was going to donate all profits to the Navy SEAL Foundation. But lately the NSF has said they won't accept those funds and the word is he's giving "most" of the profits to charity. Maybe he's just saving some for legal battles now that he's been "outed" by FoxNews and threatened with legal action. If I ran a charity for wounded troops and families who lost loved ones, I'd accept money from anywhere because as soon as it came in, it was doing good. But I guess the NSF can afford to turn away funds.

As for people who link him to the Wikileaks guys, Manning released information on equipment used and being tracked into Iraq and the effectiveness and steps to stop it. He did cost several Americans their lives. He also released diplomatic information that was harmful to many of our relationships with other countries. Bissonette was releasing first hand knowledge of a completed, year-old operation that was discussed by the President, VP, and the Pentagon.

I think Bissonette and other operators were pissed that Obama and Biden kept claiming credit for the kill and that's why he wrote the book.
2012-09-10 8:11 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
Oh and on Doping, it's true. Tier 1 forces have run a doping program for quite a while. It's on Wikipedia.
2012-09-10 8:39 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
powerman - 2012-09-10 12:15 AM

In his defense, this isn't just some mission, it is OBL, so that is a little different... heck even President Obama saying exactly what happened that Seal Team 6 took down OBL. And with spooks and the CIA involved... I wondered when I was watching it how much of it was misinformation?


I disagree with the bolded.  It was just a mission.  It's what these guys do everyday, their job.  It is their job to keep their mouth's shut too.  I am sure they all had to sign a contract stating that they would keep the details of the operation quiet.  He didn't and should be punished for it.  Just my 0.02



2012-09-10 8:47 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
You sign a Non Disclosure Agreement.

I put these in the same category as No Compete Clauses.

It is highly unlikely any judge will keep you from working if you go to work for a competitor and you gave your prior employer an opportunity to match your offer. It's highly unlikely his free speech rights are trumped by an NDA he upheld while he was in the service and he kept quiet for a full year.
2012-09-10 8:47 AM
in reply to: #4403068

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:10 AM

...

I think Bissonette and other operators were pissed that Obama and Biden kept claiming credit for the kill and that's why he wrote the book.

I think this is true as well, and I also think he is making the SEALS look bad by his timing. I've read a number of other SEAL memoirs, and one of things about them is that they all seemed to discuss "old" operations. One in particular (I don't recall which one) complained about being hamstrung by the Clinton administration and not being able to take out one of the big bad guys in Somalia. But the book came out when it could not have any effects politically - i.e. during the Bush administration. Which to me, seems reasonable. It removes the whole "swiftboat" air from any complaints they have.

In addition, the whole reason he was able to go on this mission and take out Osama bin Laden was that Obama green-lighted it. And it was anything but a "slam dunk" in terms of the call by the commander-in-chief. Many top people (including Biden) have said that based on the intel at hand, they would not have made that call the same way. So while Bissonette may not like having Obama as POTUS, he still made it possible for the SEALS to do what they do best. Bissonette's book and the timing undermines the whole "quiet professional warrior" that I think of when I think of special forces operatives. 

2012-09-10 8:52 AM
in reply to: #4403135

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:47 AM You sign a Non Disclosure Agreement.

I put these in the same category as No Compete Clauses.

It is highly unlikely any judge will keep you from working if you go to work for a competitor and you gave your prior employer an opportunity to match your offer. It's highly unlikely his free speech rights are trumped by an NDA he upheld while he was in the service and he kept quiet for a full year.

Classified info does not fall under the same umbrella as NDAs.  The contract is with the government.  Free speech is limited when it can compromise national security.

Bottom line is they said keep your mouth shut and he did not.

2012-09-10 8:53 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
"In addition, the whole reason he was able to go on this mission and take out Osama bin Laden was that Obama green-lighted it. And it was anything but a "slam dunk" in terms of the call by the commander-in-chief."

I've said it before, this is just hogwash. These operators run ops with a few hours notice or less on questionable intel. In this case, they built a mockup of the compound and the chairman of the joint chiefs came to watch the last run through.

There's not a single president who wouldn't have given the order.

There is no political risk from a dead special ops team or a mission that turns into a dry hole. It happens all the time. But it's usually a "training exercise" when it happens.
2012-09-10 8:54 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

Well in the interview... he said all the right things... no classified information, he claims he has the support of his peers... he wanted to get truth out about what happened for the families of 911... they do this everyday, nothing special about him, he was just the guy that got called along with 30 others. He said there was no classified info in the book at all and that he didn't give any important details... but even the interview was pretty detailed and I just thought that it didn't "feel" right.

I do want to read thr book though... is that bad? 



2012-09-10 8:58 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
"Bottom line is they said keep your mouth shut and he did not."

Unless he's still receiving pay or benefits from the government, the contract is over. The DD214 means you are free to go, Honorably.

If he was an officer it would be a different call, but he was enlisted. He doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president like Officers do. Now that he's out, he's free to write the book.

If he actually does jail time or pays a fine, I'll give you $5, but it won't happen. It won't because any NDA (I do know what I'm talking about with this) isn't worth the paper it's printed on when you're no longer in the service.
2012-09-10 9:23 AM
in reply to: #4403171

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 7:58 AM "Bottom line is they said keep your mouth shut and he did not."

Unless he's still receiving pay or benefits from the government, the contract is over. The DD214 means you are free to go, Honorably.

If he was an officer it would be a different call, but he was enlisted. He doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president like Officers do. Now that he's out, he's free to write the book.

If he actually does jail time or pays a fine, I'll give you $5, but it won't happen. It won't because any NDA (I do know what I'm talking about with this) isn't worth the paper it's printed on when you're no longer in the service.

Not even close...national security is national security... you are talking apples and Mars. And those guys ARE the pointy end of the sword...they pride themselves on doing the very things nobody wants to know we do... they are indeed assasins.

2012-09-10 9:27 AM
in reply to: #4403171

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:58 AM

"Bottom line is they said keep your mouth shut and he did not."

Unless he's still receiving pay or benefits from the government, the contract is over. The DD214 means you are free to go, Honorably.

If he was an officer it would be a different call, but he was enlisted. He doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president like Officers do. Now that he's out, he's free to write the book.


No. I have no idea about this particular instance but what you wrote is untrue entirely. The briefings he signed for clearance as well as internal stuff all say, literally, until death.

2012-09-10 9:30 AM
in reply to: #4402812

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
They're the dagger you pull out and use in your opponents eye. The spear is part of a cumbersome weapon which they're not.

If your question is "is this the conduct expected from a SEAL?" then I'd say No.
If your question is "does he have the right to do this?" I say absolutely. Richard Marcinko made a fortune off his stories about the SEALs, Jesse the Governor made a fortune off his status as a former SEAL. It's well within his rights. Again, if it ain't, I'll pay you $5 when he goes to Jail or pays a fine.

2012-09-10 9:30 AM
in reply to: #4403137

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
gearboy - 2012-09-10 7:47 AM

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:10 AM

...

I think Bissonette and other operators were pissed that Obama and Biden kept claiming credit for the kill and that's why he wrote the book.

I think this is true as well, and I also think he is making the SEALS look bad by his timing. I've read a number of other SEAL memoirs, and one of things about them is that they all seemed to discuss "old" operations. One in particular (I don't recall which one) complained about being hamstrung by the Clinton administration and not being able to take out one of the big bad guys in Somalia. But the book came out when it could not have any effects politically - i.e. during the Bush administration. Which to me, seems reasonable. It removes the whole "swiftboat" air from any complaints they have.

In addition, the whole reason he was able to go on this mission and take out Osama bin Laden was that Obama green-lighted it. And it was anything but a "slam dunk" in terms of the call by the commander-in-chief. Many top people (including Biden) have said that based on the intel at hand, they would not have made that call the same way. So while Bissonette may not like having Obama as POTUS, he still made it possible for the SEALS to do what they do best. Bissonette's book and the timing undermines the whole "quiet professional warrior" that I think of when I think of special forces operatives. 

And I thought it was odd about that too... he said he wanted it to come out on 9/11 for it's significance. He said it was not politicaly motivated in any way ans said, "If those crazies up there on either side of the isle want to turn this into something political (for their gain) then shame on them".

So he said the right things, but just as we are now, we are discussing it and the election is coming up. People will talk and make what ever they want out of it... if anything... it just seems too soon. Just like you said, others have written books, but it was long after the conflict was over. We are still in a war, and we are still engaging Al qaeda.



2012-09-10 9:31 AM
in reply to: #4403232

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
powerman - 2012-09-10 9:23 AM

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 7:58 AM "Bottom line is they said keep your mouth shut and he did not."

Unless he's still receiving pay or benefits from the government, the contract is over. The DD214 means you are free to go, Honorably.

If he was an officer it would be a different call, but he was enlisted. He doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president like Officers do. Now that he's out, he's free to write the book.

If he actually does jail time or pays a fine, I'll give you $5, but it won't happen. It won't because any NDA (I do know what I'm talking about with this) isn't worth the paper it's printed on when you're no longer in the service.

Not even close...national security is national security... you are talking apples and Mars. And those guys ARE the pointy end of the sword...they pride themselves on doing the very things nobody wants to know we do... they are indeed assasins.



Agreed. I don't know that nobody wants to know we do this -- I'm all for knowing how many bad guys they kill!
2012-09-10 9:34 AM
in reply to: #4403157

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 7:53 AM There is no political risk from a dead special ops team or a mission that turns into a dry hole. It happens all the time. But it's usually a "training exercise" when it happens.

Ask Carter how well dead special ops guys worked out for him.

2012-09-10 9:38 AM
in reply to: #4403242

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

DanielG - 2012-09-10 10:27 AM
GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:58 AM "Bottom line is they said keep your mouth shut and he did not."

Unless he's still receiving pay or benefits from the government, the contract is over. The DD214 means you are free to go, Honorably.

If he was an officer it would be a different call, but he was enlisted. He doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president like Officers do. Now that he's out, he's free to write the book.
No. I have no idea about this particular instance but what you wrote is untrue entirely. The briefings he signed for clearance as well as internal stuff all say, literally, until death.

Yep.  Otherwise what's the point of even having classified information.

Much of Marcinko's information is obtainable via the FOIA, hence not "classified"

I'm not taking your $5 bet because I agree, I doubt he'll be punished.  Doesn't change the fact that I think he should be.

I'm a civilian (never was in the military) but I have a signed contact with the CIA to never release some information I obtained while interviewing in McClean.  To be honest it's not that interesting anyway and I doubt anything would ever happen even if I did.  However to say that it' my 1st Amendment right to tell it is wrong.



Edited by TriRSquared 2012-09-10 9:41 AM
2012-09-10 9:41 AM
in reply to: #4403262

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
powerman - 2012-09-10 10:34 AM

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 7:53 AM There is no political risk from a dead special ops team or a mission that turns into a dry hole. It happens all the time. But it's usually a "training exercise" when it happens.

Ask Carter how well dead special ops guys worked out for him.



Desert One was quite the public explosion of news about a clandestine op, though.

Then again, they did release the hostages as soon as Reagan was elected.


2012-09-10 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
DanielG - 2012-09-10 8:41 AM
powerman - 2012-09-10 10:34 AM

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 7:53 AM There is no political risk from a dead special ops team or a mission that turns into a dry hole. It happens all the time. But it's usually a "training exercise" when it happens.

Ask Carter how well dead special ops guys worked out for him.

Desert One was quite the public explosion of news about a clandestine op, though. Then again, they did release the hostages as soon as Reagan was elected.

I just never did understand the whole thing.... Carter took all the blame for a failed mission... like he personally crashed the helicopter. I mean he authorized action and they happened to crash. It was wierd how it was all his fault... I was in H.S. though and certainly not up on political affairs so maybe it was just my perception.



Edited by powerman 2012-09-10 9:53 AM


2012-09-10 9:53 AM
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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:53 AM "In addition, the whole reason he was able to go on this mission and take out Osama bin Laden was that Obama green-lighted it. And it was anything but a "slam dunk" in terms of the call by the commander-in-chief."

I've said it before, this is just hogwash. These operators run ops with a few hours notice or less on questionable intel. In this case, they built a mockup of the compound and the chairman of the joint chiefs came to watch the last run through.

There's not a single president who wouldn't have given the order.

There is no political risk from a dead special ops team or a mission that turns into a dry hole. It happens all the time. But it's usually a "training exercise" when it happens.

Not at all true. And from everything I have read, one of the frustrations that special ops forces routinely deal with is being told NOT to go ahead on a target they believe they can achieve.

What IS true is that after the fact, everyone can make the "right call" - "Oh yeah, we should never have gone into Iraq", or "Oh yeah, we totally knew we had ObL". But at the time, Biden and Robert Gates (secretary of defense) argued AGAINST going in. And for potentially good reasons - we were going into another country without their knowledge or approval. Had things gone south, and it was either NOT the right target, or the SEALS failed to achieve their objective, or were killed, it would have been a complete disaster. And the Republicans would have been all over it.

2012-09-10 9:57 AM
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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
TriRSquared - 2012-09-10 10:38 AM

DanielG - 2012-09-10 10:27 AM
GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:58 AM "Bottom line is they said keep your mouth shut and he did not."

Unless he's still receiving pay or benefits from the government, the contract is over. The DD214 means you are free to go, Honorably.

If he was an officer it would be a different call, but he was enlisted. He doesn't serve at the pleasure of the president like Officers do. Now that he's out, he's free to write the book.
No. I have no idea about this particular instance but what you wrote is untrue entirely. The briefings he signed for clearance as well as internal stuff all say, literally, until death.

Yep.  Otherwise what's the point of even having classified information.

Much of Marcinko's information is obtainable via the FOIA, hence not "classified"

I'm not taking your $5 bet because I agree, I doubt he'll be punished.  Doesn't change the fact that I think he should be.

I'm a civilian (never was in the military) but I have a signed contact with the CIA to never release some information I obtained while interviewing in McClean.  To be honest it's not that interesting anyway and I doubt anything would ever happen even if I did.  However to say that it' my 1st Amendment right to tell it is wrong.

I'm with TriRSquared here (here comes the zombiepocalypse!). I had an office manager whose husband was in the navy on a nuclear sub as an enlisted man. He was shocked when some movie or book had come out that showed some details that had been classifed when he served, since he knew no one was supposed to be talking (and he had been a civilian for at least a decade or two). 

2012-09-10 9:59 AM
in reply to: #4403305

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
powerman - 2012-09-10 10:52 AM

DanielG - 2012-09-10 8:41 AM
powerman - 2012-09-10 10:34 AM

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 7:53 AM There is no political risk from a dead special ops team or a mission that turns into a dry hole. It happens all the time. But it's usually a "training exercise" when it happens.

Ask Carter how well dead special ops guys worked out for him.

Desert One was quite the public explosion of news about a clandestine op, though. Then again, they did release the hostages as soon as Reagan was elected.

I just never did understand the whole thing.... Carter took all the blame for a failed mission... like he personally crashed the helicopter. I mean he authorized action and they happened to crash. It was wierd how it was all his fault... I was in H.S. though and certainly not up on political affairs so maybe it was just my perception.



I believe Carter took the blame for the hostages not being released and thus creating the necessity of trying to spring them.

Iran figured with a Democrat in the White House, the US was the proverbial paper tiger and wouldn't do anything. NOT starting a debate about whether they were right or not but that's what they believed.

I do believe that was what Carter was blamed for. Had it not been for a weak foreign policy especially regarding terrorists, the whole debacle would have never been.

2012-09-10 10:43 AM
in reply to: #4403307

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Subject: RE: "No Easy Day"
gearboy - 2012-09-10 8:53 AM

GomesBolt - 2012-09-10 9:53 AM "In addition, the whole reason he was able to go on this mission and take out Osama bin Laden was that Obama green-lighted it. And it was anything but a "slam dunk" in terms of the call by the commander-in-chief."

I've said it before, this is just hogwash. These operators run ops with a few hours notice or less on questionable intel. In this case, they built a mockup of the compound and the chairman of the joint chiefs came to watch the last run through.

There's not a single president who wouldn't have given the order.

There is no political risk from a dead special ops team or a mission that turns into a dry hole. It happens all the time. But it's usually a "training exercise" when it happens.

Not at all true. And from everything I have read, one of the frustrations that special ops forces routinely deal with is being told NOT to go ahead on a target they believe they can achieve.

What IS true is that after the fact, everyone can make the "right call" - "Oh yeah, we should never have gone into Iraq", or "Oh yeah, we totally knew we had ObL". But at the time, Biden and Robert Gates (secretary of defense) argued AGAINST going in. And for potentially good reasons - we were going into another country without their knowledge or approval. Had things gone south, and it was either NOT the right target, or the SEALS failed to achieve their objective, or were killed, it would have been a complete disaster. And the Republicans would have been all over it.

Loose lips sink ships.

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